UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[M-A]

Lost Highway is getting released in France by Potemkine, but no word yet on the quality of the encode and whether or not it has forced subs. Tenia may know something there perhaps.

As much as I loved Millennium Mambo when I watched it in the cinema the €40 price tag is giving me cold feet. Saying that, I just spent €35 on Carlotta’s Blu-ray release of Satantango the other day. True, it’s a seven hour film requiring multiple discs so maybe not an apples to apples comparison.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=19

[nicolas]

Lost Highway is getting released in France by Potemkine, but no word yet on the quality of the encode and whether or not it has forced subs. Tenia may know something there perhaps.

As much as I loved Millennium Mambo when I watched it in the cinema the €40 price tag is giving me cold feet. Saying that, I just spent €35 on Carlotta’s Blu-ray release of Satantango the other day. True, it’s a seven hour film requiring multiple discs so maybe not an apples to apples comparison.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=19

I expect that players like the Panasonics can move them off screen. Looking forward to hear thoughts on the encode as it would be really nice if Potemkine finally stepped up their game from the dreadful Three Colors UHDs. Otherwise we’ll have to rely on Criterion for Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

[Finch]

The Potemkine 4ks so far seem to be poorly encoded and if Lost Highway has forced subs, FWWM will have them, too. The film is still my favorite part of the Twin Peaks canon so I'm really hoping that they won't make US & UK buyers wait for a 4k set of the show's three seasons plus the film because that could take quite a while still, and I'd happily get a CC standalone UHD of the film, especially since my Complete Mystery copy of the film has the slightly out of sync audio.

[therewillbeblus]

The FWWM on the Twin Peaks set has out of sync audio? I had no idea - I thought it was the exact same disc as the Criterion with the exception of the two interviews..

[Big Ben]

The FWWM on the Twin Peaks set has out of sync audio? I had no idea - I thought it was the exact same disc as the Criterion with the exception of the two interviews..

For what it's worth the big box set of Twin Peaks (Z to A) has a bunch of odd audio issues. Obviously with Lynch I expect things to sound a certain way but there there was more than a few times when I went "No that's clearly not an equipment or auteur issue". The audio dips in and out in a noticeable manner and it's to the point that it was distracting.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Lost Highway is getting released in France by Potemkine, but no word yet on the quality of the encode and whether or not it has forced subs. Tenia may know something there perhaps.

As much as I loved Millennium Mambo when I watched it in the cinema the €40 price tag is giving me cold feet. Saying that, I just spent €35 on Carlotta’s Blu-ray release of Satantango the other day. True, it’s a seven hour film requiring multiple discs so maybe not an apples to apples comparison.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=19

I expect that players like the Panasonics can move them off screen. Looking forward to hear thoughts on the encode as it would be really nice if Potemkine finally stepped up their game from the dreadful Three Colors UHDs. Otherwise we’ll have to rely on Criterion for Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

A lot of Potemkine blu-ray are like that; that's why I tend to avoid these titles; even if the visual of Steelbook looks good.

regarding "Millenium Mambo" this is my first order at Spectrum and I had to mail them to ask why my order was still in pending status since May 25. They just shipped it yesterday; I hope that this will arrive (we are both in France, me and Spectrum shop).
This will be the UHD+Blu-Ray combo. I sincerely hope that the subtitles are not ingrained; when "forced" I can move the subtitles (at worst) near the bottom of the screen to make them disappear.
That is what I have to do with "L'enfer" (Torment) Claude Chabrol release by Cohen Blu-Ray.
I can reply about the subtitles when I will have received my copy of Millenium Mambo if you want.

[therewillbeblus]

The FWWM on the Twin Peaks set has out of sync audio? I had no idea - I thought it was the exact same disc as the Criterion with the exception of the two interviews..

For what it's worth the big box set of Twin Peaks (Z to A) has a bunch of odd audio issues. Obviously with Lynch I expect things to sound a certain way but there there was more than a few times when I went "No that's clearly not an equipment or auteur issue". The audio dips in and out in a noticeable manner and it's to the point that it was distracting.

I don’t recall this being mentioned in any of the reviews which compared the Criterion as superfluously identical and not worth double dipping for - I just sold mine off, and am immediately regretting that decision! You’d’ve thought more kudos would be acknowledged to fixing audio issues..

[Finch]

At least the first run of the Complete Mystery BD set had out of sync issues on the film and some episodes of the second season, I believe. I don't know if Paramount fixed it on the re-issues that had regular multi-disc keep cases instead of the fancy-schmancy fold-out packaging.

[tenia]

regarding "Millenium Mambo" I sincerely hope that the subtitles are not ingrained; when "forced" I can move the subtitles (at worst) near the bottom of the screen to make them disappear.

They're not burnt-in on the BD (and thus doubt they are on the UHD). I haven't checked if they're forced or optional yet, though.

[nicolas]

Good news regarding Millennium Mambo UHD. Spectrum‘s disc is a winner and by far the best French (non-FiM) catalogue UHD encode since The Jokers‘ JSA and Memories of Murder

The film looks very, very beautiful in 4K. The disc is a BD-66 with only the film on it. As previously mentioned, HDR10 and Dolby Vision is available and apparently commissioned / made by Spectrum themselves. Both grades are very good. Tasteful, no artificial “pop” and (I assume) to bring out the best in Hou Hou-hsien & Mark Lee Ping Bing’s color palette.

I only took a quick look at the disc (will see the film in HDR10 due to remuxing) but I highly doubt that Kino Lorber / Metrograph’s disc will come close. As of publishing my post, I’ve already canceled my order. It’s a great shame that they decided against an English-friendly UHD when it’s clearly proven that arthouse titles can sell well (Eternal Sunshine and the rapturous early response re. Lost in Translation).

Our infamous bright highlights (for example in lamps, skies, candles etc.) which have been all but clipped in other French 4Ks by bad encodes look really beautiful here. We can actually make out a small layer of grain!

Again, based on my random spot check, I couldn’t see any faults in the encode apart from one shot of an office building (?) near the end. A small portion of the image gets slightly blocky there (on the corners) but it’s really no big deal at all in the grand scheme.

As always, I can’t really comment on the audio due to lack of experience / equipment.

It’s a fantastic release and delivers more than I expected from such a small label. Based on that great of an impression (including a good amount of extras!), I’d highly recommend for anybody remotely interested in this release to buy their copies NOW as there are apparently less than 200 left. My limited edition number is 699 of 1000. Also, I’d recommend Spectrum to release an unnumbered print run as it would be a huge shame if this gem of a disc is prohibited the longevity and exposure it deserves. So many other worse discs stick around for eternity but real quality work dies out way too soon.

Packaging pictures see BR.com or here:

https://ibb.co/17RFDY2
https://ibb.co/F510r0v
https://ibb.co/sQy572Q
https://ibb.co/0QtpzFC
https://ibb.co/BPmQTPM
https://ibb.co/ZRsN1Vd

[nicolas]

Also received my Showgirls 4K today and it’s easily the best VS UHD encode I’ve seen. Their previous ones have ridiculously high bitrates but some of the worst highlights I’ve seen (Thriller - they’re all clipped to death) and their HDR grades were way too hot.

Showgirls feels exactly right from what I’ve seen. The colors are gorgeous, grain comes across perfectly with no issues on first glance. There are details in these bright makeup chair lamps (don’t know the exact term) which can be made out exactly as they should be. No DV needed to fix anything.

Once the audio and subtitle issues are fixed, this will be a reference release and definitive for the film.

Edit: I’ve had Road House in the same package and while it’s nicely encoded similar to Showgirls, the HDR grading is slightly too saturated. But it’s nothing you can’t fix on the fly. On my Panasonic player, I set the color balance in the HDR settings to -7 and the image looks a lot better straight away.

[Roger Ryan]

At least the first run of the Complete Mystery BD set had out of sync issues on the film and some episodes of the second season, I believe. I don't know if Paramount fixed it on the re-issues that had regular multi-disc keep cases instead of the fancy-schmancy fold-out packaging.

I don't know if this issue was fixed either, but I always switch off my Blu-ray player's 24p output when playing FWWM from the Twin Peaks box set; although the resolution becomes 1080p/60 (as opposed to 1080p/24), the audio sync problem is corrected. There are a handful of other releases, such as MGM's Annie Hall, where the audio sync issue can be corrected this way. Could this be due to the audio track being mistakenly synced to the NTSC video standard of 30 frames per second instead of 24 frames per second?

[nicolas]

Good news regarding Millennium Mambo UHD. Spectrum‘s disc is a winner and by far the best French (non-FiM) catalogue UHD encode since The Jokers‘ JSA and Memories of Murder

The film looks very, very beautiful in 4K. The disc is a BD-66 with only the film on it. As previously mentioned, HDR10 and Dolby Vision is available and apparently commissioned / made by Spectrum themselves. Both grades are very good. Tasteful, no artificial “pop” and (I assume) to bring out the best in Hou Hou-hsien & Mark Lee Ping Bing’s color palette.

I only took a quick look at the disc (will see the film in HDR10 due to remuxing) but I highly doubt that Kino Lorber / Metrograph’s disc will come close. As of publishing my post, I’ve already canceled my order. It’s a great shame that they decided against an English-friendly UHD when it’s clearly proven that arthouse titles can sell well (Eternal Sunshine and the rapturous early response re. Lost in Translation).

Our infamous bright highlights (for example in lamps, skies, candles etc.) which have been all but clipped in other French 4Ks by bad encodes look really beautiful here. We can actually make out a small layer of grain!

Again, based on my random spot check, I couldn’t see any faults in the encode apart from one shot of an office building (?) near the end. A small portion of the image gets slightly blocky there (on the corners) but it’s really no big deal at all in the grand scheme.

As always, I can’t really comment on the audio due to lack of experience / equipment.

It’s a fantastic release and delivers more than I expected from such a small label. Based on that great of an impression (including a good amount of extras!), I’d highly recommend for anybody remotely interested in this release to buy their copies NOW as there are apparently less than 200 left. My limited edition number is 699 of 1000. Also, I’d recommend Spectrum to release an unnumbered print run as it would be a huge shame if this gem of a disc is prohibited the longevity and exposure it deserves. So many other worse discs stick around for eternity but real quality work dies out way too soon.

Packaging pictures see BR.com or here:

https://ibb.co/17RFDY2
https://ibb.co/F510r0v
https://ibb.co/sQy572Q
https://ibb.co/0QtpzFC
https://ibb.co/BPmQTPM
https://ibb.co/ZRsN1Vd

I made Spectrum aware of my post and they immediately responded. I asked about maybe extending the print run but they didn’t answer that question. They told me that the HDR / DV master is indeed theirs and no other company has asked for it so far.

They also generously shared some of their upcoming 4K UHD titles with me, although I’m not sure if I can disclose it.

If you have the release and are happy with it, let them know and what other titles you’d buy from them. I mentioned more Hou or other "arthouse" directors like Edward Yang in 4K. They currently aren’t on the list they’re working on, so maybe the good response to this film will make them consider taking on this niche too.

For example Yang’s longer films would surely be breathtaking in UHD. I’ll take lots of Asian cinema straight away but dramas like this are my favorites.

[rrenault]

Well a bunch of Taiwanese New Wave films including Taipei Story, A Brighter Summer Day, and several other Hou films are with Carlotta in France, so they may undertake the task and with a FiM encode to boot.

[nicolas]

Well a bunch of Taiwanese New Wave films including Taipei Story, A Brighter Summer Day, and several other Hou films are with Carlotta in France, so they may undertake the task and with a FiM encode to boot.

I thought so already but mentioned these as “the kind of” films I’d love to see on the format too in addition to those they’ve planned. These go into another direction than Hou or Yang.

[tenia]

They also generously shared some of their upcoming 4K UHD titles with me, although I’m not sure if I can disclose it.

If I'm not mistaken, there should be Come Drink With Me, Suicide Club, Shin Godzilla and The Valiant Ones. Not sure if there are others though.

[nicolas]

They also generously shared some of their upcoming 4K UHD titles with me, although I’m not sure if I can disclose it.

If I'm not mistaken, there should be Come Drink With Me, Suicide Club, Shin Godzilla and The Valiant Ones. Not sure if there are others though.

Yes, these are the ones they told me as well. Interesting lineup.

[LateReg]

At least the first run of the Complete Mystery BD set had out of sync issues on the film and some episodes of the second season, I believe. I don't know if Paramount fixed it on the re-issues that had regular multi-disc keep cases instead of the fancy-schmancy fold-out packaging.

I don't know if this issue was fixed either, but I always switch off my Blu-ray player's 24p output when playing FWWM from the Twin Peaks box set; although the resolution becomes 1080p/60 (as opposed to 1080p/24), the audio sync problem is corrected. There are a handful of other releases, such as MGM's Annie Hall, where the audio sync issue can be corrected this way. Could this be due to the audio track being mistakenly synced to the NTSC video standard of 30 frames per second instead of 24 frames per second?

The issues were not fixed for the Twin Peaks Z - A box. They carried directly over as they are the same discs as in the Entire Mystery box. A small but very annoying audio sync issue in at least one episode. I never encountered the sync issue in FWWM, but there is a major sync issue in The Missing Pieces during 2 x 4 scene, which is also present on the Criterion disc. You are correct about switching off the 24p output to fix the issue in the episode (it always occurs during the smoked cheese pig scene for me), but I have never been able to solve the issue with the sync in the 2 x 4 scene in The Missing Pieces. Again, FWWM itself has always been perfect for me, across multiple players.

[AxeYou]

Good news regarding Millennium Mambo UHD. Spectrum‘s disc is a winner and by far the best French (non-FiM) catalogue UHD encode since The Jokers‘ JSA and Memories of Murder
...

Thank you nic for the review! Good to hear. I shall be eagerly waiting for my disc to arrive.

I only took a quick look at the disc (will see the film in HDR10 due to remuxing)

Given how much you've been remuxing, consider a Zidoo / Dune / Zappiti media player. They can handle MEL DV. On FEL remuxes, they'll ignore the EL, i.e. apply DV tone mapping metadata to the HDR10 BL only. I have the Zidoo Z9X. It's solid.

Sony's x700/x800 UHD player is another good pick because they support FEL files, but M2TS only. Here's a sheet with more detail on DV playback capabilities of various devices: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =427220017

[danbez]

Given how much you've been remuxing, consider a Zidoo / Dune / Zappiti media player. They can handle MEL DV. On FEL remuxes, they'll ignore the EL, i.e. apply DV tone mapping metadata to the HDR10 BL only. I have the Zidoo Z9X. It's solid.

Sony's x700/x800 UHD player is another good pick because they support FEL files, but M2TS only. Here's a sheet with more detail on DV playback capabilities of various devices: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =427220017

Well, by only consuming the RPU (dynamic metadata), Zidoo messes up with a number of FEL titles since the RPU expects the FEL layer to be applied as well. Some are obvious (like Saving Private Ryan), others not so much but still wrong since the brightness is modified by the FEL layer. There is a spreadsheet tracking all those cases here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

A better approach is to convert such titles to P8. As a result,the RPU will be accurate to the Base Layer, and ignore all enhancements from FEL.

[M-A]

Yeah I have the Sony X800M2 so that I can play back the FEL layer. Converting to .ts with tsmuxer isn't a very big inconvenience.

[nicolas]

Yeah I have the Sony X800M2 so that I can play back the FEL layer. Converting to .ts with tsmuxer isn't a very big inconvenience.

Thanks for the great information, Axe and M A. In order to preserve the FEL layer during the ripping phase, you‘ll have to do a full disc backup, right? I‘ll always just pick the file with the film and rip it straight to MKV which gives me HDR10.

[M-A]

Thanks for the great information, Axe and M A. In order to preserve the FEL layer during the ripping phase, you‘ll have to do a full disc backup, right? I‘ll always just pick the file with the film and rip it straight to MKV which gives me HDR10.

Doing a full disc will keep the FEL as a separate track, yes. I always do it this way since the spreadsheet says that some films cause a black screen if the FEL isn't a separate track.

[nicolas]

Thanks for the great information, Axe and M A. In order to preserve the FEL layer during the ripping phase, you‘ll have to do a full disc backup, right? I‘ll always just pick the file with the film and rip it straight to MKV which gives me HDR10.

Doing a full disc will keep the FEL as a separate track, yes. I always do it this way since the spreadsheet says that some films cause a black screen if the FEL isn't a separate track.

Thanks, I will try that with Millennium once the disc can be encrypted. In this case, DV doesn’t add much (if at all) since the base layer is very good already but it’ll be a testing ground for other French discs which would be unwatchable without DV.

[senseabove]

Sorry if I missed this: did anyone confirm whether the French subs on Millennium Mambo are forced?