criterionforum.org

That former secretary who played the wife in Faces is phenomenal, totally earned her Oscar nomination

domino harvey wrote:That former secretary who played the wife in Faces is phenomenal, totally earned her Oscar nomination

She's also great in Milos Forman's Taking Off.

Cold Bishop wrote:

domino harvey wrote:That former secretary who played the wife in Faces is phenomenal, totally earned her Oscar nomination

She's also great in Milos Forman's Taking Off.

I just looked this up and it sounds great. Is it out somewhere?

domino harvey wrote:

Cold Bishop wrote:

domino harvey wrote:That former secretary who played the wife in Faces is phenomenal, totally earned her Oscar nomination

She's also great in Milos Forman's Taking Off.

I just looked this up and it sounds great. Is it out somewhere?

Nope; I'm hopin' Criterion picks it up from Universal one of these days...

domino harvey wrote:I just looked this up and it sounds great. Is it out somewhere?

No, but I just caught what looked like a fairly new 35mm a few weeks ago, so I have fingers crossed. The Forman retrospective appears to be touring (although Portland usually spells it's near its end) so depending on location, you might be able to catch it still. Probably the best thing Forman did in America, and certainly tops the overrated One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Amadeus. Just beautifully graceful and effortless, without succombing to the obnoxiousness of most of the 60s "generation gap" films. And who knew that Kathy "Bobo" Bates was a decent folk singer?

Its also on Youtube, so higher quality bootlegs shouldn't be hard to come by.

Just curious Michael, Matt, Domino- what is it about Gena Rowlands you find annoying or inauthentic? I do think she can come off as a little too practiced in some films (Cassavetes Gloria comes to my mind, which I don't like at all), but I really was blown away by her turns in Woman and Opening Night, especially the latter. The whole self-reflexivity of the movie is fascinating to me, but her performance seals the deal: I think its sublime.

I will admit I haven't seen much of her work outside of her husband's films, but I've always felt she inhabited characters very well. The scene where she greets her kids at the bus stop in A Woman Under the Influence broke my heart a little. I've known people like her, although definitely to a less extreme degree

HypnoHelioStaticStasis wrote:Chrisandy, Chinese Bookie is a dense, dense film, to say the least. It has a peculiar rhythm that few filmmakers besides Cassavetes have ever achieved, one that lurches and so forth. One shouldn't go in expecting a De Palma style blowdown or a Scorsese take on honor among thieves. This film is arguably his most personal film in the box (I tend to think Opening Night is), one that explores the notion of art vs. commerce in a very unusual way. The film is, unlike a lot of gangster films, strictly about the business and day to day life of small time hustlers; it doesn't try to ennoble anybody, especially not Gazzara, who is brilliant here. The gunfight at the end is Cassavetes' ultimate compromise: this is what the audience is looking for, he seems to be conceding. But I think he peels it back to show how futile it all is.

I respect the root intention of Killing of a Chinese Bookie and understand it's different in how it examines it's character. I don't go into gangster movies expecting something as bombastic as DePalma or as noisy as Scorsese. I thought it went on for too long, I didn't especially care for the plight of the protagonist or his cohorts...

I think Altman's The Long Goodbye is a great example of an untraditional, character-driven neonoir. For my money, DePalma's style comes off as more jarring and amateur and Scorsese's reliance on the old narrative and his films being focused more on people than anything else bother me.

I think I understood the point of the film, but I didn't especially care for it nor did I care for the way the film was made.

It is one of the few sets I brought with me when I moved from home, so I'll probably give one of the other movies a shot at some point. Thanks for the recommendations.

Rowlands is a classic dinner theater actor, thinking everyone is watching her at her at all times, and her husband refused to keep her "Look at me!"-isms in check. Cassavetes played her weaknesses as strengths in Faces and even there she's still the weakest link.

Chrisandy- I'm glad to hear you weren't expecting some kind of variation on Scarface or Goodfellas. I'll concede that Cassavetes just isn't for everybody, as you can plainly see from some of the other posts on this board. His style gets under my skin for reasons I can't explain; he gets to the heart of things for me. And I agree with you about The Long Goodbye: beautiful, beautiful, though I think a key difference here is Altman's comedic approach to Marlowe and his crew. It's a good comparison, but I think he and Cassavetes had slightly different goals.

Maybe just go chronological and go with Shadows. Awful sound, amateurish indoor photography, but one of the most evocative films I've ever seen. Near perfect for me.

Domino- I grew up in the theatre thanks to my parents, so my basis for good acting and bad acting can often be explained back to my observing from the wings of a crappy dinner theater or college auditorium. I think where you and I diverge is how we respond to something like that: I really don't mind it so much, as long as its in the proper context. Your opinion of Rowlands is definitely understandable, especially for Woman ; her constant thumb-and-fart-noises are grating and distracting, but I doubt Cassavetes was unaware of that, and I think they work for the character actually. He seemed pretty adept at directing his wife, methinks.[/i]

HypnoHelioStaticStasis wrote:Just curious Michael, Matt, Domino- what is it about Gena Rowlands you find annoying or inauthentic?

domino harvey wrote:Rowlands is a classic dinner theater actor, thinking everyone is watching her at her at all times, and her husband refused to keep her "Look at me!"-isms in check.

I don't think I can add much to this. She seems uninterested in acting with whoever else is on screen and is much more concerned with making sure you know, at all times, that she is a VERY SERIOUS AND IMPORTANT ACTRESS. I'm not a scholar of acting (but I know what I like and dislike), so I can't quite articulate exactly what it is I don't like about her. There seems to be a lot of false sincerity in her performances.

I do like the staginess and artificiality of Faces, and that makes it one of Rowlands' better films because it fits her performance style. And I admire the structure and premise of Opening Night, but Cassavetes' generous indulgence of Rowlands in the film just destroys it for me.

It's not only Cassavetes films but also mainstream films like The Notebook. Rowlands always trying too hard to be, hmm the next Bette Davis or Lauren Bacall, is very grating. I'm blinded to any speck of soul or passion Rowlands might instill in her craft. Almodovar and many other people see it and I don't. For instance, look at her work as a mentally ill woman and now compare her to Emily Watson in Breaking the Waves. I know that's lame but still...

Gena can do no wrong (as an actress, that is; as a Cassavetes gatekeeper in the Ray Carney wars, not so much). This is heresy.

Big Hope Floats fan, then, huh?

There's a difference between the best acting and the most acting

Matt wrote:Big Hope Floats fan, then, huh?

Well, at least the guy who writes the Netflix blurbs seems to be:

Young mother Sandra Bullock returns to her Texas hometown after learning (on national television) that her husband has been unfaithful. Humiliated, Bullock tries to build a new life for herself and her lonely daughter. Bullock's mother (the great Gena Rowlands) plays matchmaker with a local nice guy (Harry Connick Jr.). But will good intentions and bad timing spoil a potentially great match?

Can't argue with that.

P.S. For the record, I do find her riveting in Woman. Surprised to see I'm in the minority on this one.

I like her in Woman for the same reason that domino likes her in Faces. I find her attention hogging and over the top demeanor to really fit someone with problems like her character's.

swo17 wrote:P.S. For the record, I do find her riveting in Woman. Surprised to see I'm in the minority on this one.

Know who I find the most fascinating in Woman? Peter Falk's mother. She's fabulous!

When did hating on Gena Rowlands become the new hip thing to do? Damn, I need to subscribe to the film snob newsletter or something.

It's not that this is a new trend, it's more likely that after several pages of Cassavetes blowjobs, a voice of dissent was finally raised and others who hesitated before could now freely express their opinions without having to be the first shot fired.

mteller wrote:When did hating on Gena Rowlands become the new hip thing to do? Damn, I need to subscribe to the film snob newsletter or something.

What is wrong with you? There is a share of Gena lovers and haters here. She rubs me in the same way as Barbara Streisand as an actress so I guess that makes hating Barbara a new hip thing to do now. Why can't I hate an actress or two? Many, many actresses I worship: Bette Davis, Anna Magnani, Barbara Stanwyck, Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Laura Dern, Lily Tomlin, Shelley Duvall.. and so many more. And of course, Falconetti!

I started "hating on" Rowlands at least three-and-a-half years ago. If this is now trendy, it's been a long time brewing.

Sorry guys, John beat us all by many years in hating on Gena.

justeleblanc wrote:Sorry guys, John beat us all by many years

as usual

Michael wrote: What is wrong with you? There is a share of Gena lovers and haters here. She rubs me in the same way as Barbara Streisand as an actress so I guess that makes hating Barbara a new hip thing to do now. Why can't I hate an actress or two? Many, many actresses I worship: Bette Davis, Anna Magnani, Barbara Stanwyck, Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Laura Dern, Lily Tomlin, Shelley Duvall.. and so many more. And of course, Falconetti!

You know, its funny, you and I have very similar tastes in actresses. I loathe Streisand, she has never created a believable or likable character for me, and I love nearly all of the ones you cite as your favorites... but I gotta wonder: you don't think Bette Davis and Lily Tomlin have had their fair share of "look at me!" roles?

I think what Almodovar sees in Rowlands (that I think I see as well) is a nakedness to the way she performs; what can be seen as over-the-top or indulgent to some may in fact be just a performance done in the utmost extreme, which is almost certainly what Cassavetes wanted: a worst-case scenario. Whether you think thats a good way of telling this story is up to you and you alone. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

Is it just me, or is it hard to articulate what it is you love about your favorites in cinema (or otherwise, I guess)? Its not so easy to write about Cassavetes for me (my mind is a lot more lucid than my hand), his films hit me to the core. If you don't like them, all the power to you. Makes me feel like I belong that Certain Special Clubhouse

But's that why I love this forum: great discourse like this.

And i agree with your earlier post about the actress who plays Falk's mother in Woman. Talk about authentic!

HypnoHelioStaticStasis wrote:the actress who plays Falk's mother in Woman. Talk about authentic!

I believe that actress is actually John Cassavetes' own mother.