The Dark Knight Trilogy (Christopher Nolan, 2005-2012)

[Mr Sausage]

Spoiler

There is also no dramatic reason for Michael Caine to be dreaming things. It makes perfect sense in Inception, but it serves no purpose in Batman. It's not a movie about the ambiguous nature of reality.

[BrianInAtlanta]

Trying to keep this spoiler free...

Just saw it and I'd have to put myself in the bit disappointed camp as well. More than anything I think it showed the limits of injecting big themes and richer character motivation into, not a comic book or superhero movie, but a summer blockbuster movie. Ultimately it has to become a hybrid that damages one part or the other or even both.

Characters have their allegiances turned 180 degrees so we can get the big plot-driven surprise but then everything has to stop while we establish their backstories as if they weren't merely mechanical devices. Current politics get raised only to be cut short so we can get to the next action scene.

This isn't a case of thinking a genre shouldn't strive or is getting too pretentious as much as showing how you can't do these two things at once and do them both well. The big explosions and plot reversals necessary to keep the audience continually excited make mincemeat of any characterization or political question that is being raised. When it's over, a viewer is left thinking, "why was this even brought up? Am I supposed to be giving serious thought to the drawbacks of Occupy Wall Street or think of Bane as a richly motivated character? If not, why were they wasting my time with it?"

[Professor Wagstaff]

Spoiler

I wish the film mentioned (and maybe it didn't in fear audiences would be taken out of the picture) what happened to The Joker. My only reason for mentioning this is because the film clearly establishes that all the prisoners have been freed, with the major whackos like Crane roaming free and even thriving. Since The Joker was arrested, surely he must be roaming the city somewhere, but if he was, surely a destructive presence like his would be noticed. I've been curious to know if Nolan had envisioned his film to include The Joker before the death of Heath Ledger and how that altered his plans if that was the case.

[knives]

Nolan has said his original plan for the third film was to show the Joker on trial which naturally Ledger's death kiboshed. One could presume that the Joker has died sometime between the second and third films perhaps even being put under the death penalty for terrorism.

[SpiderBaby]

Professor Wagstaff,

Spoiler

Out of respect, they didn't want to mention The Joker. From a story perspective, The Joker might have been put in Arkham, the prisoners were freed from "Blackgate" prison, which helps not mentioning the Joker and his escape during TDKR. Why would Crane be in "Blackgate" and not "Arkham"? Well to make up my own conclusion, I suppose in TDK he was arrested for a crime (in the beginning of the film) and not locked away for being nuts.

[flyonthewall2983]

Spoiler

My theory is that Tiny Lister and his gang killed him for inconveniencing them on the ferry.

[Professor Wagstaff]

Spoiler

There are any number of scenarios for why he wasn't around, including the idea that he might have been imprisoned in some other city (I tend to assume, with my superficial Batman knowledge, that the major villains will end up at Arkham). I understand all the reasons not to bring it up and how to explain it away, but once the thought occurred to me I couldn't shake it. I'm fascinated by what could have been in a hypothetical Batman courtroom drama (that sounds fantastic).

[R0lf]

Nolan has said his original plan for the third film was to show the Joker on trial which naturally Ledger's death kiboshed. One could presume that the Joker has died sometime between the second and third films perhaps even being put under the death penalty for terrorism.

The quote you mention from Nolan was in relation to the third film being about the rise of Two-Face during the trial of the Joker. Nolan later went on to say he rolled the original concept for two movies into The Dark Knight.

[Roger Ryan]

Spoiler

Ha! If only Selina was added to be the bigger selling point of the film. I know a lot of people who were excited that Bane was the baddie. That's a great point about the films being as much Gordon's story as Batman's. That makes me even more disappointed that Gordon was reined in so much for the movie. He was capable enough planning and jumping onto the truck to work on the bomb. There wasn't even a lot of emotional resonance provided for his relationship to Blake. The narrative provides his impetus for being Robin, but there's nothing at the end to indicate really how we should feel about him standing in the cave. "OMG! Robin movie starring JGL!" is a great reaction to end on (said the marketing team and all JGL fans), but come one - what's been invested in him to make the audience turn out for that movie?

Spoiler

Reading this and looking back just makes me feel they spent more than half of this film introducing a character that might not even get a follow up film. Why would you waste that time of your highly praised trilogy to not focus on your 2 main characters (Bruce and Gordon) and end the story that you have told the past 2. It just makes me feel he spent all of Blake's time to give a wink to the audience that "it will go on". Now I feel sorry for a fictional character in Gordon that didn't really get the ending to this trilogy I thought he would after TDK. Fun film and had some great things that I loved, just was expecting more for the characters that was built through the past 2 films. It felt like they pushed them aside and had the Inception team and Anne take the trilogy over.

Spoiler

Blake was playing the "Robin" role in this movie; I suspect for any potential "reboot" he will be the new Batman. The script comments on how "Batman" is not necessarily just one person and that the mantle can be passed to someone new. I'm not keen on any more of these films being made, but I'm alright with the suggestion that Blake will take over Wayne's vigilante role.

I'm very pleased with Nolan's wrap-up of the trilogy. The lack of a stand-out character/performance like the Joker brings the film down quite a few notches, but this is far more engaging than any other "third" film in a superhero franchise I've seen...and more fun than many superhero movies in general.

As to Alfred's reverie...

Spoiler

If this was intended to be a dream image, I doubt Alfred would see Selina Kyle with Wayne since he would have been unaware of their developed relationship. But then a little ambiguity is fine and the viewer can interpret this moment as they see fit.

[stroszeck]

Just got through seeing this in the IMAX format and have to say I was fairly spellbound the last half hour or so. Then I end up on this board a few hours later and notice from all your posts just what was missing.

Spoiler

From the very beginning I felt a bit of a disconnect to the characters. Even the Selina Kyle moments the audience was eating up and giggling at weren't particularly amusing to me. The story itself felt sort of half baked and I agree, the focus should have been on Gordon and Wayne. I liked Blake because I felt he could've given us a more "grounded" perspective of things, sort of like the rookie beat cop thing you've seen before, but then his story got wrapped up in the bigger arc and lost that "street edge." I also noticed a GLARING continuity error - when Bane takes over the stock exchange and then him and the crew peel outta there on motorcycles, this all feels continuous and is shot during the day, and yet the instant before Batman arrives for the first time its pitch black night......also I didn't care much for the cave stuff, felt it could've been handled more...elegantly. As far as Miranda Tate, this character/relationship was just ridiculous and underdeveloped and shouldn't have been in the movie. And as for the nuclear explosion? Thats just bullshit, as there's NO way he would've survived. Its Kingdom of the Crystal Skull nuke-the-bat style and it doesn't work and I'm surprised others aren't criticizing this in the general public the way they did with KOTCS. YOU CANNOT SURVIVE A NUCLEAR BLAST. Thats all there is to say about that.

As an amusing aside, the film director Rob Cohen (XXX, Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story) sat behind us with one of his buddies and was bitching about how some studio isn't interested in a pilot he's pitching cause it isn't "wrapped around some big star." Apparently its wrapped around Josh Lucas whom they say doesn't have star wattage. And he was fucking loud during the 1st half hour when an elderly lady told him to shut up.

[matrixschmatrix]

To be clear about the ending:

Spoiler

The implication is not that he went through the blast and survived. It's that he was not actuallyin the Bat at the time, having set the autopilot and ejected at some earlier point.

That's not to say the setup isn't kind of absurd- for one thing, detonating a nuclear weapon with a 50+ mile radius a couple miles out would still kill pretty much everyone, to say nothing of potential tsunamis and Godzillas- but Batman wouldn't be in any more danger than anyone else.

[Professor Wagstaff]

Something I've come to admire about Christopher Nolan is his decision to cast the smaller but significant roles with character actors who haven't been in major studio films for many years. Matthew Modine has always been a personal favorite and I'm sorry to say that the most recent film I'd seen him in was Any Given Sunday from 13 years ago. There's probably not a lot of flashiness to his role as Foley to make him really stand out for the average filmgoer, but his part shows that he still has the strong presence he did at the height of his career (shown particularly when he commanded the police in the third act showdown). I hope casting agents take notice of how much value he still has as an actor.

[stroszeck]

(shown particularly when he commanded the police.

THanks you just reminded me of another huge issue I had. Are we to believe that:

Spoiler

the ENTIRE police force (comprising apparently of 3 or 4000 cops) would be all sent in one same spot at the same time? Only to be trapped for months? And also how the hell does JGL character just "know" that Wayne is Batman? And so close to the beginning. By the time Gordon figures it out its almost a moment where you feel like yelling at the screen instead of feeling some poignancy. And how the hell did Wayne just pop up everywhere after he was left for dead in the prison? He gets out and just randomly shows up to stalk Selina and then JGL and Gordon? How does he get back on the quarantined island? Am I seriously missing stuff here or is this all, as the joker would say "part of the plan?"

Actually instead of writing a bunch of posts where I bitch and moan, let me refer everyone to an article that for the most part summarizes a lot of issues I also had (WARNING: The article contains TONS of spoilers)
http://www.slashfilm.com/15-bothered-th ... ght-rises/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[R0lf]

Regarding the bomb being unrealistic I took this quote from wikipedia.

"Neutron bombs are purposely designed with explosive yields lower than other nuclear weapons.[citation needed] This is because neutrons are absorbed by air[citation needed], so a high-yield neutron bomb is not able to radiate neutrons beyond its blast range and so would have no destructive advantage over a normal hydrogen bomb. This intense pulse of high-energy neutrons is intended as the principal killing mechanism, not the fallout, heat or blast. Although neutron bombs are commonly believed to "leave the infrastructure intact", current designs have explosive yields in the kiloton range,[20] the detonation of which would cause considerable destruction through blast and heat effects."

So a neutron bomb doesn't effect anything outside it's blast radius and it doesn't have any fallout which would have ongoing effects on the city? A google image search shows the explosion formation in keeping with what was shown in the movie. So it looks like they did their research on this one?

[tachyonEvan]

People saying there were no stand-out performances might not have been watching the same movie I was.

Hardy was tremendous. I was astounded. Loved everything about his portrayal of the character.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Every review that I've read has praised Hathaway as a stand-out. I'm still waiting for Cotillard to get some attention, though. I never would have guessed that she'd be so great as an action film villainess.

Spoiler

Then again, her exit from the film was a lot better than Hardy's.

[Mr Sausage]

Spoiler

I don't wonder if Bane's actual death scene was cut for time. It felt oddly abrupt when I saw it, like there should've been more.

[flyonthewall2983]

Spoiler

It did feel a little like a death scene in reverse, considering the scene where the mask *almost* comes off. I was expecting his death scene would show what it looked like without it, but it probably would have been a too on-the-nose homage to Predator.

[cdnchris]

Spoiler

I don't wonder if Bane's actual death scene was cut for time. It felt oddly abrupt when I saw it, like there should've been more.

Spoiler

It was bizarre considering he was a such a big presence in the film and a worthy villain. He was dispatched almost like he was an afterthought. I like Nolan, but he still has a weakness with action sequences and I'm wondering if he just didn't know how to film it or properly write it... maybe? It was also kind of disappointing Catwoman was the one to take him out.

Having said, that, though, I did find the action scenes far easier to see and follow in this one in comparison to The Dark Knight.

I thought Cotillard was good as well, but I think Hathaway might be getting a lot of praise simply because everyone (especially me) was surprised the Catwoman character actually worked in this film. Maybe I'm the only one but when I heard Catwoman was going to be in this with Bane (of all pairings) I just rolled my eyes. And like Jeff I liked that her goggles made the cat ears.

Overall I liked this. It's decent conclusion and went by fairly fast, surprising since I was dreading the 3 hours. Amazingly it still felt like they were compressing a lot in this.

[flyonthewall2983]

Christopher Nolan's farewell letter to the franchise

[captveg]

In regards to the bomb R0lf is correct - it's a fusion bomb, not fission. Think Hiroshima, wherein there's much smaller radius of nuclear fallout.

[Matt]

Ideas for a series of "Bane in Conversation" spin-off short films:

Bane has a parent-teacher conference with his son Charlie Brown's teacher
Bane orders dinner at the Taco Bell drive-thru
Bane discusses confinement with Rob Brydon's Small Man in a Box
Bane discusses urban infrastructure with a subway operator
Bane discusses political reform with William F. Buckley (who has a severe cold)
Bane dicks around on a TI-99 4A

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Bane discusses political reform with William F. Buckley (who has a severe cold)

Best ep of Firing Line ever.

[solaris72]

People saying there were no stand-out performances might not have been watching the same movie I was.

Hardy was tremendous. I was astounded. Loved everything about his portrayal of the character.

Really? I couldn't stop laughing every time he spoke. The image of a jaunty cartoon walrus man in a three piece suit smoking a cigar kept popping into my head. During his big speech in front of the prison I completely lost it.

[tachyonEvan]

People saying there were no stand-out performances might not have been watching the same movie I was.

Hardy was tremendous. I was astounded. Loved everything about his portrayal of the character.

Really? I couldn't stop laughing every time he spoke. The image of a jaunty cartoon walrus man in a three piece suit smoking a cigar kept popping into my head. During his big speech in front of the prison I completely lost it.

Well, that's silly. I thought he was an excellent villain. Very chilling. The voice was brilliant - whimsy with such terrifying power behind it.