Was there something wrong with the old one?
1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
I mean, they still are keeping the inaccurate translation for the title, so
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Something I noticed too.domino harvey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:30 pmI mean, they still are keeping the inaccurate translation for the title, so
It seems like contemporary cinema of the last few years keeps letting me down, but this film lives up to all the praise already expressed on here. Very excited to see this enter the collection.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
I 100% think it's because the distros were aware of the debate among the film's core audience in the states about the perceived ills of using the word "girl" to refer to women (and I'll save those of you who haven't figured it out already from Googling: the accurate translation would be "Portrait of the Young Girl on Fire")
- senseabove
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Wouldn't it also be "the" instead of "a"? Definite/indefinite doesn't always map strictly to the/a in going from French to English, but a quick googling and I can't find any actual portraits with a title that use "le" instead of "une," so its seems like it must have been a considered choice by Sciamma...
I just assumed the English title was also going for the pre-existing loose familiarity of the phrase "Portrait of a Lady"...
I just assumed the English title was also going for the pre-existing loose familiarity of the phrase "Portrait of a Lady"...
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Yes, you're right, I was misremembering "une" instead of "la"-- I guess I shouldn't have saved myself a Google! Fixed in my previous post now
- Never Cursed
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
This reminds me of a question I had to our French-speaking members: the English title of this film (however mistranslated) doesn't grammatically specify if it is the portrait or the young lady that is on fire (both are not inaccurate per the events of the film), but does the French title?
- soundchaser
- Leave Her to Beaver
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Nope - "en feu," the part in question, is a genderless prepositional phrase that could apply to either subject. Basically the same structure as in English. If the "on fire" bit were an adjective like "burning" or "aflame" we would know, since "portrait" is a masculine noun, but no such luck.Never Cursed wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:15 pmThis reminds me of a question I had to our French-speaking members: the English title of this film (however mistranslated) doesn't grammatically specify if it is the portrait or the young lady that is on fire (both are not inaccurate per the events of the film), but does the French title?
- swo17
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Better that way
- soundchaser
- Leave Her to Beaver
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
I don't disagree. ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- furbicide
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Love the cover! Can't wait to see this one again. (Also, interesting discussion above about the title – I was aware of the mistranslation, but the double meaning had never occurred to me!)
- Ribs
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
But I would also bear in mind that Celine Sciamma speaks fluent English and the movie’s English-language title has always been Portrait of a Lady on Fire since before the movie premiered and was acquired at Cannes. So it’s not really a mistranslation anymore than Pan’s Labyrinth is - it’s lightly changed to carry the meaning a little cleaner
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
"Portrait de la jeune fille en feu" (I'm french (sorrysoundchaser wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:20 pmNope - "en feu," the part in question, is a genderless prepositional phrase that could apply to either subject. Basically the same structure as in English. If the "on fire" bit were an adjective like "burning" or "aflame" we would know, since "portrait" is a masculine noun, but no such luck.Never Cursed wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:15 pmThis reminds me of a question I had to our French-speaking members: the English title of this film (however mistranslated) doesn't grammatically specify if it is the portrait or the young lady that is on fire (both are not inaccurate per the events of the film), but does the French title?
![Embarassed :oops:](./images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
I think that "Lady" was chosen because in the French dialogue of the movie, when the maid adresses or when they refer to Adel Haenel character, since this is a "film d'époque"; "Lady" was chosen in English because of Adel Haenel social "status" in this movie.
In French, I think that "jeune fille ne feu" works better, because she is still a "jeune fille" (coming out from the "covent"/"couvent) before this arranged marriage vs the character played by Noémie Merlant who obviously due to her profession of woman painter have more freedom but had to pay the price for it (there are some scenes which explains that although she is recognized as a painter she signed some painting (the Orphée painting with the signature of her father, and could not paint some men), etc...)
I remember that Kieslowski who asked help for the French dialogues for "La double vie de Véronique" choose different titles and was aware that "Véronique" (but he like this prénom and I totally agree it's a beautiful name). "Véronique" -> "Véro nique" which means Véro fucks. (same for the song "c'est Thérèse qui rit quand on la..." But he kept it and he was right.
by the way, the painting for the Criterion-cover is certainly done by Hélène Delmaire and was probably one of the unused suggested portrait for the movie - but I could be wrong.
I enjoy that Adel Hanel and Mlle Merlant have been interviewed by the Criterion collection. I think that Noémie Merlant is mesmerizing in this movie (her expressive dark eyes
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
![Embarassed :oops:](./images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
Of course I saw her recently in "Curiosia"
- MichaelB
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
One of the things that most impressed me about the film is the way that the paintings actually worked in context. I remember Michael Powell saying (and he was right) that he was never happy with the paintings in Age of Consent, which he envisaged as being far more luxuriantly sensual, but only realised that he’d hired the wrong guy when it was too late to do anything about it.Rupert Pupkin wrote:by the way, the painting for the Criterion-cover is certainly done by Hélène Delmaire and was probably one of the unused suggested portrait for the movie - but I could be wrong.
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
one of the thing about this movie I really enjoyed was that it shows the painting process - I don't know if the close-ups on Noémie Merlant are really Noémie's hands or if they choose a painter like in "La Belle Noiseuse" by JJ Rivette (these are not Michel Piccoli's hands). Even all these scene with Emmanuelle Béart and all these close-up on the book were we see the nervous hands trying some sketches are not Piccoli's hands. The editing is well done but somehow it annoyed me to know that.MichaelB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:02 amOne of the things that most impressed me about the film is the way that the paintings actually worked in context. I remember Michael Powell saying (and he was right) that he was never happy with the paintings in Age of Consent, which he envisaged as being far more luxuriantly sensual, but only realised that he’d hired the wrong guy when it was too late to do anything about it.Rupert Pupkin wrote:by the way, the painting for the Criterion-cover is certainly done by Hélène Delmaire and was probably one of the unused suggested portrait for the movie - but I could be wrong.
This is not the same story; but just on the perspective of a movie about painting (and Portrait like La Belle Noiseuse are both far more than just that) to me "Le Portrait de la jeune fille en feh" shows much more the painting process : watching the model
SpoilerShow
(there's the first part and the second part of the movie when Adèle Haenel's character is "aware" and consent to be painted)
SpoilerShow
(especially with the plot that Noémie is supposed to "catch" Adèle Haenel's face and portrait in secret)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
For those who understand French, the French Blu-ray has a commentary with the director, cinematographer, and two stars
- swo17
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
I was interested to notice the other day that this has made it to the IMDb Top 250
- DarkImbecile
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
My 6562 burner accounts are finally paying off
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Ooo I wasn’t ready for that 28 at the end. Bottom lip wobbled.
Sciamma surely belongs as one of the elite filmmakers in the world at this point. Can’t wait to see what see does next.
Sciamma surely belongs as one of the elite filmmakers in the world at this point. Can’t wait to see what see does next.
- senseabove
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
And for those who don't, reports from That Other Forum are that Artificial Eye licensed and subtitled this commentary on their UK release.domino harvey wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:18 pmFor those who understand French, the French Blu-ray has a commentary with the director, cinematographer, and two stars
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Think I'll rather go for the AEAudio Commentary with director Céline Sciamma, actors Adèle Haenel and Noémie Merlant, and cinematographer Claire Mathon
"Paintings by Hélène Delmaire" documentary (55:07)
Interview from 2019 with artist Hélène Delmaire on creating the paintings for the film (11:51)
Trailer (1:58)
- MichaelB
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Yes, Artificial Eye looks like a clear winner here in terms of quality over quantity. And I assume the main feature source is the same digital master that Criterion used - for such a recent film, why would there be more than one?
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Since there’s only one overlapping extra, super-fans could pick up both with few concerns if they wanted the whole kit’s worth
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Re: 1034 Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Hi all, cane here to try and find some information out, don’t know why I didn’t join sooner.
Anyone know if AE are region free? I want to support criterion, but I’m ALLLL about commentary tracks!