criterionforum.org

For those interested, I just published the first video in a series I hope to undertake, examining various films from a historical, technical and analytical perspective. This first video is a comparison of the two different cuts of The Passion of Joan of Arc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRY2Su ... e=youtu.be

Very disappointed the Lo Duca version isn’t included like in the MoC package. Otherwise looks like a great package. I’ve been eager for a Blu-Ray or this for a long time now.

I think I'll end up double-dipping on this one... How's the Tybjerg commentary?

Brianruns10 wrote:For those interested, I just published the first video in a series I hope to undertake, examining various films from a historical, technical and analytical perspective. This first video is a comparison of the two different cuts of The Passion of Joan of Arc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRY2Su ... e=youtu.be

Just wanted to say I enjoyed this very much

Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

Better than nothing?

Alternate presentation of the film at 20 frames per second with original Danish intertitles

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?

kcota17 wrote:

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?

Not sure! But I thought the restoration and okd Crit used French intertitles, and it was the MOC version that used Danish ones?

Perhaps the scores were written, performed, and recorded with the film playing at 24 fps?

Werewolf by Night wrote:Perhaps the scores were written, performed, and recorded with the film playing at 24 fps?

Yes that also. But I imagine the image quality wouldn’t be different. So I wonder what score will be used. Maybe silent like Dreyer’s intentions?

kcota17 wrote:

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?

Probably because the 20fps one is a fresh image harvest with no duplicated frames and the 24 one was licensed with duplicate frames embedded on the sr tape.

Also the audio would be an issue.

Both the Guamont/Janus restoration and the MoC restoration come from the same scan, as far as I can tell from the "source" descriptions in the MoC booklet and the Janus press pack (with a LOT more work done by Gaumont, though). So I would assume the French intertitles are reconstructions, not from the scan itself, which would have the Danish intertitles. And it would make sense that Gaumont would privilege the French intertitles for its restoration, which it then supplied to Janus... It definitely seems unlikely that Janus would license the less-cleaned-up MoC restoration just to include a 20fps version, so I feel like it has to be from the new restoration... Then all they have to do is license the score that matches the 20fps version and reinsert the original intertitles. So I guess the question for now is which is Janus more likely to have done:
-licensed the 20fps version from Eureka,
-reinserted the Danish intertitles form the original scan into the Gaumont restoration
-is including a different (raw, unrestored?) scan at 20fps


From Janus: "The restoration was created from a 2K scan of a duplicate negative made from the Danish Film Institute’s nitrate copy of Carl Theodor Dreyer’s original cut."
From MoC: "...sourced form a 35mm dupe negative made from the original 1928 Danish preservation materials held at the DFI. The film was scanned at 2K resolution..."

Very excited for this. That said, I’m disappointed that Loren Connors’s score isn’t included on this version - that was one of my favorite things about MoC’s treatment of the film.

As several of you have pointed out, I’m sure it has more to do with issues related to frame rate more than anything else.

I contacted Criterion to encourage them to add the Connors score, if at all possible. As someone who is usually disappointed by avant-garde musicians performing to silent films, I was really delighted with Connors's work, which is the only score to this film I've heard that even remotely does it justice. The "Visions of Light" oratorio seems to me a complete travesty--a showboating score that continually competes with and imposes a unrelenting and unsubtle "intensity" onto the film. I think it's a shame that there are many folks who seem to think it's the definitive score to Dreyer's film.

whaleallright wrote: The "Visions of Light" oratorio seems to me a complete travesty--a showboating score that continually competes with and imposes a unrelenting and unsubtle "intensity" onto the film. I think it's a shame that there are many folks who seem to think it's the definitive score to Dreyer's film.

When I first saw this I hated the Visions of Light score so much I muted the film. It was absolutely insufferable and I'm sure it created a bad first impression of the entire feature. I hate the Visions of Light Score.

So, what's the definitive version to listen to, not assuming the Connors score will be added? Visions of Light is apparently terrible, so that's out the window for now...

:-k

Silence

I never watched the movie with any soundtrack. I still haven't heard Visions of Light! It works really well, and it's pretty much the only silent film I watch in complete silence by choice (instead of because the chosen soundtrack is terrible or because there's none, but it's rare)

Another vote for complete silence. This is probably the only silent film (or film) I would say that about.

Silent at 20fps.

Am I the only barbarian here who actually likes watching it with Voices of Light?

solaris72 wrote:Am I the only barbarian here who actually likes watching it with Voices of Light?

Yes.

I like it, but I wouldn't necessarily call it my favorite. I value having the option to watch it that way, but I also never imagined that Criterion's release would render the MoC superfluous. I'm happy to own both.

I watched it that way in 1999 and I thought I liked it, but reading this thread I now doubt myself. Maybe I was just a callow, untutored, unwashed youth.

solaris72 wrote:Am I the only barbarian here who actually likes watching it with Voices of Light?

Add me to that list, and I've been waiting for this Criterion upgrade expressly for that reason.