The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[Finch]

What the others said. Peaks never was a mini-series in the first place and as much as I love the Pilot, I wouldn't classify it as horror. I like Fire Walk With Me less than the Pilot and the first season, but it works well as a horror film so it ended up on my list. If you don't feel passionate enough about that, vote for a film that does.

[tarpilot]

So out goes "Toby Dammit", in goes "The Forms of Things Unknown". Anyone else voting for any TV episodes?

I'll be voting for the Oswald. I was also planning on voting for Jacques Tourneur's Twilight Zone outing (the excellent "Night Call") but space proved to be far too tight

[terabin]

The question is, though: is 'Inland Empire' noir or horror?

Both.

Actually, the correct answer to its genre? DRAMA.

[Lighthouse]

Things don't get to be called mini-series because they "feel like mini-series." They either are or they aren't. You are the first person in the history of the world to ever suggest that Twin Peaks is a mini-series, and you are only doing so because you want to be able to shoehorn it onto this list.

Actually in the moment my interest is less the list, but what TP actually is.

I don't know how's the definition what a series is, and what a mini-series is in the USA, maybe it is slightly different from what Europeans think, maybe not. Irrespective from what TP actually is, it has all the characteristics of a mini-series as it tells one story which builds from the first episode up to the end in the last shot. With every episode being a direct continuation of the previous. And it has an absolutely satisfying end, even if of course not ever question is answered, but most are. It only makes sense to watch it complete or to ignore it complete.
And there is no big difference to how Riget was made and told. Or Edgar Reitz' Heimat.

And for the list it would be at least a borderline case. One for which an exception would not question the rule itself.

Of course regarding the list we should have had this discussion some months ago. Cause you are right that it is now too late.

[Lighthouse]

What the others said. Peaks never was a mini-series in the first place and as much as I love the Pilot, I wouldn't classify it as horror. I like Fire Walk With Me less than the Pilot and the first season, but it works well as a horror film so it ended up on my list. If you don't feel passionate enough about that, vote for a film that does.

I disagree.

TP contains some of the most frightening scenes I have ever seen, and Bob is a real horror character, and all his scenes are 100 % horror. Of course there is a lot more going on in TP. And TP belongs to the few films which are able to create a genuine feel of creepiness.

Fire Walks with Me is less good for this, even if I like it meanwhile much more.

[Mr Sausage]

Alright, due to the ongoing controversy, I think we should resolve this debate once and for all by putting it to a vote:


A. Should the next person to bring this up be banned immediately for two weeks.

B. Should the next person to bring this up be banned immediately for four weeks.

Whaddaya think?

[Yojimbo]

Bottom Line, Dave, at the end of the day its your list, whether its part protest vote or not.
But I wouldn't expect to see it making the final, composite list

[domino harvey]

The question is, though: is 'Inland Empire' noir or horror?

Both.

Actually, the correct answer to its genre? DRAMA.

Also the genre of the last two pages of this thread

[colinr0380]

This reminded me of the debate I had with myself about Accion Mutante, mostly because of its bleakly satirical and nihilist tone, but then that film fits better into Verhoeven-esque fantastical worlds sci-fi and dark comedy. Plus even the most horrific section involving limbs being blown off and one of the conjoined twins being killed turns much more into slapstick comedy, with the surviving twin having to drag the slowly decaying (and eventually taxidermied) corpse around with him for the rest of the film!

The director's follow up, The Day of the Beast, is much more in the horror genre. Though comedic as well!

(And of course, I inevitably and sadly didn't have space for The Day of the Beast on my list anyway!)

[Lighthouse]

I spotted some comedy too and less drama ...

[domino harvey]

Okay, all submitted lists have been tallied, and it only took about five hours! PSHEW! FYI we already have over twice the number of participants from the previous list project. Please, if you are wavering on submitting a list and can count to fifty, just do it, you got til midnight to come up with something. Lots of Orphans this time, even with more people playing, so think idiosyncratic or be generous based on discussion from this thread-- gonna be some tears when this is all over

[domino harvey]

Ridic participation so far, keep it coming guys!

Fears that we may not have enough common titles to reach consensus were premature to put it mildly: with 25 lists so far (that's more participation than the last two genre lists combined), there are already just under 500 films submitted, 223 of which have two or more votes

[tarpilot]

Anyone else find themselves agonizing over a late deletion only to realize you accidentally put a film on your list twice? It's like an extra cheeseburger underneath the extra fries at the bottom of the bag. And I needed the space, as a last-minute round of viewings produced some gems.

Firstly, Bernard Rose's enchanting Paperhouse, which had me from the outset and never let go. I would highly recommend any fans/interested parties to look into Gitta Sereny's Mary Bell tome, Cries Unheard: Why Children Kill, with which Rose's film shares a number of disturbing and fascinating parallels involving children and their insular fantasy worlds. In the very end, I just couldn't squeeze it in, but I heartily endorse the previous recommendations for it.

However, room was definitely made for L'annulaire, a fetching domino spotlight which answers a number of questions I never knew I asked. Namely, what would a Claire Denis adaptation of Richard Brautigan's The Abortion look like? RE: "horror" eligibility, when a film this good and overlooked is guaranteed another high-placing vote (or two), why are you to refuse her? Huh?

[Mr Sausage]

Paperhouse didn't enchant me the way it did for both you and Domino, tarpilot. I was fully expecting it to because it seems on the surface like my exact kind of film. I think part of the problem was that it was pitched just slightly too high and ended up slipping a little too close to the sentimental for my taste (the score didn't help). So I was always hovering just outside of it, unable to sink totally in the way I did with L'annulaire and City of Pirates, those other two dark and inexplicable fantasies I fell in love with during this project. There's much to like in Paperhouse, but part of me feels that, despite all the harrowing moments and images, there was something comfortable and safe about it. I think I wanted it to have a bit more of an edge. Hence it didn't make my list, although I would happily watch it again.

[tarpilot]

It sounds like Philip Ridley's The Reflecting Skin would be much more up your alley, though I hasten to add I haven't seen it myself!

[Yojimbo]

It pained me to exclude Bava's 'Blood and Black Lace', but I have to be strict with my criteria, and I consider this more of a crime thriller with horror elements.
Anyway, Bava will be more than adequately represented in the 50, and not only in glorious living colour.

A lot of tough decisions to be made:I've had to omit quite a few favourite Hammers but the biggest problem wasn't finding 50 great Horror films that I luhve, but which films I luhve that I have to drop.
I'm quite happy with how the final list is shaping up, though

[domino harvey]

Let's not dance too close to the deadline there, folks! Still missing lists from some prominent posters in this thread, hope they materialize within the next hour and a half

And, just as a teaser while we all wait, in a stunning twist befitting the genre, an episode of TV managed to make it to the Also Rans list via the Anthology Backdoor

[Yojimbo]

My 50 should be winging its way to you in another 10 minutes or so, Dom
I've got a ranked 50 which I think will be the final rankings, but I'm just doing the final 'humming and hawing' :-k

[Mr Sausage]

It pained me to exclude Bava's 'Blood and Black Lace', but I have to be strict with my criteria, and I consider this more of a crime thriller with horror elements.

Really? 'Cause if that's not a horror than neither is every other giallo ever made. That choice is pretty much shuffling the whole sub-genre out of horror entirely.

I had to exclude Blood and Black Lace as well, but only because Bava was already well represented with Lisa and the Devil and Kill, Baby...Kill! and I wanted to leave room for some other favourites.

[Yojimbo]

It pained me to exclude Bava's 'Blood and Black Lace', but I have to be strict with my criteria, and I consider this more of a crime thriller with horror elements.

Really? 'Cause if that's not a horror than neither is every other giallo ever made.

Exactly
Giallos are more about crime movies/policiers than horror, in my book, and when there are too many great films which have more of a 'Horror' element, I had to wield the axe to many wonderful films, some of whom are better films than some on my list

I excluded 'Deep Red', - probably my second favourite 'giallo', - for the same reason, but Argento is more than compensated by the high ranking of 'Suspiria'

[tarpilot]

Yeah, but the majority of giallos, even the best ones, are pretty worthless as mysteries

[Yojimbo]

Yeah, but the majority of giallos, even the best ones, are pretty worthless as mysteries

Agreed, and in that regard they could be said to resemble the best noirs
Some of my very favourite noirs are more about the light and shade, and the character actors, than the technical quality of the films, or their scripts.

[Mr Sausage]

Exactly
Giallos are more about crime movies/policiers than horror, in my book, and when there are too many great films which have more of a 'Horror' element, I had to wield the axe to many wonderful films, some of whom are better films than some on my list

That's eccentric to be sure. Especially since the defining characteristic of the genre was combining the detective story with the horror/suspense movie. I mean, if movies whose defining motif is masked killers chasing people through the dark for extended periods before killing them aren't horror, then the horror genre is beyond me. This is a bit like declaring the slasher movie isn't horror. You'd be the only person ever to do so.

[knives]

It sounds like Philip Ridley's The Reflecting Skin would be much more up your alley, though I hasten to add I haven't seen it myself!

Yes, Ridley is modern horror's under appreciated melodramatist. His recent film Heartless is also great though I didn't have the heart to put it on my own list.

[Yojimbo]

I mean, if movies whose defining motif is masked killers chasing people through the dark for extended periods before killing them aren't horror, then the horror genre is beyond me. This is a bit like declaring the slasher movie isn't horror. You'd be the only person ever to do so.

The only person? :-s

Facing somebody who's about to gun you down in cold blood could be said to be 'Horror' by that definition.
Should we be including 'Scarface'?
I'm sure many people would describe 'At Long Last Love' as a 'Horror' movie, also