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As a side note: Recently a very rare TV-interview with JR done after "Merry-Go-Round" showed up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9TVWIR ... archivesRC

Michael Kerpan wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:02 pm I just hope this gets an authorized release.

Longer is better (and feels shorter in consequence) was definitely the case for me with Belle Noiseuse -- so it is easy to imagine this is true for Va savoir as well.

Just to pipe in as well. The VS+ cut does feel shorter, and funnier. Like with other Rivettes, the payoffs work better with longer set-ups. I also found the story a bit more plausible, and the characters more likable. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I decided to revisit Up/Down/Fragile and Secret Defense, two other films from that era that never really did much for me. Sadly, after re-watching them, they still left me feeling a bit disappointed. But it made me wonder if a longer cut of both films would have been better.

Up/Down/Fragile is already pretty long. I like both UDF and Secret Defense, but prefer Gang of Four to either.

And now we have an annoucement for Up, Down, Fragile from Kino for April 11.

https://kinolorber.com/product/up-down-fragile-1

JSC wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:20 pm And now we have an annoucement for Up, Down, Fragile from Kino for April 11.

https://kinolorber.com/product/up-down-fragile-1

Right, now nobody on this forum has an excuse for avoiding this one. Between this and Has Anybody Seen My Gal? it's already a banner year for neglected musicals on Blu-Ray.

soundchaser wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:19 am

JSC wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:20 pm And now we have an annoucement for Up, Down, Fragile from Kino for April 11.

https://kinolorber.com/product/up-down-fragile-1

Right, now nobody on this forum has an excuse for avoiding this one. Between this and Has Anybody Seen My Gal? it's already a banner year for neglected musicals on Blu-Ray.

Time to strike while the iron's hot and gather back up that collective enthusiasm for a musical redux project

Michael Kerpan wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:00 pm Up/Down/Fragile is already pretty long. I like both UDF and Secret Defense, but prefer Gang of Four to either.

It is long. But then, so is the theatrical cut of Va Savoir. Though I agree, Gang of Four is the better of the three, if you were to group these three films together (though I tend to group SD and UPD with Merry Go Round, whereas I group Gang of Four with Love on the Ground and Va Savoir).

Great that it's finally coming out in the English-speaking world - this is a wonderful film that's been neglected for way too long - but this news honestly feels a bit anticlimactic after the Potemkine release. Guessing there's not much cause to double-dip on this? Has anyone noticed any difference in image quality between the Potemkine and Kino Rivette discs so far?

Once upon a time there was a subbed VHS version of Up Down Fragile that cost something like $150 (aimed at libraries and schools, I think). I never managed to borrow a copy of this....

Yep, released by Cinema Parallel (Rob Tregenza's company). They had a mouth-watering lineup that also included The Seventh Continent, JLG/JLG, Sátántangó, and Damnation, but when I emailed to ask if their VHS releases would ever come down in price I was brusquely informed it wasn't financially viable for them. My guess is they could only afford institutional video rights and not consumer video.

furbicide wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:52 pm Great that it's finally coming out in the English-speaking world - this is a wonderful film that's been neglected for way too long - but this news honestly feels a bit anticlimactic after the Potemkine release. Guessing there's not much cause to double-dip on this? Has anyone noticed any difference in image quality between the Potemkine and Kino Rivette discs so far?

I'm curious, are the Potemkine special features subtitled? As some whose French isn't quite good enough to watch with just the audio, I'd prefer these Cohen Media releases over the French releases simply because at least they all have commentary tracks in English.

The Potemkine special features are not English subtitled and are on a seperate DVD disc and not Blu Ray like the main feature.

Finished the longer cut of Va Savoir yesterday. I wished I'd seen the shorter version more recently so I could meaningfully compare them – it's too long ago for me to recognise exactly which passages weren't there in the theatrical cut – but, regardless, I thought this was a strong and highly enjoyable piece of filmmaking, and easily the best thing Rivette made in the last decade of his career. Sergio Castellitto is a great physical performer (I'd seen him in this film and Around a Small Mountain before, but this quality never occurred to me at the time), while Jeanne Balibar is unsurprisingly excellent in the film's most demanding role, effectively conveying a character whose will has been drained by her own indecision until she starts to find some purpose as

Spoiler

firstly, an Irma Vep-style escaped kidnap victim, and then the accomplice in a sting.

Hélène de Fougerolles, also wonderful as one of the teachers in Lucile Hadzihalilovic's Innocence, is brilliant here too, offering some effective on-screen chemistry with Castellitto.

For what's essentially (or, to be more precise, ends up as) a romantic farce, though, there are some surprisingly dark sexual undercurrents running through this film, particularly in

Spoiler

the incestuous relationship between Arthur and Do, the sequence in which Arthur spikes Sonia's drink with Rohypnol – though it's unclear if he goes beyond robbing her, the suggestion is certainly there – and finally in the sequence of Arthur's comeuppance, in which Camille must sleep with someone she evidently loathes in order to help Sonia and, in the end, gets quite literally paid for it.

But it's a very funny film too, much more so than the bulk of Rivette's work; only Celine and Julie, from memory, has as many laugh-out-loud moments.

Here's hoping that the long version of Va Savoir in the not-too-distant future finds its way into the queue of releases being put out by Potemkine and Cohen, so that more people can at last enjoy the definitive version of the film.

O where, I wish, I wish in vain (which song?), I could simply sit home and watch "Va savoir" again (in the longer version). Any leads, gladly via PM, would be welcome.

Va savoir was my first Rivette film -- and I suspect it was as good a place to start as any of the films (and better than most -- for that purpose). I would have found Celine and Julie (as much as I love it now) a much tougher introduction. Keeping my fingers crossed for the long version showing up. (And a great extra would be if they could find a filmed performance of the full Pirandello play as well).

mhofmann wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:13 am

furbicide wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:43 am

mhofmann wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:18 am Note that all recent French-language Cohen Film Collection releases have non-removable subtitles that are actually 'burnt' (encoded) into the picture. Just saying that this seems to be a new (utterly despicable) company policy that might also hit this release...

I'm genuinely shocked to hear that – almost as archaic in this day and age as a pan-and-scan release, and certainly not what you'd expect from a serious label. Has anyone gotten in touch to complain?

I have tried but couldn't even find a proper contact email address for their home video (non-streaming) division.

Completely agree that this is an utterly shocking tactic that shouldn't happen anymore.
I fear for the worst with this title.

Just saw the Beaver review for this and, alas, it confirms that English subtitles for Cohen's Blu-ray of Love on the Ground are burned in. Not the end of the world, but seriously ... what decade are we in again?

They've had a change of heart on the title, at least – the pedantic article at the beginning is now gone.

Yeah they are - I was rewinding and fast forwarding my disc last night to review certain sections and no matter what the playback speed, there were the lines!

Literally actually "burned in" and not just irremovable? Maybe I'll just stick with my unsubbed French DVD...

The way I understand it, the subs are encoded into the video file. So there is no way to get rid of them.

therewillbeblus wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:22 am Yeah they are - I was rewinding and fast forwarding my disc last night to review certain sections and no matter what the playback speed, there were the lines!

Your Panasonic UHD player has a subtitle shift option, so you should be able to move them down off the bottom of the screen entirely if they're "just" unremovable but still player generated. I'd be amazed if they're actually fully burned into the video file (the Blu-ray.com review says they are merely "forced").

There is no dedicated subtitle stream that you could remove one way or another, they really are burnt in the video.

Oh no!

tenia wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:44 pm There is no dedicated subtitle stream that you could remove one way or another, they really are burnt in the video.

Malpractice!
No way I can support such a release.

There is a Cohen Media rep that posts in the Blu-ray.com Cohen Media thread and the posters have told them that they don't have to use that method to force the subtitles and they just don't care. (It also is completely baffling that no other US label has to force subtitles on releases of French films except for Cohen Media.)

It really is "unfortunate" that a better company did not get the rights to these Rivette films.