1920s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists project Vol. 3)

[knives]

Is the big list forming into anything with rhyme and reason Lubitsch? I'm curious what the handful of non-cannon choices pop up as regulars.

[YnEoS]

Our lists aren't due til the 16th, no?

By the way, could we possibly get the exact time our lists our due? I'm not sure I'm gonna get all the way through my to watch list so I plan on marathon movie watching up til the last minute. Not really expecting anything to make any noticeable dent into my top 50 so it shouldn't be a big deal though.

[Gregory]

Everyone please set aside six minutes to watch Ko-Ko's Earth Control.

As it turns out, I won't be submitting my list this time, but I watched quite a few '20s films for the first time during the past six months, and I think this was one of my three favorites among those. I've seen some other Fleischer stuff from this era and while I liked it, none of it quite reached the same level of manic strangeness. If there are other outstanding Fleischer shorts that I may not have seen, I'd love to hear about them. For the 1930s list, I'm very likely going to vote for "Bimbo's Initiation" (which I still have on a Betty Boop VHS). I wish more of this stuff could get released.

[lubitsch]

The official list date is midnight (Central European time) on the night from Sunday to Monday, but I need time to tabulate the results, ask back the usual questions and some people will forget about the list, so if it arrives early on monday, it's ok, but then I start to inquire and will threaten to close the list, so please don't keep me waiting too long. Only three lists have arrived by now and one needs reworking, but that was no different the last time around. I also noticed that Oblomok imperii has wandered a year ahead to 1930 but it remains in the 20s list like Queen Kelly.

I have 6 films to go, I finished off a bit of Hollywood though I really can't muster much enthusiasm for most of the commercial product of its time like in the Warner Archives. Two Arabian Knights is a nice buddy movie, The Last Warning is a carbon copy of The Cat and the Canary, while The Pagan is the weakest link in Van Dyke's trilogy encomapssing White Shadows in the South Seas and Eskimo, Novarro's character is just too dumb for us to sympathize with him. The Sea Hawk was arguably the most enjoyable of these films, nice to see all the effort that has gone into this production.
I also bit the bullet for Brudeferden i Hardanger though I should have known that no film Tommaso likes can be really any good . It's a curiously uninvolving affair with the actors being very uncharismatic and especially the moon-faced leading lady being not especially nice which admittedly gives the second half some dramatic credibility and the film has a very fine, moving end. It's picturesque, but lacks the necessary force.
Buying the fine Grapevine edition of Hintertreppe (kudos to the DVD producer) meant that I could check Sappho though the title is misleading to say the least. Fine presentation, very good score which gave the film more power than it really had. More rewarding was the early version of Die Geierwally an early examle of the German heimatfilm which however has unusually heavy conflicts drawn out. The characters stand around and are shaking with hate or desire until they explode in fast movements, fine location shooting. The Steinhoff version of 1940 is nevertheless better and Henny Porten is ... ahem a very interesting choice for the role (imagine Hugh Grant as Jason Bourne). The cream of the cake is however Lamprechts Die Verrufenen which shows a prisoner being released and sinking rapidly to the flophouse and working grimly determined his way back into society helped by a prostitute. Ok this may sound like pretty ordinary stuff, maybe it is to a certain degree and the main character is maybe to stoic and courageous, but this is 1925 and it's quite impressive how this follows uncompromisingly the descent of the main character without any cheap melodramatic embellishment.

[myrnaloyisdope]

In putting together my top 50 just now, I'm realizing how many really great films there are from this decade that I have to either leave off or barely squeak in, as there are so many films entrenched amongst my personal favorites that I can't really remove. I expect most of y'all are facing similar crises, but it's one heck of a decade.

Interestingly (at least to me), I've found myself falling in love with far fewer new films than I did for the pre-1920's list. Maybe it's because I have seen a lot of the established canon that I feel that way, or perhaps it's that I've been a bit burned out on silent films the last little while. I also have geared my viewing efforts towards watching some films I've had lying around for a while, but that aren't exactly classics...Riley The Cop anyone?

[Tommaso]

In putting together my top 50 just now, I'm realizing how many really great films there are from this decade that I have to either leave off or barely squeak in, as there are so many films entrenched amongst my personal favorites that I can't really remove. I expect most of y'all are facing similar crises, but it's one heck of a decade.

Exactly, I feel like starting a Sad Panda thread already, not for the films that won't make it from my list to the final one, but for all those that I couldn't even squeeze onto my own list. And I fear very much this won't get better with the 30s list...

[lubitsch]

What I find insanely difficult is the top 20 where I have films which I think are more or less perfect, so how to rate them? I wouldn't know how to improve Cottage on Dartmoor, Die wunderbare Lüge der Nina Petrowna, Invitation au Voyage or The Docks of New York, they are visually dazzling, sensibly acted, told with an eye for intimate details as well as maintaining a strong narrative focus, so how to rank perfection? With Isn't Life wonderful I can say that it's a bit drably directed here and there and the end is weak and Street Angel isn't quite cohesive visually, but the top 15 are really difficult to sort.
My second problem are the shorts, how do you rate Tusalava, H2O and The Skeleton Dance? They are great for what they are but how exactly does one compare them to the other films, it's already not so easy with an essentially perfect short like Big Business, but these abstract films really throw me.

[Tommaso]

If you find some films equally perfect, I suppose there's no other way than to simply follow your gut feeling and order them according to how much you love them, which might come down to questions of genre or even actors/actresses involved. That's what I did with the last 15 on my list (the top 15 were comparatively easy for me), all of which could be easily replaced by thirty or forty other films that are finally not on my list, although they would have all the right to be there.

[the preacher]

Done! Unfortunately, due to family problems, I could not see in time a few well-referenced movies, titles as Die wunderbare Lüge der Nina Petrowna...

For me, the biggest surprise was the high percentage of American films (30/50), certainly higher than in any other decade. It is also true that some of these films are directed by European filmmakers.

Finally, to make the exercise easier, I've limited the number of films per director to 2, and I have included only one talkie, one documentary, and one short at the bottom of the list. It would have been impossible otherwise.

I look forward to the results and the next poll!

[myrnaloyisdope]

Urg, just realized I forgot to put Miss Lulu Bett on my list!

[Tommaso]

The forum has been down all day, and now it's probably too late to post this, but anyway...

I also bit the bullet for Brudeferden i Hardanger though I should have known that no film Tommaso likes can be really any good . It's a curiously uninvolving affair with the actors being very uncharismatic and especially the moon-faced leading lady being not especially nice which admittedly gives the second half some dramatic credibility and the film has a very fine, moving end. It's picturesque, but lacks the necessary force.

His Highness, the Count of Galitzien, has just in time come to the rescue of the film: "It's a wonderful silent film that must be discovered and enjoyed by any silent film fan around the world." And no arguing with our teutonic aristocrats, I'd say.

And finally, two more recommendations: Land in Captivity (Fjodor Otsep, 1928). This is a beautiful film by a director which should be much better known. Otsep is a little bit at odds with the Russian/Soviet filmmaking of the time, because this and the slightly better known "The living corpse" (1929), while of course retaining a stance of social criticism, is far more lyrical than most other Soviet films I know from this time. The story may look like your usual melodrama: poor girl has to go to the city to earn money for her family, is tricked and almost raped by her employer, and further ill-fortune makes her a prostitute. Nevertheless there is a happy end of sorts. However, Otsep manages to make all this entirely believable and crafts a very impressive and touching film. We get fantastic landscape photography in the rural scenes, and Anna Sten is a lovely, fragile and convincing heroine on which Otsep's camera has all reason to dwell. A very touching film, even though I don't know whether I find it better than "The living corpse". But one Otsep should be on the list, so I'll make it this one. Too bad that Gerlach's great "Vanina" had to go for this… It's a shame.

Secondly, I share the praise for Shimizu's Undying Pearl (or whatever it's called). Indeed a very modern, or better, western-looking film; very differentiated characterizations, rather independent female characters, great direction et al. The beautiful tintings on the print floating around make it even more worthwhile. While this sadly won't make my list, I nevertheless recommend it to anyone, and I really wish that Criterion had included it in their Shimizu set. Well, I must try to unearth more Shimizu for the 30s list.

[myrnaloyisdope]

I'll see if I can sneak in a viewing of Undying Pearl tonight, so I can claim to have seen more than one Japanese film from the decade.

[lubitsch]

While I wait for the lists to come in now (next morning in 10-12 hours is also ok, but then the gates begin to close), a few films more.
Moulin Rouge was nice as far as melodrama go though the young woman isn't particularily endearing to the viewer, the young man quite a sap and Tschechowa not quite the glamour girl to attract all men. The slightly ludicrous car chase (now here's a silent action scene!) and the ending weren't that convinsing either. On to Japan where Days of Youth proved to be the most terribly boring film Ozu ever made. It's not funny, the characters aren't interesting and nothing is happening. And when I want to see ski scenes I watch Arnold Fanck. Undying Pearl was better but again the very least Shimizu I have seen yet. The younger sister came across as jerk, the older as uninvolving suffering maiden while the man of the triangle was quite colorless. The ending also didn't resolve anything plus the whole story seemed to enforce a superficial Western lifestyle (bad) vs. Japanese devotedness (good) dichotomy. Both directors went on to far greater things and these are no more than exercises.
Finally I delved into the Czech cinematography and for Varhanik u sv. Vita I could cut together a trailer that would the film let look like an eternal masterpiece. There are a´some beautiful shots and a few semi.-abstract compoistions, but it has a story that is strangely all over the place. It introduces itself as a murder story including blackmail changes into a Mästerman like story where a young girl brightens the life of a bitter old man and changes back including a rather surprising transformation of one's characters attitudes. There's a good movie hidden there, but it's not as good as it should be. Batalion is another renowned classic and quite similar to Die Verrufenen focusing on the descent of a bourgeois into the lower strata of society and the main story is again surrounded by all kind of genre sketches here with a similarily cynical humour. The film could have done without some characters however and the whole plot with the court president's daughter is pointlessly melodramatic, die Verrufenen despite its superficially looking happier ending was more convincingly plotted than Batalion which however is another good example for all the fine Czech film which paved the way for Erotikon the first masterpiece from this country.

[swo17]

Just for fun, I thought I would share my top 50 list in picture form this time. Good luck deciphering this, lubitsch. (jk, ygpm)

[lubitsch]

It seems that all lists are submitted now however I asked Scharphedin if he wanted to chime in with a list despite having deserted the forum a bit and he was surprised about my message but very eager to do so, so I gave him until Tuesday morning to compile his list, I think we all agree that we want him aboard. Others like Schreck declined or had already declared their absence like Gregory, so we'll have 18 lists, four more than last time.
Since I have a very urgent thing to do today anyway, you'll have to wait a bit, I may ask today or at latest tomorrow the usual questions via PM though the films are rather easy to identify today. If anyone has today a silent viewing experience of earth shattering qualities, you may slip in the film in your list via PM.
The 30s thread will be opened this week.

[lubitsch]

Sorry for the delay but I ran into other important commitments. I've charted all 18 lists, had however finally to decline Scharphedin's entry because he limited himself for the freshly seen timespan 1920-1926 and he apparently hadn't the time to expand his list for the rest from memory upon my request. I will write you the usual PMs but here's first a list of the orphans in the truest sense of the word, films which received not a single vote from nobody but are available on DVD (with English subs/intertitles where necessary) and have a certain reputation, not counting stuff like The Sheik or The Ten Commandments which are somewhat famous but where no one ever thought them any good. So here are the films which have completely fallen out of grace

Von Morgens bis Mitternacht
Orphans of the Storm as well as the rest of Griffith's 20s DVDs
The Three Musketeers and The Gaucho
almost all Pickford films including Sparrows
La Terre
Salome
Merry Go Round
The Pilgrim
The Eagle
Go West and College
The Lost World
Geheimnisse einer Seele and Die Liebe der Jeanne Ney
Harry Langdon's entire output
The Jazz Singer
King of Kings
Four Sons
Speedy as well as most early Lloyd features like Grandma's Boy
Sadie Thompson
The Cocoanuts
Hallelujah
New Babylon

[Gregory]

Disappointing that New Babylon didn't rate on anyone's list. I thought it was both exciting and moving--one of the best historical films of the decade.
I hope no one was deterred from seeing it for the list by the list on page 1 stating that the DVD doesn't have English subtitles (it does). I tried to have this corrected months ago but no luck.

That's pretty surprising about The Love of Jeanne Ney and a couple of the others, as well.

[Tommaso]

I am truly sad, too, that these films didn't make it on anyone's list, but then, they didn't make it on mine either. Which has nothing to do with the films, but simply with the fact that 50 slots are not enough to do any kind of justice to this incredible period of filmmaking, in my view the richest of them all. For the record: "Jeanne Ney", "Geheimnisse einer Seele" and "New Babylon" were seriously considered by me, but finally I had to drop them for two other Pabsts and two other Kozintsevs. And for sure I also like "Von morgens bis mitternachts" and "Merry go Round". But not even "Greed" made it onto my list....

[swo17]

Yeah, I seriously considered Jeanne Ney and New Babylon as well (even watched them both twice during the project), but there's only so much room at the top I suppose.

[the preacher]

Oh well, that means I saved (Cecil) DeMille's honor with a couple of his films, ha ha. I hope William has better luck.

[Michael Kerpan]

I would have listed New Babylon -- had I not (possibly permanently) sworn off list-making (especially for lists requiring 50 _ranked_ choices). ;~}

[lubitsch]

Disappointing that New Babylon didn't rate on anyone's list. I thought it was both exciting and moving--one of the best historical films of the decade.
I hope no one was deterred from seeing it for the list by the list on page 1 stating that the DVD doesn't have English subtitles (it does). I tried to have this corrected months ago but no luck.

Sorry, done now, bit late though .

I can understand most of these omissions to a certain point, it's often a question of the director/star having a few more, better films in the game. What really surprises me is that despite having now the complete surviving Langdon on DVD, nobody did care a bit. Also I'd have thought Von morgens bis mitternacht and Lost World would get votes for their bizarre visual style/the special effects.

It's also notable that many shorts didn't do really well though most of the famous ones got a vote here or there, but there's really no love for Steamboat Willie? Impatience by Dekeukeleire probably lacked exposure as few dug into the Belgian DVD, but I can imagine it would have got some votes were it better known.

Tomorrow I'll post the real darlings with only one vote (I know how to create suspense, don't I?) and gentlemen prepare for some true shockers including a dear film of mine where I really can't believe no one else voted for.

[Tommaso]

Tomorrow I'll post the real darlings with only one vote (I know how to create suspense, don't I?) and gentlemen prepare for some true shockers including a dear film of mine where I really can't believe no one else voted for.

Phew, as I'm certain you voted for "Nina Petrowna", too, I'm still hoping it gets the rank on the list it deserves...

[knives]

there's really no love for Steamboat Willie?

I was really tempted to put Plane Crazy on(never saw the attraction for Steamboat Willie), but the decade really does have too many great things going for it for me to only put on films that I love, but don't find particularly great. The same situation befell Hallelujah and The Lost World(among many others). Though I did manage to sneak in The Skeleton Dance which has always been my favorite Disney short.

[Gropius]

Salome

I didn't submit a list - still too many gaps in my 20s viewing - but if I had, Salome would have been on it. As would Alexandre Volkoff's Geheimnisse des Orients.