criterionforum.org

Kino Insider wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:14 pm The dupe negative is in the US and the original camera negative is in France, like we said, we would've done whatever that made him happy.

He's made it clear that he's unhappy with the master you're releasing. The DP has too. You've clearly not done whatever would make him happy, you've done the opposite – to your agenda and timeline.

Kino Insider wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:16 pm Once we knew we couldn't even include a trailer and I knew how he hated chapters, I asked my boss if we could include 1 chapter every minute, instead of our usual 8 chapters, but he said no.

Damn, that would have been an epic troll on the director you claim to be trying to respect!

It was clearly a joke

It's a joke, sure - but I guess I'm rather suspicious of why there's this winking sense of hostility when Lynch owes them absolutely nothing

Kino really need to stop digging themselves in further, and these passive-aggressive "jokes" aren't helping.

Meanwhile, as expected, blu-ray.com's members find this marvelous and don't believe it's based on the known pre-existing HD master.
KILL
ME
NOW
It's not like it's rocket science, FFS.

The label is lying, the filmmaker is lying, and the cinematographer is lying - this transfer is pure gold!

What always surprises me most (I love my undying naivety when it comes to mankind) is the endless inability of some dedicated board's members to do what simply amounts to a A/B comparison and check if that's indeed 2 declinations of the same older master.
Again : not rocket science, but I guess we can't always have a Geoff D chiming in every thread.
Anyway, certainly not a release I'll die on a hill for.

EDIT : I don't think it's mentioned here (and clearly not on blu-ray.com) but the MK2 disc seems much cleaner than the Kino one. As a whole though, the Kino disc has quite a lot of dust specks. Not something bothering me personally as a whole (I'm more bothered in general by wobbling), but a comparison element nevertheless. Of course, Svet doesn't mention this at all in his review.

Kino's respect for David Lynch doesn't extend beyond their bottom line. Best to stick to dead directors. They can't complain after all.

Ashirg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:26 pm

domino harvey wrote:It’s worth noting that since Kino Lorber Studio Classics began five years ago, none of their releases have gone out of print. I strongly suspect their license window for this is longer than three years

John Ford's The Hurricane is OOP, but I think that's it.

That was a Samuel Goldwyn title that should've never been licensed to us, the studio no longer had the rights, the rights to the SG library had gone to Warner Brothers.

peerpee wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Kino Insider wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:11 pm

peerpee wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:58 pm Hear hear. Kino should have pulled it.

Why? We were happy with the transfer and it'll be a very good selling title for the label.

Because the director is alive and he's unhappy with it.

Your main concern is very evident: that "it'll be a very good selling title for the label". Why is your happiness and your sales more important than what the director wants?

We tried to work with the director and he was not interested. We had already paid the advance and spent money creating extras. We release more movies "for the love of film" than any other label out there, we take chances on films no one else would, but we're still a business and sometimes we need to make money.

You bumbled into the whole thing like a bunch of rank amateurs.

The number of titles you release doesn’t make you better than any other label.

Your label’s reputation will be tarnished by pointing to your bottom line. A rubbish excuse for proceeding.

peerpee wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:54 pm You bumbled into the whole thing like a bunch of rank amateurs.

The number of titles you release doesn’t make you better than any other label.

Your label’s reputation will be tarnished by pointing to your bottom line. A rubbish excuse for proceeding.

That's your opinion and I could care less about what you think.

Your classic studio releases leave little to be desired, to be fair, and you definitely work hard to fill a gap there the studios aren't interested in filling.

But you made an assumption that you didn't need Lynch's approval and you commissioned extras that he has vetoed in the past on releases of his other films for specific reasons. Lynch evidently considered that in and of itself disrespectful and unprofessional behaviour, and it's happened often enough in the past that he's had enough of it. You ignore his wishes out of indifference at worst and carelessness at best (neither looks good), and then act surprised that he is not interested in working with you? Could he have overlooked it? He could have, but I suspect he was reluctant to do so because it'd possibly encourage other labels to engage in the same attitude in the future.

Kino Insider wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:05 am

peerpee wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:54 pm You bumbled into the whole thing like a bunch of rank amateurs.

The number of titles you release doesn’t make you better than any other label.

Your label’s reputation will be tarnished by pointing to your bottom line. A rubbish excuse for proceeding.

That's your opinion and I could care less about what you think.

Then you wouldn't have replied to them. Actually you shouldn't have replied in the thread, period. No one's impressed by your 12 year old's "last laugh" mentality.

Kino Insider, while I don't share peerpee's forceful disdain for this release or your label, you might actually want to care what he has to say given that he's worked at and with multiple British boutique labels to produce quality releases for many years. The name-calling directed at you was out of line, though, and has been deleted.

And black&huge is right, best to let some of these negative comments slide and not engage with schoolyard retorts. You represent a label that is attracting numerous detractors post by post, there are not going to be many voices willing to stick up for you when you merit it if you continue like this...

One more comment from me to KL Insider: you say you were willing to do everything he wanted. I don't know if you guys realise(d) but with these extras you did the very opposite of what he wanted. Again, whether that happened out of a blatant disregard for his wishes or carelessness arising out of a desire to hit the original or revised deadlines, only you can answer. But I think you've got to accept that while this final release is clearly not what you wanted it to be, the bucket for that ultimately still stops with you. It may be harsh but maybe you can learn a thing or two from this.

domino harvey wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:14 am Kino Insider, while I don't share peerpee's forceful disdain for this release or your label, you might actually want to care what he has to say given that he's worked at and with multiple British boutique labels to produce quality releases for many years.

And black&huge is right, best to let some of these negative comments slide and not engage with schoolyard retorts. You represent a label that is attracting numerous detractors post by post, there are not going to be many voices willing to stick up for you when you merit it if you continue like this...

I understand what you're saying and I'll stay away from this thread, but you don't see me going on other label's threads or the ones peepee works for and criticizing their release. It's very unprofessional, especially for someone who works in the industry. We see people from other labels chiming in here and on the other forums and they should all be ashamed of themselves. You also need to talk to these tough guys behind their keyboards and not take sides.

Finch wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:28 am One more comment from me to KL Insider: you say you were willing to do everything he wanted. I don't know if you guys realise(d) but with these extras you did the very opposite of what he wanted. Again, whether that happened out of a blatant disregard for his wishes or carelessness arising out of a desire to hit the original or revised deadlines, only you can answer. But I think you've got to accept that while this final release is clearly not what you wanted it to be, the bucket for that ultimately still stops with you. It may be harsh but maybe you can learn a thing or two from this.

We're happy with our decision. We did everything humanly possible to work with him, we had no idea he has issues with commentaries and would've been okay with dropping it if he was willing to work with on a new transfer and newly produced extras.

Kino Lorber Insider, I don't think you need to stay out of this thread. I give you props for coming into an openly hostile environment to defend your label... but at the same time you kind of chuck all those goodwill bonus points out the window when you respond to members with anything but respect, even in response to disrespectful or negative posts. But I doubt anything you can say will convince the vast majority of this forum that sees this release at best as a bad idea to change their mind, so I'd suggest you instead weigh how best to exert your energy with regards to this release and your label

And just a reminder to all members here: name-calling of other members is not permitted by anyone. If you feel the need to call someone else a name, please count to ten and step away from the keyboard/phone for a bit instead.

I kind of feel like I'm just talking to a brick wall here. I don't know about anyone else but I think this thread has outlived its usefulness for me personally.

The worst you can accuse Lynch of, given what (mostly one-sided) information we have, is that he is sticking to his principles (and let's remember: we do not have official confirmation from Lynch's team that they even had an offer for a new transfer). Even a cursory glance at his previous history with boutique labels or a phone call to your competitors could have clued any licensor in to what's acceptable or encouraged them to establish what exactly needs to be done.

This is clumsy stuff from this disc's producers. The film's director wasn't having any of it. Them's the breaks.

If Kino is sub-licensee, Universal must be licensee. Who is licensor? Is it the company that holds the ocn in Europe?
Universal has rights to distribute home video in North America (DVD Region 1 or BD Region A). Is that correct?
Perhaps they should have done a 4k resto many yrs ago for a proper BD release.
But they still would have needed Lynch's permission as director, correct? That may not have ever been forthcoming for Universal.
Lynch seems to be trying to sandbag the Kino BD in order to preserve sales for a planned resto and release in a 2-3 years with Criterion.

The issue is always the same : any insider can go in the hostility to legitimately defend its position and you can even do that by simply saying "well, we disagree", but you don't do tht by saying "I couldn't care less about what you say" (especially when it's peerpee). That's been a recurring part of KL's communication problems, and one showing here again. People are very willing to engage with labels to discuss debatable releases or choices, but they do prefer when it's a 2-way street and they're not looked down upon. And while I understand having certainly often to deal with people thinking they know stuff while they actually don't, it serves no-one to assume that's the first guess to do because all you'll do is frustrate the ones that do really know (sometimes a lot) while looking for everyone like a disdainful person.

So again : the message is OK, but phrasing it this way isn't. Though I always love a good sophism like about "tough guys behind keyboards" (I'm in France, what do you expect me to do ? fly in the US to say stuff to passioned strangers face to face ?).

Br.com’s review says this is a newer master than the one used for previous French (and german) releases? Is that correct? I thought it was the same master but with further colour correction work performed?