403 Crí­a cuervos

[arsonfilms]

I think it cheapens Saura's achievement to see the film as political allegory, as some have done.

Why? How many times is the personal and political fused this well? It should be lauded as a political allegory.

As with Spirit of the Beehive, I felt as though the (necessary) masking of the political motives behind the film allowed for dual appreciations. I'm fascinated as I watch both films as political allegories, but at the same time (or perhaps during different viewings) I fall in love with each film as an intensely beautiful work of art. You can strip away (or even play dumb to) the politics and still have incredibly powerful films, but the fact that the politics are there - and only just beneath the surface - makes both works even greater. To reduce Cria Cuervos to simply a political allegory would certainly cheapen it, but to ignore that aspect entirely doesn't do the film justice.

[Michael]

Saura's very nice flamenco trilogy (Eclipse set) could not even prepare me for the glitteringly beautiful and devastating Cria cuervos. The real world, fantasy and memory filter through each other so seamlessly. I love its ghostly mood with women suspended in it. Ana so amazing and Geraldine so delicate and heartbreaking.

Even with the war/fascist shit going on and the adults fucking up, Cria cuervos makes quite a cozy film to watch on a wintry night.

[Arn777]

I'm also late on praising this absolute gem of a film, I was probably put off by the ugly cover. Definitely one of the best films I have seen recently. I am surprised it didn't end up in the top Criterion discs of the year, hopefully more people will see it.

[Michael]

I'm also late on praising this absolute gem of a film, I was probably put off by the ugly cover. Definitely one of the best films I have seen recently. I am surprised it didn't end up in the top Criterion discs of the year, hopefully more people will see it.

100% agreed. I've been watching the film once every day since I received the DVD. And I can't wait to watch it again. I remain utterly floored.

The kind of film that just plops right in my top ten all-times without requiring any consideration. It's really that great.

Odd but after watching Saura's film I couldn't help revaluating Almodovar's women. Despite Almodovar being famous as a director of women, he never reached the depth of women (rich humanity / complexity) as much/baroque/resonant as Saura did in Cria cuervos. Almodovar's women are cartoons if being compared to Saura's.

[jesus the mexican boi]

I finally got around to seeing this -- thanks, local library! and I was really impressed. Bunuelophile that I am, Saura's earlier films have long been on my radar, but I think this may be the first I've actually seen. I kept thinking of Almodovar, too, as Michael did, particularly in the character of Rosa, the housekeeper. I can't help but think little Pedrito watched this as a young hooligan and took its nuances to heart. And the Jeanette song -- priceless. Smart, assured turns by each extremely talented actress, to say nothing of the children. Torrent is amazing. I can't wait to discover more Saura from this era.

[domino harvey]

This film was marvelous. Geraldine Chaplin, who usually gets on my nerves even in films I like, was actually the best thing about it! I loved how the film misled the viewer for a good hour as to what the film was about before thankfully revealing the true contents of the metal tin. I'm not particularly interested in a sensational film about a child murderer, but a realistic portrayal about a young person responding to death by treating it flippantly is perfectly captured by Saura. This film gets so many things right about childhood that it puts a great deal of more popular "coming of age" films to shame.

[HerrSchreck]

Intriguing, since you so disliked Spirit of the Beehive, which this film owes quite a debt to (& kinship with).

Althoug Cuervos was a magnificent surprise, the best kinda blind buy there is (the kind of blind buy that makes CC so fantastic), it sill falls far short of its predecessor.. at least for me.

But again, it really is a fabulous film. Whereas Espiritu is (for me) the most sublime meditation on the nostalgia of the mystery of childhood and it's (often painful) lost innocence in the whole of the cinema, Cria Cuervos IS childhood itself. Watching it I didn't feel the ache of lost years long gone by that remain only in dreams and sweetly sad memories-- I was a kid all over again. Despite me growing up a boy on the streets of the Bronx, light years from the kind of upbringing of the girls in the film.. the universality of the experience of childhood is so perfectly realized that it probably speaks that same truth to anyone who threads well enough into the films narrative to move with it and enjoy it as much as we did.

[cysiam]

The Austin Cinematheque will be showing a 35mm print of this tomorrow at 7:30.

[bottled spider]

Regarding Chaplin playing both Ana's mother and the future, adult Ana, Saura employed a similar device in Elisa Mia Vida, where Chaplin plays both the adult character Elisa, and Elisa's mother in a flashback to Elisa's childhood. And in an interesting parallel to Cria, the young Elisa is played by Ana Torrent.

The blurring of parent and offspring appears to be a motif for Saura. Father and daughter enjoy some kind of paranormal connection in Elisa Mia Vida, and a son torments his amnesiac father by reversing roles in The Garden of Delights.

[gcgiles1dollarbin]

I saw Ay, Carmela a couple years ago--*hated it*--and therefore was avoiding any other Saura films. Cria Cuervos is on instant view at Netflix, so with little to do this fine Friday evening, groggy from the workday, I said what the furk, and watched it. And now I can't believe the same person directed this. A lot can happen in fifteen years, but still: what an amazing film! Ay, Carmela is such a stinker by comparison; it's interesting, too--going back to previous suggestions that Cria Cuervos is a Franco allegory--that his 1990 film is set during the Civil War, but remains a transparent, spineless period piece. I wonder if anyone else was put off by a sub-par Saura film; it seems like a lot of people on this thread were either unaware of the man or unconvinced that he was worth the time.
Now I have seen the light, at least that which was shed by Cria Cuervos.
I hope I am not incensing fans of Ay, Carmela; my point is to underscore the excellence of Cria Cuervos.
Cheers...

[Mr Sausage]

DISCUSSION END MONDAY, NOVEMBER 25th AT 6:00 AM.

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[zedz]

Nothing much to say here except this is a very fine film; I have a bizarre curiosity in following Ana Torrent's career from Spirit of the Beehive through this, to Vacas and The Tulse Luper Suitcases (she's particularly remarkable in these two earliest films); and 'Porque te vas' is an insanely catchy song. It's the first thing I think of when I think of this film, and I can't get it out of my head for hours afterwards.

[domino harvey]

Nothing much to say here except this is a very fine film

I think this round might be the equivalent of dead air-- I PMed another poster with the same thought. There are great moments in this film that capture a universal feeling of childhood, but overall, I'm not sure I have much else to add. If this selection got someone to buy and see the film for the first time, that's something, I guess. I wonder sometimes if people are voting just for a film they like or have already seen rather than for a film that can generate discussion

[swo17]

I voted for it because I was interested in seeing it for the first time, which I will be doing as soon as my order of the BFI release arrives from Amazon UK (crossing fingers for tomorrow).

[zedz]

I wonder sometimes if people are voting just for a film they like or have already seen rather than for a film that can generate discussion

I suspect the same thing, but hope to be proven wrong in this case.

[Drucker]

I voted for it because I was interested in seeing it for the first time, which I will be doing as soon as my order of the BFI release arrives from Amazon UK (crossing fingers for tomorrow).

I am in the same boat. But just in case it doesn't arrive, I put it at the top of my newly reactivated Netflix queue (which I just re-started for the purposes of our film club), so by Thursday I'll definitely have something to say.

[Mr Sausage]

I voted for it for the same reason swo17 did, and I thought the movie was affecting and poignant, very well-observed. I appreciated how it didn't sentimentalize or romanticize childhood. The movie does capture a universal feeling of childhood, but it also grasps the way children can be strange and alienating. Ana's lack of affect, tho' it implies how deep the pain and unhappiness is being embedded, also makes her somewhat unreachable. You can see the disconnect, her mind not fully able to grasp the significance of things, tho' she frequently reuses snatches of speech she's heard during those moments. It's interesting to see the various ways she grapples with the concept of death.

I'll try to find more to say about it later, but in the mean time I wonder if someone else could answer a question of mine:

I've heard this is an allegory for Spain under Franco. I kind of saw where political elements could be explored, but I didn't actually see it form into an allegory. Could anyone explain how the movie functions as an allegory?

[knives]

Just a guess, but maybe Spain bore its death onto itself.

[Mr Sausage]

Could you explain that a bit more?

[knives]

Given the title and plot it's clear if there is to be a metaphorical point to the film than it is that the Spanish people have sown the evil that's now killing themselves. Beats me what Chaplin's point would be in that case, but I figure if the film is taken in any way that's not straightforward that's the simplest explanation.

[Mr Sausage]

Given the title and plot it's clear if there is to be a metaphorical point to the film than it is that the Spanish people have sown the evil that's now killing themselves. Beats me what Chaplin's point would be in that case, but I figure if the film is taken in any way that's not straightforward that's the simplest explanation.

This raises way more questions than it answers. Who's representing the spanish people in the film, and which one of them is sowing death?

[knives]

The step parents with the little girl as the fascists? Like I said this is just a spur of the moment thought on my part with the suggestion that the film might be a metaphor for the fascists in Spain.

[YnEoS]

Had no idea what to expect going into this, and this is the first Carlos Saura film I've seen. Really quite taken with it though, easily one of my best movie watching experiences in a while.

I feel like this film employed some really interesting narrative strategies to try and re-create the experience of being a kid, whereas many similar films just try to literally stick the viewer into the kids POV and end up achieving much less. The way the scenes didn't always have an immediately apparent narrative purpose, how Ana's imagination would sometimes arise in the middle of a perfectly normal scene or even shot, the shifting between "present", memories, and future Ana directly addressing us, plus casting Geraldine Chaplin as both Ana's mother and Ana when she'd grown up. All of these features constantly gave me the sensation of constantly trying to come to terms with exactly where and what was going on in each scene. I feel like the viewer doesn't simply observe Ana as she encounters things outside of her understanding, but rather the viewer is forced to come to terms with the narrative world they've been placed in at the same time.

Then other scenes were much more direct, informative and comforting, with characters clearly explaining what is going on, just telling stories, or returning us to familiar songs and scenarios, like the piano music, the pop song, or Ana's Mom playfully scolding her for being up late. When Ana is playing music for her grandmother and pointing at the various photographs and telling her things about them, it reminded me of (and acted as) some of the ways the film itself was engaging me.

I felt like by mediating between these narrative techniques the film really evoked certain emotions of being a child, at times being in safety and comfort, and at other times trying to situate oneself within new and strange experiences. I'm a little wary of reading storytelling techniques into the themes of the film, and I'm probably venturing a little too much into that territory than I'd like to. I don't think some close examination of the narrative strategies used will reveal any kind of insight into what the film is about, and probably its more fundamentally geared towards sustaining narrative interest, and creating the tone and mood of the world. But it did strike me as not being the most obvious approach to re-creating a child's emotional experiences, and personally I found it much more effective.

[Lemmy Caution]

So far I re-watched the first hour before I had to stop and head out for a few hours.
I think this is my third viewing so I was able to pay more attention to the construction of the film and the techniques used rather than the story itself. Here are some thoughts that might get things rolling:

The first 7 minutes of the film are without dialogue. We observe Anna observing. There's a good deal from Anna's PoV and we see Anna's eyes and her soulful stare. But we don't know how much Anna understands what she witnesses.

The first member of Anna's family we see is her dead father. The first one to speak in the film is her dead mother. The real presence of the dead father gives more power and immediacy to Anna's imaginings of her deceased mother. She probably already was seeing/interacting with her dead mother, but the father's corpse lends more reality to interacting with the dead, for little Anna. Later we get a scene in the park where there are two Anna's and she imagines herself plunging to her death -- to join her parents I'd assume. But the notion of living and dead, reality/imagination have blended together in her mind.

One strategy Saura uses is to have things hidden. The father dies behind a closed door. Anna hides behind her grandmother's wheelchair, and we get a view of her partially hidden by a wall. The park scene begins with a view of a busy street, then the camera goes behind the storefront signs partially blocking the view, until it moves fully away from the street and drifts into the park, where the family is playing. This seems to represent the way the adult world with its complications and implications are partially hidden from Anna's understanding.

Another technique is to use slow zooms and close-ups to capture the interior world of Anna and some others. This also portrays the small scale of a child's world where the outside world or even what isn't immediately present can be easily forgotten/ignored.

The aunt who comes to take care of the girls often seems kind of threatening and almost an Evil Stepmother type. But I think this is mainly from Anna's viewpoint -- and the adult Anna says explicitly that she grew up feeling a sense of fear and worry -- and really the Aunt is fairly reasonable and tries to be understanding, even if she doesn't seem terribly comfortable dealing with children. I think that has been my main take-away from this 3rd (partial) viewing -- the aunt is really a decent person, and the dual characterization of her is really well-modulated, allowing us to see how she appears to Anna and how she really is.

For example, at the father's funeral, Anna disobeys her aunt, and the aunt says something like 'We'll talk about this later young lady.' It seems like Anna is in for some punishment and she hides behind the grandmother for protection, but given how the aunt normally behaves I believe she will simply talk to Anna about the incident and let it pass.
I quite liked how on her own Anna is curious and touches her father's corpse, just taking it in as an experience. But when many eyes are on her and she is directed to kiss her father's body in public, she balks. Seemed like the way a child might deal with the same experience thrust into a different situational context.

The father is clearly identified with the fascists as we see him in military uniform, buried with a sword, while almost all his mourners seem to be military men. And in Anna's flashback, he's in uniform and leching on the maid. All we really learn of the father is that he's a horrid womanizer, and the opening death scene confirms this. So there is this element of the military preying on the weak -- mostly the women while keeping the children in fear. And I think that's the main allegory. That living under the fascist regime is a frightening experience, with a predatory military in charge, the people treated like children, with Spain isolated and cut off from the rest of the world.

Just checked and I'm at Chapter 14 , the 1'03" mark of the film. The one element I'm not fully comfortable with is the adult Anna talking to the camera. I'd be interested in hearing ideas as to why Saura chose this approach and how people reacted to it. It does seem to provide explication where the childhood scenes are left more ambiguous, and it seems to also drive some of the themes home.

[MichaelB]

I have a bizarre curiosity in following Ana Torrent's career from Spirit of the Beehive through this, to Vacas and The Tulse Luper Suitcases (she's particularly remarkable in these two earliest films).

When researching my booklet biography for the BFI BD, I watched as many of her films as I could get hold of. She developed into a perfectly decent adult actress (her Catherine of Aragon is the only reason to watch The Other Boleyn Girl, and she's very good indeed as the leads in Thesis and Luna's Game), but I don't think she's come close to matching her pre-1980 output - I don't think I've ever seen a child actress quite like her.

(Jaime de Armiñán's The Nest is the other early one worth looking out for - a quasi-Lolita story with the crucial difference that the Humbert Humbert figure couldn't be less of a predatory paedophile, and the fact that Torrent's character plays Lady Macbeth in a school play is in no way an accurate summation of her character. It was Oscar-nominated the same year as István Szabó's Confidence, and has been similarly invisible ever since.)