Criterion Blu-ray

[Jun-Dai]

No. If the materials at hand aren't good enough to warrant a HD upgrade and the title in question can be bundled with something else (I'm specifically thinking of The Island of Lost Souls and one or two other Uni titles they allegedly got the rights to), they're certain to shove it into the Eclipse line.

So if they were too cook something up like The Golden Age of Television or the Painlevé set, do you think they would:
* Simply not do them?
* Put them out on Eclipse?
* Give them a DVD-only release?
* Or give them a Blu-ray release.

My vote would be 3 and 4, respectively.

I doubt filmmakers like Frantisek Vlacil or Hong Sang soo would receive blu ray treatment, but because criterion is entirely bent on releasing every new film on blu ray, it limits what they're able to release while simultaneously staying in business. We would have never seen the likes of Dillinger Is Dead or Pedro Costa be released if Criterion back then had determined to release everything on blu, although I'm sure films like The Exterminating Angel and Two or Three Things I know About Her would have have received blu ray treatment if they were released today.

Intuitively what you say makes sense, but I'm not sure their releases on Blu-ray thus far really support up your point. It's true that as far as rereleases are concerned, they have been gilding the canon with HD transfers a bit, so to speak. But as far as new spine numbers go—it seems as eclectic as ever to me. If they were suddenly given access to the whole of Hong Sang-soo's body of work, many no doubt would get relegated to Eclipse or Hulu+, but I'm pretty sure they would take great care of 2–3 of his films (I don't know anything about František Vláčil, so I can't really speak to him). That's pretty much the way it's always been, except instead of films getting dumped over to Home Vision they have Eclipse instead. Hopefully Hulu+ doesn't become the new Eclipse

As far as I know, Criterion has always been willing to let the more popular releases pay for release of films they care deeply about, rather than forcing every title to pay for itself. The fact that they no longer seem to need to release films like Evita or The Rock tells me that the water line is much lower than it used to be.

One note: look at how much attention they lavished on the original Brakhage set. It can't have been cheap. The fact that it sold well is sort of besides the point, because by all accounts it was expected to sell hardly at all and yet they were willing to make the investment anyways. I'd be surprised if they make their money back on The Mikado.

[rrenault]

Well The Mikado's a bit of a moot point, since it's a complement to Topsy-Turvy, which they probably will make their money back on, although I could be wrong.

Perhaps Criterion would take great care of a film like The Power of Kangwon Province, but I'd be shocked if they released it on blu ray. Also, would anyone happen to know why or have an idea as to why L'Enfance Nue was DVD-only, along with Rosselini's War Trilogy? The war trilogy is standard western canon fare, so I'm surprised that didn't get a blu ray. Perhaps L'Enfance Nue was bit too obscure.

I'd be very curious to know how many copies Dillinger Is Dead has actually sold, because if it made $8000 at the box office, that means not even 1000 people went to see it.

[knives]

Admittedly these are no hard figures, but Dillinger is Dead is only at the high 31, 000 set on Amazon's bestsellers list while by comparison the DVD and Blu of House are in the 10, 000 and 8, 000 set respectively. It no clear indicator for exactly how many of each have sold, but it does suggest that Dillinger is Dead has not sold that well. Also for a third stat just to better place everything the DVD for Fear and Loathing is at the 11, 000 set

[rrenault]

Well the blu rays of Red Desert, Last Year at Marienbad, and Vivre Sa Vie are in the 40,000 set, so even worse, and one would think those would sell better than Dillinger. Perhaps, however, maybe having both a blu and DVD means the two releases cancel each other out in terms of sales figures. Of course that begs to question why House is a stronger seller, even though the first three films I mentioned would presumable by far more popular.

[Jun-Dai]

Perhaps Criterion would take great care of a film like The Power of Kangwon Province, but I'd be shocked if they released it on blu ray.

What makes you say that? I haven't seen the film, but of the two I have seen (Virgin Stripped Bare by her Bachelors and Woman on the Beach), I would not be surprised to see either show up. And I didn't even particularly like Virgin…

Also, would anyone happen to know why or have an idea as to why L'Enfance Nue was DVD-only, along with Rosselini's War Trilogy? The war trilogy is standard western canon fare, so I'm surprised that didn't get a blu ray. Perhaps L'Enfance Nue was bit too obscure.

I think that was just a matter of timing. I'm pretty sure if either were released now they would be done on Blu-ray. Same with Human Condition, etc. I suspect they were already working on these for a while when they started doing Blu-ray, and at the time they were still not fully committed to the format (as they appear to be now, pretty much), so it probably didn't make sense to go back and redo them entirely. I think releases like People on Sunday and Pale Flower are pretty good evidence that they no longer have a sellability requirement for the format. And I suspect Eclipse is less about that same notion of sellability so much as they fact that they have finite resources they can dedicate to their projects and they don't want that to prevent those titles in their catalog from getting released at all.

[knives]

Well the blu rays of Red Desert, Last Year at Marienbad, and Vivre Sa Vie are in the 40,000 set, so even worse, and one would think those would sell better than Dillinger. Perhaps, however, maybe having both a blu and DVD means the two releases cancel each other out in terms of sales figures. Of course that begs to question why House is a stronger seller, even though the first three films I mentioned would presumable by far more popular.

House is actually one of the bigger titles they ever released. Though it's mostly because they released it. Their release has turned it into something of a cult item and it's massively popular along the lines of Ed Wood and Rocky Horror. Just in the past six months my local theater has given it somewhere around five midnight screenings. Also I'm sure if you google it you'll find more discussions(though lacking in quality)on House than the three you mentioned which will forever be relegated to more intellectual discussion. Never underestimate the American preoccupation with Japanese oddities.

[zedz]

I really have very little interest in The Mikado, but it amuses me that people on this forum automatically assume that their taste is the ideal microcosm of the world at large. Thus, every time Criterion releases a disc with a really obvious niche appeal outside the art film crowd (such as this, Antonio Gaudi or the Martha Graham set) there are these big assumptions that Criterion have lost their minds and are about to lose their shirts on those titles as well.

The fact is that the niche audiences for those titles are probably vastly larger than those for most European art films, and they're audiences that are likely to be discovering and buying the release over many years, rather than peaking at release.

Using the fabulously unreliable Amazon sales ranking, we find The Mikado Blu at 3,999 (so, twice as popular as House) and, probably even more telling, the years-old Martha Graham disc at 22,000 - twice as popular as any of the much more recent arthouse holy trinity of Red Desert, Last Year at Marienbad, and Vivre Sa Vie mentioned above.

[knives]

That's definitely a better version of what I was trying to say. I mean just looking at the most recent set of pre-orders the one this board is most excited about is Zazie, but nearly all the others in the month are higher up than it including the derided The Makioka Sisters. In fact you have to go all the way down to spot 26 for it to appear.
Honestly it really shouldn't be a shock that the list skews english language and Japanese.

[Doctor Sunshine]

Yes, but Still Walking does not seem like it would be significantly more popular than The Magician and House. It's a pretty obscure title, UNLIKE Paths of Glory.

I used Still Walking as an example of the increase in newer films, i.e., the IFC stuff. If you count some of those as obscure too, what's the problem? You're losing me more and more. I'll just echo Jun-Dai's question, why would Criterion never release Frantisek Vlacil or Hong Sang-soo on blu-ray? Based on what?

[Tom Hagen]

"Why didn't they release x or y 2009 or 2010 mainline release on both formats?" is largely an academic question at this point. Since last fall, everything they've done on the mainline has come out in both formats.

As for the War Trilogy question, I'm pretty sure that Criterion said it was already their most costly production -- ever. Perhaps the additional cost of doing Blu was prohibitive at the time due to the additional work the film elements may have required.

[aox]

Of all titles for BD, The Human Condition was such a lost opportunity. #-o

[dwk]

L'enfance nue and Dillinger Is Dead are licensed from the same company, Roissy Films and since Criterion has been releasing Blu-rays they have released DVD only editions of three films licensed from Roissy Films (L'enfance, Dillinger, and Z), so I assume they only have the rights to release DVDs of those films (what other reason could there be for no Blu-ray release of Z?)

[rrenault]

I thought once Criterion has a film licensed they can do whatever the heck they want with it. You think we would have seen blu rays for Army of Shadows and Le Cercle Rouge if they had to get a separate license for the blu ray releases.

[Jeff]

I thought once Criterion has a film licensed they can do whatever the heck they want with it.

No, their license from StudioCanal may have included all home media formats since SC used to have no presence in the U.S. In general, however, their licenses have been specific to DVD and have to be renegotiated to encompass Blu-ray.

[rrenault]

Sometimes I wonder if this whole ordeal with studio canal was one big hoax, since no new titles have been added to the SC Collection since September. I mean, don't you think the two aforementioned Melvilles would have gone out of print by now? And if it's not a hoax, would criterion release blu rays of the other remaining SC titles like Le Doulos, La Haine, Mafioso, and I don't know what else?

[dwk]

I don't think any of the remaining StudioCanal titles are directly licensed from StudioCanal. La haine is licensed from Universal and I think the rest of them are licensed from Rialto. At a certain point Universal's rights to La haine and Rialto's rights to the rest will go back to StudioCanal.

It is really annoying that Lionsgate is doing almost nothing with the StudioCanal titles.

[Jeff]

Sometimes I wonder if this whole ordeal with studio canal was one big hoax, since no new titles have been added to the SC Collection since September. I mean, don't you think the two aforementioned Melvilles would have gone out of print by now? And if it's not a hoax, would criterion release blu rays of the other remaining SC titles like Le Doulos, La Haine, Mafioso, and I don't know what else?

A hoax? Criterion had a relationship with SC for years and licenses were created and renewed at different times both via Janus and Rialto, so they all expire at different times and have different terms and conditions. I imagine that we will see most of the remaining SC titles go out of print over the course of the next year or so.

StudioCanal doesn't have any rights to La Haine in the U.S. They produced it, but Universal is the U.S. distributor in perpetuity, and Criterion licensed it from them.

I'd imagine that the situation with Le Cercle Rouge is similar to the one with Pierrot le fou. They know that they have rights for a limited period of time, but believe that the title is a relatively big seller, and that sales will be greatest at the time of release. They determine that it is worth the investment to release a title that they may only have the rights to for a year or less. They produce an extraordinary amount of those titles during first pressing, and thus they continue to be widely available years after they go out of print. That situation also happened with the DVD release of Straw Dogs.

My guess is that with Le Doulos, Mafioso, et. al., Criterion's rights either expire to soon, or they don't believe the titles will be big enough sellers to justify a limited-time Blu-ray release.

[rrenault]

So you don't think Army of Shadows and Le Cercle Rouge will jack up in price the instant they go out of print? It's amusing what studio canal does to your criterion buying habits. I probably own about 20 films or so on criterion, and I'd say about half of them are studio canal, and I'll probably even upgrade my Cercle Rouge DVD, although I doubt I'll buy Mafioso or Le Doulos, neither of which I've yet seen.

[swo17]

I'll just echo Jun-Dai's question, why would Criterion never release Frantisek Vlacil or Hong Sang-soo on blu-ray? Based on what?

Criterion is rumored to have purchased the rights to Marketa Lazarova, which is supposed to have recently been restored.

[rrenault]

Marketa Lazarova would be a great addition to the collection. I suppose releasing a blu ray of a film like Fear and Loathing would give them the safety net to take on the riskier endeavor of releasing a film like Marketa on blu ray, since I can't imagine it would sell too many copies. It's certainly a film I'll need to watch many times before I truly comprehend. I saw it once at Lincoln Center and was a bit lost, since it can be a challenging film to follow at first.

[Doctor Sunshine]

Criterion is rumored to have purchased the rights to Marketa Lazarova, which is supposed to have recently been restored.

This is probably too stupid to post but I can't help myself: I recommended this film to Jon Mulvaney almost 10 years ago after reading this description of the film and without actually having seen it. So if this does happen I'm taking full credit. And if it's on blu I'm going to be twice as intolerable.

"Vlácil’s stunning, savage epic is the only film I’ve ever seen in which the Medieval world looks truly inhabited" (Elliot Stein, The Village Voice). According to legend, Frantisek Vlácil spent six years completing MARKÉTA LAZAROVÁ and the film’s demands were exacting. All props and costumes were made according to original techniques and sets were erected in mountainous regions of Czechoslovakia. He required the cast to live in the Šumava forest for two years in order to fully assimilate with the conditions portrayed in the film. Shooting took place during the dead of winter. But the director’s thoroughness produced miraculous results. "It is without question one of the best historical films yet made and its use of black and white Scope images is reminiscent of Kurosawa at his best" (Peter Hames).

Based on the novel by Vladislav Vancura, one of modern Czech literature’s most esteemed writers, MARKÉTA LAZAROVÁ concerns the vicious inter-clan rivalry perpetrated by the thieving Kozlik brothers who are caught between paganism and an emerging Christianity, and the ill-fated love affair between Mikoláš Kozlik and Markéta Lazarová. Iconic animals abound – ravens, wolves, and lamb – revealing a universal mythology of the natural world. But in addition to being fantastical, the film is also profoundly realistic and completely in keeping with Vlácil’s desire to accurately reconstruct the past to illuminate the present. The narrative avoids linearity; haunting music and distant voices accompany the twists and turns of this epic masterpiece.

[Jun-Dai]

I really have very little interest in The Mikado, but it amuses me that people on this forum automatically assume that their taste is the ideal microcosm of the world at large. Thus, every time Criterion releases a disc with a really obvious niche appeal outside the art film crowd (such as this, Antonio Gaudi or the Martha Graham set) there are these big assumptions that Criterion have lost their minds and are about to lose their shirts on those titles as well.

That is a very good point, sir. I'd figured along those lines for some titles, but it certainly hadn't occurred to me that there would be a large niche interest in The Mikado. But I suppose there are still a good number of Gilbert and Sullivan fans out there.

I would have figured that the film student crowd would outnumber them, but probably the film student crowd doesn't have the same kind of purchasing power either.

[swo17]

Criterion is rumored to have purchased the rights to Marketa Lazarova, which is supposed to have recently been restored.

This is probably too stupid to post but I can't help myself: I recommended this film to Jon Mulvaney almost 10 years ago after reading this description of the film and without actually having seen it. So if this does happen I'm taking full credit. And if it's on blu I'm going to be twice as intolerable.

Hey, if this happens, you can run for president and I'll vote for you.

No amount of hyperbole can do this film justice.

[rrenault]

Unless I'm imagining things, isn't Godard's Week End supposed to be on the way?

[Tom Hagen]

You should ask them about it on Facebook.