Non-Marvel and DC Comic Books on Film

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
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Werewolf by Night

Re: Comic Books on Film

#301 Post by Werewolf by Night » Fri May 01, 2015 9:38 pm

I thought that statement was pretty rich considering his father's work and considering that indie films were about the only work he could get for several years during his struggles with substance abuse.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#302 Post by hearthesilence » Fri May 01, 2015 10:56 pm

I was just talking about A Scanner Darkly recently - that's probably my favorite performance of his post-prison. But given his comments, I'm not sure that's the type of "indie" film he's talking about.

flyonthewall2983
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#303 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri May 01, 2015 11:03 pm

Plus, indie films don't exist now the way they did when he did them in the 90's. The "indie" divisions of major studios are just places for them to stockpile awards bait.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#304 Post by hearthesilence » Fri May 01, 2015 11:19 pm

Exactly. In his partial defense, there's probably countless dubious indie productions that more or less match his critical description of them. (The business of indie films is like the wild wild west, it's open to a lot of people who probably shouldn't be making films for many, many reasons.) But I doubt those are the kind of films the interviewer had in mind, more likely something like Birdman or The Imitation Game - multimillion productions that get picked up by the likes of Fox Searchlight or The Weinstein Company after a screening at someplace like Cannes or Venice, not Sundance.

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ordinaryperson
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#305 Post by ordinaryperson » Tue May 05, 2015 9:27 pm


flyonthewall2983
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#306 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:08 pm

Ben Affleck to direct standalone Batman film. Given his track record I am a little more interested in where this franchise is going now. On the other hand it could wind up feeling like a big ego trip on his part, too.

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Professor Wagstaff
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:27 pm

Re: Comic Books on Film

#307 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:36 pm

Maybe he just needs money for the inevitable massive divorce settlement.

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dx23
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#308 Post by dx23 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:44 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Ben Affleck to direct standalone Batman film. Given his track record I am a little more interested in where this franchise is going now. On the other hand it could wind up feeling like a big ego trip on his part, too.
I like Affleck a lot, but I don't trust on anything WB/DC is doing with their comic book properties. Too many failures (Superman Returns, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Man of Steel, Watchmen) compared to the success Marvel has had. Suicide Squad and Batman vs Superman seems to be overloaded with characters that will certainly not have time to be developed on film. I think Affleck is a wonderful director and a competent actor, but he is playing for a team that don't want to spend time developing a long term story, just catch up to what Marvel has built in the past 9 years.

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domino harvey
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#309 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:11 pm

The statute of limitations is surely up on barring city-destroying imagery

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#310 Post by knives » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:20 pm

Air Force was made in 1943 so precedent says yes.

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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#311 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:21 pm

The comics, even when intended for the very young, have used real world serious scenarios for generations. Superman and Wonder Woman fighting Nazis is a prime example.

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Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#312 Post by Luke M » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:41 pm

I'm not usually a fan of Vox, but this article better articulates my thoughts on the post-9/11 superhero imagery.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#313 Post by knives » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:00 pm

But how is that article discussing 9/11 imagery as a negative thing? It simply posits those images as a way to deal with a pain that nearly 14 years out has become a part of the cinematic visual shorthand. There's nothing offensive mentioned that isn't true of Pearl Harbor imagery during the '40s or the Viet Cong man getting shot from the '60s and '70s. The Statute of limitations on this imagery being taboo has certainly passed by now.

wattsup32
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#314 Post by wattsup32 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:54 pm

Luke M wrote:I found the 9/11 imagery, the buildings falling, people running away from dust cloud, offensive because its used as the backdrop of a silly superhero movie.
For you, what kinds of movies would it be OK to show buildings falling and people running away from the dust cloud?

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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#315 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:02 pm

I'd much rather see it done in a comic book movie disguised as a separate fictional event, then seeing a shot from the ground looking up as Tom Hanks falls from the WTC.

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domino harvey
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#316 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:05 pm

I still can't believe Larry Crowne ended like that

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dx23
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#317 Post by dx23 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:10 pm

SpiderBaby wrote:
captveg wrote:The Metropolis battle at the end of Man of Steel occurred practically in real time, so it went on for what, half an hour? What is Wayne supposed to do exactly (looks like we'll see what he tried to do)? What if Wonder Woman was in another part of the world?
I think he meant when Zod threaten to destroy the world through electronic communication a day or so before, why would Bruce Wayne be casually going on about his day? Shouldn't the 'World's Greatest Detective' be on a hunt to find this alien Zod wants back to save the world? He and Wonder Woman knew the world was threaten before the disaster happened. Yet Bruce is shown casual while the world is about to be destroyed. Some superhero.
That's exactly what I meant. Zoe took over all communications to deliver his threat, so a veteran Bruce Wayne/Batman will certainly be a little be more proactive about being ready in case everything goes to shit instead of following the business as usual like it's shown in the trailer.

My main point is that Man of Steel is not a very good movie, mostly because it tries to deliver the message of Superman as a Jesus Christ savior while he destroy Metropolis and more in a reckless battle with Zod and friends. In addition, the script is all over the place since Snyder usually places more importance to the look than to the substance. Like I've said before, I believe Cavill is a very good Superman, but the story didn't help him at all and it's hard to trust Snyder when he hasn't made a good film since 300. He's become a Michael Bay one trick pony director/film-maker.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#318 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:25 pm

Well, you won't get me agreeing with most of that, since I love Man of Steel and think the criticisms toward it border on the ridiculous.

I'm tired of reading that Superman destroyed Metropolis. It's a blatantly false statement. Zod and the World Engine destroyed Metropolis and put 7 billion lives at risk of extermination. Superman stopped the World Engine thereby saving those lives. Then Zod refuses to yield and intends to cause the most destruction and death possible, with a first-day-on-the-job-with-no-experience-in-a-battle-this-large Superman doing his best to stop him. It's an extreme circumstance that Superman is gonna learn from. I find it funny that people criticize him for not being the perfect, big picture realizing battle vet when in the context of the film that would be rather absurd.

It's not just the destruction that Batman will be upset with, but rather the cultural dynamics of extreme worshipers, extreme protesters, and very likely Luthor manipulation of both. I imagine this will be mediated by Wonder Woman, Alfred, and actually talking things out with Supes. But in the meantime, some comic throwdowns are to be had.

This isn't to say Superman can't learn to be a better and wiser hero going forward. And I imagine the time between the films and in this film itself will show that.

Also, Watchmen is a very good film, IMO. Both it and Man of Steel are much better than 300, IMO.

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dx23
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#319 Post by dx23 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:52 pm

I remember seeing Superman fighting the 2 other Kryptonians in the middle of the small town and not having any concerns of blowing up gas stations and Sears to crap instead of just simply taking the fight to the middle of a desert or an iceberg, where no one is around. Again, it was done this way by Snyder because it's cooler for him to see buildings fall and Denny's destroyed than having these same people fight in around in boring setbacks.

Superman is supposed to be the contrasting light to Batman's darkness. He's supposed to show the people that he isn't a menace like Luthor and other humans paint him to be. In the comic books and other media properties, they've shown that Kal-El is smart enough to not put himself in situations where other people can get harmed. Yes, Metropolis has been destroyed and rebuilt countless of times, but you see an effort in the writers to put Superman as being concern that things are falling down around him. In Man of Steel, they don't show the slightest concern in painting him in this manner. Instead, he doesn't mind using his surroundings to take advantage in the fight, even if that cause buildings to fall over innocent people. It's like Snyder saw The Avengers and said to himself that he could do this destruction 10 times bigger and with more explosions. Even in The Avengers, you see the concern with the team and the cops of evacuating the city and seeing that everyone is safe.

I'm not that much of a fan of Grant Morrison, but I'll give him his due: He wrote Superman at his best in All-Star Superman. I believe Snyder went the complete opposite of Morrison and showed Superman at almost his worst: the reckless, all-powerful alien who is too insecure to understand his responsibilities as a superhero.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#320 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:13 pm

First. Day. On. The. Job.

Think rookie cop WITHOUT the academy training.

He was also outnumbered significantly by the Kryptonians (there were more than two). For example, in the Smallville battle when he takes a moment to save a couple soldiers one of the Kryptonians uses that time to kill a jet pilot. It's hardly a perfect scenario for him to perfectly handle everything.

Yes, we see the Avengers trying to keep the populace safe. But they are also more experienced at it, and multiple in number. And yet people still died, because there's no way they didn't. But, hey, one-liners. Funsies!

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carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#321 Post by carmilla mircalla » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:59 am

dx23 wrote:I remember seeing Superman fighting the 2 other Kryptonians in the middle of the small town and not having any concerns of blowing up gas stations and Sears to crap instead of just simply taking the fight to the middle of a desert or an iceberg, where no one is around. Again, it was done this way by Snyder because it's cooler for him to see buildings fall and Denny's destroyed than having these same people fight in around in boring setbacks.

Superman is supposed to be the contrasting light to Batman's darkness. He's supposed to show the people that he isn't a menace like Luthor and other humans paint him to be. In the comic books and other media properties, they've shown that Kal-El is smart enough to not put himself in situations where other people can get harmed. Yes, Metropolis has been destroyed and rebuilt countless of times, but you see an effort in the writers to put Superman as being concern that things are falling down around him. In Man of Steel, they don't show the slightest concern in painting him in this manner. Instead, he doesn't mind using his surroundings to take advantage in the fight, even if that cause buildings to fall over innocent people. It's like Snyder saw The Avengers and said to himself that he could do this destruction 10 times bigger and with more explosions. Even in The Avengers, you see the concern with the team and the cops of evacuating the city and seeing that everyone is safe.

I'm not that much of a fan of Grant Morrison, but I'll give him his due: He wrote Superman at his best in All-Star Superman. I believe Snyder went the complete opposite of Morrison and showed Superman at almost his worst: the reckless, all-powerful alien who is too insecure to understand his responsibilities as a superhero.
You have got to be kidding me. You ever think about the fact that Zod and his henchmen didn't give him much of a choice BUT to fight in populated areas? Or the fact that a flight or fight response while quarreling with Zod or his crew was the reason why Superman couldn't personally break away and god bless every incidental death? If he had absolutely no concerns about people dying he would have let Zod fry that family into a Stouffer's dinner at the end. Those innocent lives? It's called collateral damage. It tends to happen in real life when wars break out. Superman never directly killed anyone that was human and what basis do you have that he had no concern?

To add To captveg's post, he was raised on earth with human morals and ethics. He was never nurtured in his own native environment so how could he possibly know what to do when coincidentally his first real fight in his life is against lifeforms that are the same race he is who have a slightly bigger advantage than him by living their whole lives on Krypton and learning to live by a completely different set of standards?

You seem to be obsessed with the legacy and iconography that Superman has traditionally been portrayed in pop culture. You're basically asking why would anyone want to reinterpret those values to give more complexity to character dynamics and non physical conflict for a beloved property that s been around for decades.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#322 Post by captveg » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:40 am

At the core to me, I don't get why we can have a movie like Batman Begins (deservedly) praised for showing the evolution of Wayne's Batman persona and ethical standards in their primary stages, which then was followed up on in the subsequent films, but then when they try that with Superman there are complaints about him not being the fully formed, matured version of the character. Nolan's Batman "doesn't have to save you, either" moment with Ra's Al Ghul had a few detractors screaming "THE BATMAN DOESN'T KILL" but most of us shrugged it off because the context of the film was that it was a younger, inexperienced Batman still defining his role and boundaries. The next film explored what the character established in that regard in the offscreen year between films quite extensively. And then in the third film the character directly pays for that decision with Ra's (whether one likes the handling of that in TDKR or not)

Can we give Superman the same chance and not need him to be the 100% idealized version of the character in the very moment he emerges from the cocoon? We're gonna get at least five films with him in the DCCU as played by Cavill (Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Justice League Part 1, JL P2, and a Man of Steel sequel). That's plenty of time for him to evolve into the perfect ideal of the character, IMO.


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bdsweeney
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#324 Post by bdsweeney » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:20 am

Clark's apartment has really gone to shit.

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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#325 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:52 am

It's Wayne Manor, actually.

Really not buying Eisenberg as Luthor yet.

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