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The supposedly original 2.0 audio on the Midnight Run 4k seems to be a downmix and Mark had also ripped the audio of The People Under The Stairs which is similarly displaying samey-looking wavelengths. Re Midnight Run, users are also complaining that the grain doesn't look natural, especially in brightly lit scenes.

With all these issues plaguing their releases, their Black Christmas UHD feels like an outlier in getting everything right. I'm glad I did not pre-order The Burning and Upgrade already because now I'm definitely going to wait. The latter and Midnight Run might be coming from Second Sight as both have had BDs from them.

They used an outside source for the Black Christmas audio (Brett C on Blu-ray.com). He worked on a number of Shout releases that all now have fantastic original audio sounding better than ever before (Escape from New York, The Entity, King Kong 76, Robocop 2 and 3, Halloween 4 and 5, the Friday the 13th Box, The Howling, The Fog).

I did see Brett C's posts on BR re the Black Christmas audio and his painstaking restoration work. I was referring not just to the issues of marketing downmixes as original audio but their ongoing encoding problems. They could be a great label if they took much greater care of QC'ing and properly encoding all their titles. But Shout are just too sloppy and inconsistent.

Finch wrote:The supposedly original 2.0 audio on the Midnight Run 4k seems to be a downmix and Mark had also ripped the audio of The People Under The Stairs which is similarly displaying samey-looking wavelengths. Re Midnight Run, users are also complaining that the grain doesn't look natural, especially in brightly lit scenes.

With all these issues plaguing their releases, their Black Christmas UHD feels like an outlier in getting everything right. I'm glad I did not pre-order The Burning and Upgrade already because now I'm definitely going to wait. The latter and Midnight Run might be coming from Second Sight as both have had BDs from them.

Can confirm that the grain of Midnight Run looks unnatural in brightly lit scenes. I haven’t gotten the chance to see the entire film in 4K but noticed it when I watched the beginning for a few minutes. I’d still say this is a solid upgrade to older discs, though not quite perfect, so business as usual with Shout.

Hopefully the Region locking debacle leads to them finally implementing more time for QC similar to Arrow. Shout should have learned their lessons ages ago already.

Finch wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:06 pm The supposedly original 2.0 audio on the Midnight Run 4k seems to be a downmix and Mark had also ripped the audio of The People Under The Stairs which is similarly displaying samey-looking wavelengths.

Mark has also been discussing this on the fanrestore forum. AFAIK all we can say from those waveforms is the dynamic range has been compressed. I must admit though, I’m not an expert to know how to accurately determine if a track is a downmix, other than downmixing a 5.1 and comparing the 2.0 against it, as well as against a known authentic 2.0.

That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if they do end up being downmixes.

Thelma and Louise 4k caps-a-holic

Finch wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:32 pm Thelma and Louise 4k caps-a-holic

It's interesting to see (remembering the usual pinch of salt regarding SDR conversions) how close the grading is to the former BD's.

It's only Toho that won't license 4K rights to foreign parties until their films have been released on 4K in Japan. Is that correct? Or is it all Japanese studios? Because Branded to Kill doesn't appear to have a Japanese 4K release. Ran and Dreams haven't been released on 4K in Japan either of course, but the rights holders for those two titles aren't Japanese, so it's a moot point.

Good news! I tried forcing the French 4K of la règle du jeu back into SDR on my system and it does fix the high contrast issue found on it and its grading seems to match the caps of the criterion 4k after doing so.

M-A wrote:Good news! I tried forcing the French 4K of la règle du jeu back into SDR on my system and it does fix the high contrast issue found on it and its grading seems to match the caps of the criterion 4k after doing so.

Thanks for trying it out! On my Panasonic UB-820 it worked out well. I forced it into BT.709.

It would have been a shame if not since the disc is really nicely encoded otherwise, making this classic look astonishingly good despite the source issues.

I received my copies of the new Dario Argento UHDs from Plaion (Germany).

Four Flies on Grey Velvet:

I can report right off the bat after a brief look that this is not the same disc as the Carlotta. BD-66, German, Italian and English audio presented here in 2.0 PCM.

I spot-checked in Dolby Vision and it is not the same grade as the Carlotta either.
Plaion therefore conducted their own grading and it has been done to match the Severin US. There aren't even hints of yellow / "teal" left. I'd say it strikes the perfect balance between the rather pale Severin and the colorful Carlotta. I have a feeling that this was the intention. Plaion nailed it in that regard.

That means for all fans of a natural-looking grade like the Severin with the bonus of excellent encoding, this release will be for you. I personally have hoped for the saturated grading of the Carlotta as a mean of emphasizing Argento's stylizations with the camera. That's why I'll have to get this release too (sigh) but this German release is without a doubt an excellent presentation which serves the film well.

Opera:

The set includes 2x UHD (both BD-66 - one for the original Italian version, one for the Export cut), 3x BD (2x BD-50 for the feature - one of them with both versions in open matte, BD-25 bonus).

Both UHDs look as if they come straight from Arrow - meaning flawless encoding (from what I saw after a brief check), beautiful colors (nothing yellow or "teal" for those sensitive to it), astounding (to my eyes) depth and detail from what certainly is a great restoration. If Plaion has done color corrections á la Four Flies on Grey Velvet they've achieved what they were looking for.

Note that subtitles are only available on the Italian long version and none at all on the Export cut.

I'm not 100% sure about the audio though. Plaion has given the audio (regular English track) a surprisingly small bitrate of roughly 1.5 Mbps on the long version and 1 Mbps on the export. The Cannes dub (?) is always at around 1.0. I know that bitrate isn't everything but for a film so heavy on music it did strike me as a little tame.

I have the old Scorpion BD with their 5.1 remix and would love to hear it combined with the new 4K video, albeit at the loss of the DV layer during the remux.

A quick back-to-back test makes it clear that both tracks on the Scorpion (Dual Mono) and the 5.1 are richer and louder at the same reference level. Both run at higher bitrates as well. Dual Mono at approx. 2 and the 5.1 around 3.5.

I personally will attempt a remux but the audio on the Plaion isn't botched or bad in any way - just a little less bombastic than I'd want for this film. I'd recommend turning up the volume.

Nevertheless, a fantastic release and clearly definitive when it comes to the video. I hope you all will get yours soon and enjoy this masterful film. I'll try to provide screenshots as soon as I can.

Received my Thelma & Louise 4K today and it‘s a top tier disc. The low-pass filter has rarely been as subtly used as here. It looks gorgeous in 4K. Should there be no other UHD anywhere in the world (as it’s a MGM title) I wouldn’t complain.

The reports about “real” are exaggerated. The film looks great in DV. I’d say that these impressions have come up because the bright side of HDR is used more and therefore it’s less traditionally 35mm-looking in addition to blues evoking a steely touch as a result. But it’s really not a big deal any more in 4K as that disc renders Scott’s look so much better than any Blu-ray.

(I’m just wondering why couldn’t they treat the Three Colors trilogy that way? The film stock identity of the period is pretty much the same yet they filtered the gorgeously small, yet heavy grain away. Here it’s I think at least 90% intact. I don’t think Scott has had any involvement with the Blu-ray encode but yeah, it’s odd which buttons are being pushed at Pixelogic depending on the title).

The Longest Yard would be a top-tier disc but is “just” extremely solid due to Paramount’s ever-so-random and occasional use of grain management which makes the grain look smeary and mushy. The difference to a Paramount-authored disc is that Kino encodes extremely well which makes that disc well worth watching and owning but Kino can only do as much.

For comparison, I’d pay a lot of money to have a disc of Marathon Man looking as good as The Longest Yard.

A couple of updates for the master list:

- Police Story 3 4K (88 Films) can be added as a reference disc. A total winner, even over Eureka’s version.
- Opera (Dario Argento, Plaion Germany) is a reference disc. Audio Italian English and German with German subtitles.
- Four Flies on Grey Velvet (Plaion) is another reference disc with Italian English and German audio with German subtitles. Not totally English friendly though due to the Italian only sections in the English track. Due to superior encoding on this disc AND the FR Carlotta as well as improved, less pale color grading I’d therefore lower the Severin disc to solid upgrade.
- Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Arrow). A demo disc on its own and a massive (yes, I mean it) upgrade over the Arrow remastered BD which is good on its own but looks bad when compared. An essential addition to the BD LE since not all extras were ported over.
- Run, Lola, Run (Sony, Columbia Classics 3) sadly is not a top-tier disc. Mediocre compression even in DV. Highlights are clipped similar to Three Colors and macroblocking around. Solid in normal sections but disappointing on its own and for Sony standards.

nicolas wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:48 pm- Run, Lola, Run (Sony, Columbia Classics 3) sadly is not a top-tier disc. Mediocre compression even in DV.

Since Sony use DV of the MEL variety, not FEL, DV brings nothing to the image other than dynamic tone mapping.

EddieLarkin wrote:

nicolas wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:48 pm- Run, Lola, Run (Sony, Columbia Classics 3) sadly is not a top-tier disc. Mediocre compression even in DV.

Since Sony use DV of the MEL variety, not FEL, DV brings nothing to the image other than dynamic tone mapping.

Right, I forgot that this was one of the MEL titles in the set.

Aren't they all? I don't think I know of a single title from Sony that is FEL. Ditto Warner Bros., and everything David M has encoded (with the exception of Drive).

Whereas Kino, Shout, StudioCanal, Universal, Paramount, Blue Underground and Lionsgate always do.

According to these posts on BR.com, there are DV FEL discs in the set: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=582

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=624

To my surprise, Run Lola Run is a FEL disc so the issue is even more prevalent.

Those ~2Mbps ELs usually are just padded, so still MEL.

Detail at https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=276448

Yes, it's not a coincidence the DV layer is always around 2100kbps on Sony discs (which would make no sense if they were FEL).

EddieLarkin wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:46 pm everything David M has encoded (with the exception of Drive).

Interesting. I had assumed David encoded MEL exclusively, with the exception of the Spears & Munsil test discs.

Not all that surprising for a digitally shot film though, his insights re. FEL on BR:

David M wrote: The point of the extra pixel data in FEL is to increase the bit depth to 12 bits. Dolby has always been vocal about 12 bits being necessary to avoid banding in HDR video. My personal view: I imagine that would be most apparent for content like CG animation, or other very noise-free digital video at high luminance levels. Dolby's POV makes total sense when you keep in mind that PQ/st2084 is future-proofed beyond current display technologies, and specifies a max luminance of 10,000 nits.

For content scanned from film, where the grain effectively acts as a dither, and the levels rarely go above a few hundred nits, 10 bit should be enough to be banding free.

Rain Man (MVD) Chris's review

The Showgirls 4k has audio issues: the 2.0 track is fine but the 5.1 is out of sync and echo-y. Posts here and here. dallywhitty and other members were able to confirm this is affecting all discs as well as the enclosed BDs.

Paramount left The Firm to be encoded by their C-team; even Dolby Vision doesn't fix it.

No in depth reviews of 88's Burial Ground yet but pnaschy posted comparisons of the new and old BDs, and the new BD is better.

Oof, does VS have a good track history of providing corrected discs?

therewillbeblus wrote:Oof, does VS have a good track history of providing corrected discs?

The BR.com user who first noticed the issue has already contacted VS’s customer service and they apparently replied straight away and forwarded the issue to the right department.

Based on personal experiences, their customer service is truly phenomenal (on-par with Criterion) but we’ll see about how that department deals with it. Best case would be that current buyers receive a new disc automatically and future stock will have the replaced disc already inside.

For such an issue (looks like the surround channels are out of sync with the rest of the channels), I'd be surprised, looking at their track record, if VS don't do a replacement program.