Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[MovieBuff647]

DOCTOR ZHIVAGO has a 4K DCP! This is one I can see coming from WBHE, Warner Archive, or Criterion.

https://www.academymuseum.org/programs/ ... c983b6d891

This DCP has been around for a while and the bd was from the same 4k master.

Well nevermind. Looks like I was wrong lol.

I remember reading Robert Harris said the negatives were horrible shape and likely could not be scanned again back when that ancient VC-1 BD came out so chances are this will either be sourced from the same raw scan or even the same base restoration as that disc but obviously will be an improvement given HVEC + AVC and all being encoded by FiM.

[jedgeco]

DOCTOR ZHIVAGO 4K coming 12/1 from WAC!!!

It was me: I'm the one who just bought a copy of the overpriced Digibook bluray.

[farfisasynth]

Apologies if asked before but do we think that William Greaves' ONCE UPON A TIME IN HARLEM will be released by Criterion after it makes its theatrical run???

[Matt]

It's certainly possible. Criterion has released several films distributed by Neon, they have an existing relationship with Greaves, and Janus Films has distribution rights to a bunch of Greaves' films.

[malachi_lui]

Of the major festival movies this year that Neon is distributing, I think that the Hamaguchi, Mungiu, and Greaves films are all likely to get Criterion releases next year, consider Criterion's relationship with Neon and their prior releases of those directors' works.

[Drucker]

This DCP has been around for a while and the bd was from the same 4k master.

Well nevermind. Looks like I was wrong lol.

I remember reading Robert Harris said the negatives were horrible shape and likely could not be scanned again back when that ancient VC-1 BD came out so chances are this will either be sourced from the same raw scan or even the same base restoration as that disc but obviously will be an improvement given HVEC + AVC and all being encoded by FiM.

Purely speculating, but it really does feel like the advances in restoration and film scanning technology probably are dramatically superior to what they were nearly 20 years ago (!) at this point, so maybe this isn't the case. Look what they've achieved with the Satyajit Ray films!

[Michael_Ma]

While browsing on the Criterion web site, I noticed a number of apparent HD screenshots on the page for Lattuada's Mafioso, which was previously released on a now OOP DVD. Could this be an indication of an upcoming HD update?

[MovieBuff647]

Of the major festival movies this year that Neon is distributing, I think that the Hamaguchi, Mungiu, and Greaves films are all likely to get Criterion releases next year, consider Criterion's relationship with Neon and their prior releases of those directors' works.

I wouldn't rule out PAPER TIGER either given Criterion have a great relationship with James Gray, plus the fact that NEON are also handling UK distribution for that one, so Criterion can easily secure both the US and UK licenses.

[Finch]

Studio Canal release of a To Be Or Not To Be 4K coming next January so this upgrade is hopefully on Criterion's slate sometime in 2027 too.

[MannFan]

Nice. Thats a favorite film of mine, and if they worked wonders for Trouble in Paradise in 4K, they could do that for this one too.

[FrauBlucher]

Criterion has only released 3 Italian films on 4k. Very surprising as this group is one of the prestiges of world cinema

[Mr.DarjeelingLimited]

8 1/2, Shoeshine, and Divorce Italian Style, if I recall correctly are the three.

[Matt]

I think part of it could be declining popular cachet of Italian art cinema. The highest-ranked Italian film on the 2022 Sight and Sound critics' list was 8½ at #31. That's down from #10 in 2012. Bicycle Thieves was at #41 in 2022, down from #33 in 2012. L'Avventura fell to #71 in 2022 from #21 in 2012.

All the big European cinema names Janus Films and the Criterion Collection built their names on, what we have come to think of as the "canon"—Fellini, Bergman, Antonioni, De Sica, et al—are now, I think, the icons of a fading generation. It's definitely good that previously under-sung directors—particularly women such as Claire Denis, Chantal Akerman, Agnès Varda, and Věra Chytilová—have risen in popular esteem. But it can definitely seem as if those older filmmakers are being unjustly neglected.

Criterion simply has to go where the money is now, which is apparently Classic Hollywood, New Hollywood, 80s and 90s Hollywood and "popular arthouse" (such as The English Patient, Drugstore Cowboy, Farewell My Concubine, The Crying Game), and Asian genre cinema.

[Mr.DarjeelingLimited]

I’m still pretty young and in film school and everyone there tends to lean towards New Hollywood and the occasional Wong Kar-Wai, Kurosawa, and/or Hitchcock film as their own personal canon. Now to be fair most of the people there are younger than me as it’s community college and I graduated high school and took a two and a half year gap year and have now been in college for three years, but still it’s been interesting to see how much of my generation doesn’t know Fellini, Renoir, Ozu, and Bresson.

[FrauBlucher]

Matt, that was a depressing read

[Lowry_Sam]

Judging by BAMPFA's screenings of 4K restorations this past summer, it seems for films from the 50s & 60s, French directors are the most popular (most sold out in advance), followed by Hong Kong & Chinese (80s & 90s), followed by Japanese (especially anime), & none of the Italian films sold out & seemed to have the fewest in attendance. When I was in NYC over the summer most of the Italian films @ Lincoln Center seemed to be sparsely to moderately attended with only 1900 & The Conformist selling out in advance.

[Toby Dammit]

I think part of it could be declining popular cachet of Italian art cinema. The highest-ranked Italian film on the 2022 Sight and Sound critics' list was 8½ at #31. That's down from #10 in 2012. Bicycle Thieves was at #41 in 2022, down from #33 in 2012. L'Avventura fell to #71 in 2022 from #21 in 2012.

All the big European cinema names Janus Films and the Criterion Collection built their names on, what we have come to think of as the "canon"—Fellini, Bergman, Antonioni, De Sica, et al—are now, I think, the icons of a fading generation. It's definitely good that previously under-sung directors—particularly women such as Claire Denis, Chantal Akerman, Agnès Varda, and Věra Chytilová—have risen in popular esteem. But it can definitely seem as if those older filmmakers are being unjustly neglected.

Criterion simply has to go where the money is now, which is apparently Classic Hollywood, New Hollywood, 80s and 90s Hollywood and "popular arthouse" (such as The English Patient, Drugstore Cowboy, Farewell My Concubine, The Crying Game), and Asian genre cinema.

What you're saying breaks my heart. Italian cinema is my greatest love. Thinking of a future where the memory of Visconti, Pasolini, Antonioni, and others fades away shudders me. But coming back to the reality of the Criterion catalog, there are still great titles to tap into. For me, it's mind-boggling that they didn't release The Leopard in 4K last year (the Netflix series was a great opportunity for free promo) or that it's taking them so long to re-release Salò.

[HardNight'sDay]

For me, it's mind-boggling that they didn't release The Leopard in 4K last year (the Netflix series was a great opportunity for free promo) or that it's taking them so long to re-release Salò.

To be fair to Criterion, The Leopard is a Disney owned title because of the Fox buyout. There's a good chance that Disney is playing hard ball with them. Hell, I'm not sure if we're ever going to see The French Connection or an upgrade of Spellbound anytime soon.

[Peter McM]

Anybody know a start date for the November Barnes and Noble sale?

[onedimension]

I think part of it could be declining popular cachet of Italian art cinema. The highest-ranked Italian film on the 2022 Sight and Sound critics' list was 8½ at #31. That's down from #10 in 2012. Bicycle Thieves was at #41 in 2022, down from #33 in 2012. L'Avventura fell to #71 in 2022 from #21 in 2012.

All the big European cinema names Janus Films and the Criterion Collection built their names on, what we have come to think of as the "canon"—Fellini, Bergman, Antonioni, De Sica, et al—are now, I think, the icons of a fading generation. It's definitely good that previously under-sung directors—particularly women such as Claire Denis, Chantal Akerman, Agnès Varda, and Věra Chytilová—have risen in popular esteem. But it can definitely seem as if those older filmmakers are being unjustly neglected.

Criterion simply has to go where the money is now, which is apparently Classic Hollywood, New Hollywood, 80s and 90s Hollywood and "popular arthouse" (such as The English Patient, Drugstore Cowboy, Farewell My Concubine, The Crying Game), and Asian genre cinema.

Criterion inclusion functions as a kind of "canon" - partly from the history of Janus Films - but the spine numbers keep going up. The Shop Around The Corner in December is #1340. It's an interesting tension. They have to choose new films to spotlight, or to elevate - but in addition to the "canon" model, there's a "connoisseurship" model, which accommodates more variety and encourages individual discretion (your personal canon) and, a "cultural archive" model for films that marked an era but didn't ace the test of time, a "completist" model (release Scorsese's short films, make sure to represent the breadth of global cinema), plus the "consumerist"/capitalist model, which can be generously agnostic about other people's pleasures (The English Patient, or K-Pop Demon Hunters).

They've only been releasing UHDs for five years, but I wish they'd catch up on Euro directors with 4K upgrades and new box sets: Fellini, Bergman, Antonioni, De Sica, Visconti, Renoir, Dreyer, Godard, Rohmer, Bresson, Cocteau, Marcel Carne, Fritz Lang, Fassbinder. At least Truffaut is finally getting love.

[Drucker]

But as we've seen several times, there are cases where a UHD just ain't worth it and the restoration and elements cannot be made to be worth it. I'm not saying that applies universally to the above, but we know it's mostly the case with Rules of the Game and I have to imagine it also applies to Lang's German titles.

If you're 15, 20, or 25 and seriously seeking out film for the first time, Fellini, Bergman, and Godard films remain in-print and available from Criterion. I'm not sure what more could be expected from them, personally.

[onedimension]

But as we've seen several times, there are cases where a UHD just ain't worth it and the restoration and elements cannot be made to be worth it. I'm not saying that applies universally to the above, but we know it's mostly the case with Rules of the Game and I have to imagine it also applies to Lang's German titles.

If you're 15, 20, or 25 and seriously seeking out film for the first time, Fellini, Bergman, and Godard films remain in-print and available from Criterion. I'm not sure what more could be expected from them, personally.

Off the top of my head, I know Cocteau's La Belle et La Bete has a 4k restoration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTeqENcUKk4, Dreyer's Joan of Arc has a beautiful 4K restoration - both Janus Films!

Apart from element condition and restoration quality, I know the UHD format doesn't always add much value when a blu ray was exceptionally well done. Except Criterion releases plenty of upgrades where the blu to 4K difference is marginal.

Maybe if I get bored or motivated I'll dive into the "4K-ableness" of the Janus library.

[FrauBlucher]

I didn’t think my comment would create this kind of conversation. I thought maybe the answer would’ve been simple, like not enough 4k restorations, but the points being made are right on sorry to say, sadly. We are locked into our own little time capsules and don’t think enough about our changing times. Especially now. As I responded to Matt by calling his comments depressing largely because we see our likes in the rear view mirror of society. Hopefully, it doesn’t disappear into that mirror. I don’t think it will. I certainly believe in cycles.

For me, the greatest decade in world cinema history is the 60s. And Italian cinema had a lot to do with that, along with the new waves, Bergman and the Japanese greats from that era. So, I do think it will circle back as time goes by. I do understand Criterion’s somewhat of a predicament of canonical sensibilities but also having to feed into modern tastes to stay relevant, having chosen the latter at this current point

[Michael_Ma]

The interest in certain eras of auteur cinema, such as the Italian 50s and 60s period, could indeed come and go in terms of contemporary focus. The issue I'd highlight is, given the decreasing physical media market and the option of having such films put on streaming platforms, whether it is less likely to see these periods of cinema represented on disc going forward, save for a few very popular titles. Criterion could be content with having the output of filmmakers such as those mentioned above on their Channel and not bother with physical releases, especially if the sales are projected to be unsatisfactory.
Perhaps using the Eclipse line to bundle together some relevant titles could help increase the output and generate more interest and sales. Or perhaps other labels could step in and fill some gaps.
Being myself very fond of Italian cinema, i've been especially grateful for Radiance's commitment to it so far.