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My first reactions to this news are "that sounds pointless" and "I will probably delight in buying every title".

This is needed, but Vinegar Syndrome also has a habit of building big expectations with vague announcements and then releasing titles that don’t really meet those expectations.

Matt wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:50 pm This is needed, but Vinegar Syndrome also has a habit of building big expectations with vague announcements and then releasing titles that don’t really meet those expectations.

This was/is exactly my thoughts with Art Label. A big setup and a fine payoff.

It could also somewhat describe their sadly short-lived Etiquette Pictures sub-label, every title from which was at least interesting and I’m not sure were ever released by anyone else.

Matt wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:50 pm This is needed, but Vinegar Syndrome also has a habit of building big expectations with vague announcements and then releasing titles that don’t really meet those expectations.

The cynic in me thinks they also have a habit of creating sublabels so they can exclude releases from their yearly subscription package.

dwk wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:26 pm

Matt wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:50 pm This is needed, but Vinegar Syndrome also has a habit of building big expectations with vague announcements and then releasing titles that don’t really meet those expectations.

The cynic in me thinks they also have a habit of creating sublabels so they can exclude releases from their yearly subscription package.

The optimist in me says elsewise, I like to think that they’re doing it, to release stuff from there archive that they feel doesn’t belong in their mainline catalogue since they’ve become stuff a big company. VSA is probably the only exception but maybe it was just to limit the amount of mainline releases they were dealing with and also to highlight the titles from the VHS that were more action orientated. VSU is a sub label that feels more cheesy stuff and more nostalgic/mainstream releases that would be too big for a standard VS release. VSL is home to more sophisticated oddball/classic era obscurities. And Degausser for SOV cinema, which VS never did except under their partner labels. So this just seems like another attempt to release works that don’t suite the typical VS release with some fancy new packaging and possibly more analysis. God I’m getting my hopes up again.

Some more about the cinematographe sublabel, "each limited release will be housed in a specially designed, cloth-bound, media book with embossed foil titles and custom molded disc trays accompanied by a slipcase featuring newly comissioned art AND an individually numbered J-Card"

And there will "eventually" be cheaper standard editions offered.

Is this our chance to finally get a 4K UHD of Border Radio?

What I'm thinking is that at some point, when you opened your line-up 5 times, maybe you should just consider your identity isn't that narrow anymore and accept it, instead of trying to separate everything into more and more sublabels.

I think they want to keep the steady income of the VS subscriptions (which cost $1000!) without subscribers grousing about getting films outside the generic parameters of what they thought they were signing up for.

dwk wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:12 pm Some more about the cinematographe sublabel, "each limited release will be housed in a specially designed, cloth-bound, media book with embossed foil titles and custom molded disc trays accompanied by a slipcase featuring newly comissioned art AND an individually numbered J-Card"

And there will "eventually" be cheaper standard editions offered.

I like slipcovers more than most here, but I just don't understand this kinda stuff. Who needs executive gift packaging for what will likely be some piece of shit grindhouse movie or a b-string studio pic? What can you even do with a slipcover that fancy-- you'll only see the spine 99.99999% of your life anyways

domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:11 pm

dwk wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:12 pm Some more about the cinematographe sublabel, "each limited release will be housed in a specially designed, cloth-bound, media book with embossed foil titles and custom molded disc trays accompanied by a slipcase featuring newly comissioned art AND an individually numbered J-Card"

And there will "eventually" be cheaper standard editions offered.

I like slipcovers more than most here, but I just don't understand this kinda stuff. Who needs executive gift packaging for what will likely be some piece of shit grindhouse movie or a b-string studio pic? What can you even do with a slipcover that fancy-- you'll only see the spine 99.99999% of your life anyways

1. The FOMO urge, a standard slip isn’t that important, but include an exclusive book with some good criticism in it in a fancy package, that gets people foaming at the mouth. I’m like 80% positive that’s why their Villages of the Damned and Piotr Szulkin releases sold out so quick.
2. The book itself, a good booklet can not only properly critique a work, but provide historical background and set a discussion about the work. It’s a big hook, especially to those with busier schedules who don’t have the commentary to listen to a commentary track. Plus it can also provide some archival media too, whether it be official posters, newspaper interviews with the director, even press material. Also I’m not sure it will be grindhouse films if the label of films from auteurs during the New Hollywood era/The 80s and 90s indie boom. Who knows, we might even get Looking for Mr. Goodbar from this label.

Is a Mediabook an actual book, or is it a digipak with booklet pages stapled/glued to it? Because that's the "Mediabooks" I recall

domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:32 pm Is a Mediabook an actual book, or is it a digipak with booklet pages stapled/glued to it? Because that's the "Mediabooks" I recall

I believe it’s similar to a digipak but with a sturdier and thicker exterior and some with the booklet pages that is made to resemble an actual book and without the casing of a digipack iirc. Basically, if you own a digibook, like the ones Warner released with their old Blu-Rays, you have the experience of a mediabook.

What really confuses me is when people seek and pay the most $ for slips that are just a reprint of the cover and spine, while some of the cooler art designs spark less enthusiasm. At least VS+sublabels make a slipcover an actual thing to appreciate on its own

dwk wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:26 pm

Matt wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:50 pm This is needed, but Vinegar Syndrome also has a habit of building big expectations with vague announcements and then releasing titles that don’t really meet those expectations.

The cynic in me thinks they also have a habit of creating sublabels so they can exclude releases from their yearly subscription package.

considering this is the same label that asks Orbit and Diabolik to not carry competing titles* (such as the Radiance box of Szulkin or The Horrible Dr. Hichcock), I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at all unfortunately. they're diluting their subscription and on top of that, I'm sure the packaging on these A24-style releases means they're gonna cost a pretty penny. it reeks of cardboard fetishism to me, which given posts on reddit and the other forum...I understand what they're doing, even if I don't agree with it.

*-that only ends up hurting the consumer (who have to potentially buy direct, paying higher shipping rates) or the independent retailers (as the consumer may buy off Amazon or something instead). I don't think I'm alone when I say that one way or another, I will get the edition of a film I want, whatever it takes. as many of us did for Napoleon, Dawn of the Dead, etc. Vinegar Syndrome would be the same people to demonize the producers that keep the rights out of the grasp of them, but then they turn around and are upset when a competing edition is released in region B

I've never posted about this and it annoys me, so I'll use this space to just openly plead for an answer as to why they think this is acceptable. they sold out of their Szulkin set via the LE slipcover, and I'm sure they'll sell out of Hichcock too. why not let these stores carry these titles? anyway..

I definitely think it’s scummy for Vinegar Syndrome to ask stores not to carry competitor titles and it’s most going to affect the selling rates of this titles since large chunk of American Region B collectors shop at those stores. However Justin LaLiberty on that forum site, said they will the size of regular editions and that there might be standards in the future so it feels like the VS Archive releases line with the packaging of a VSU, and if we’re considering VSU prices, it shouldn’t be over the $45 limit (though those are 4Ks so chances are, you’re paying even less).

exactly, I think a lot of us have moved our business to the big three (Orbit, Diabolik, and Grindhouse) and we're past the days of rarewaves or Amazon. I'd love to support the UK labels more directly (and plan to be getting the Radiance subscription), but there were so many issues with shipping transatlantic that it's just substantially easier to purchase it from one of these stores (I grabbed both of the Radiance releases from Grindhouse, despite being generally loyal to Orbit)

but that is good about the standard releases - I just fear that the actual written scholarly material is going to be exclusive to those releases, and booklets are a pretty key thing for me personally. while I'm here, does anyone know if the standard edition of the Szulkin Tetralogy comes with a booklet? I may be grabbing it if I like the films for MichaelB's set-exclusive track (that no one gave him feedback on!) but wanna be prepared if I'm really paying $32 for his track

I think the booklet was exclusive to the limited edition.

If you want to save a few bucks, Hamilton Book has the standard release of the Szulkin Tetralogy for $24.95.

ryannichols7 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:51 am but that is good about the standard releases - I just fear that the actual written scholarly material is going to be exclusive to those releases, and booklets are a pretty key thing for me personally. while I'm here, does anyone know if the standard edition of the Szulkin Tetralogy comes with a booklet? I may be grabbing it if I like the films for MichaelB's set-exclusive track (that no one gave him feedback on!) but wanna be prepared if I'm really paying $32 for his track

I have the Szulkin limited edition and the book they packaged would just not be able to properly fit in the standard case, so unfortunately the answer to that question is no, which is a real shame because the Szulkin interview is maybe the best feature on that release besides the Michael B. commentary which I wrote about in the Economic Extras.

ryannichols7 wrote:while I'm here, does anyone know if the standard edition of the Szulkin Tetralogy comes with a booklet?

I have it in front of me and there is nothing in the case except the two discs and a reversible sleeve.

I was cautiously excited about this new line until I read about the packaging. I’ve never been one for digibooks, mediabooks, steelbooks, slipcovers, or even your basic digipak, so I’m less likely to take a risk on an unfamiliar film if it’s only available in some frilly edition.

TechnicolorAcid wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:30 pm

domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:11 pm

dwk wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:12 pm Some more about the cinematographe sublabel, "each limited release will be housed in a specially designed, cloth-bound, media book with embossed foil titles and custom molded disc trays accompanied by a slipcase featuring newly comissioned art AND an individually numbered J-Card"

And there will "eventually" be cheaper standard editions offered.

I like slipcovers more than most here, but I just don't understand this kinda stuff. Who needs executive gift packaging for what will likely be some piece of shit grindhouse movie or a b-string studio pic? What can you even do with a slipcover that fancy-- you'll only see the spine 99.99999% of your life anyways

1. The FOMO urge, a standard slip isn’t that important, but include an exclusive book with some good criticism in it in a fancy package, that gets people foaming at the mouth. I’m like 80% positive that’s why their Villages of the Damned and Piotr Szulkin releases sold out so quick.
2. The book itself, a good booklet can not only properly critique a work, but provide historical background and set a discussion about the work. It’s a big hook, especially to those with busier schedules who don’t have the commentary to listen to a commentary track. Plus it can also provide some archival media too, whether it be official posters, newspaper interviews with the director, even press material. Also I’m not sure it will be grindhouse films if the label of films from auteurs during the New Hollywood era/The 80s and 90s indie boom. Who knows, we might even get Looking for Mr. Goodbar from this label.

My 'limited edition' widescreen VHS copy of the first X-Files film (numbered "0229 of 1000") is sure to be appreciating in value as we speak.

Matt wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 4:43 am I have it in front of me and there is nothing in the case except the two discs and a reversible sleeve.

TechnicolorAcid wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 4:14 am I have the Szulkin limited edition and the book they packaged would just not be able to properly fit in the standard case, so unfortunately the answer to that question is no, which is a real shame because the Szulkin interview is maybe the best feature on that release besides the Michael B. commentary which I wrote about in the Economic Extras.

dwk wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 4:10 am I think the booklet was exclusive to the limited edition.

If you want to save a few bucks, Hamilton Book has the standard release of the Szulkin Tetralogy for $24.95.

woof. so yes, paying $24.95 for the commentary basically - which I don't mind doing, but the booklet would've really sweetened the deal there. I did forget Jonathan Owen is on there though, and I usually enjoy his contributions, so that helps a bit. shame about the Szulkin interview, but luckily Radiance has a few on their set

domino harvey wrote:Is a Mediabook an actual book, or is it a digipak with booklet pages stapled/glued to it? Because that's the "Mediabooks" I recall

Mediabooks are very similar to digibooks, ie digipacks with booklets that you can't separate.

The hint for the first title in the Cinématographe line:

...a significant Paramount film which we’ve upgraded to 4K UHD; a stirring feature directorial debut which has inexplicably been overlooked on disc.