The Thing vs Alien

[Harvey Domino]

I almost find it more interesting when someone writes an insightful and unique analysis of an escapist film like Alien or The Thing over, say, a Bergman or a Bresson film because oftentimes the nuances of genre escapist fare is sometimes difficult to pick up on for me. Not to say that Alien is better than Au Hasard Balthazar, not even remotely, but when I sit down to watch the latter I will be more attentive to Bresson's aesthetic and thematic concerns than I will to them in Scott's Alien.

You bring up an interesting approach, and I agree with you... I'm wondering though, do you really consider genre films "escapist"? Granted, many (most) are, but haven't they often been used by smarter directors to sort of speak "in code" about issues or ideas not necessarily allowed to be spoken of otherwise, or in bigger budget more mainstream films?

I think that's one of the failings of Alien (and to a lesser extent, The Thing) -- they were made after genre film's heyday and now everyone knows that film noirs, sci-fi, westerns, etc. are real art (more or less) but, ironically, genre films of the last 35 years or so (post Star Wars?) seem to almost entirely lack their predecessors' layers of meaning and intentions.

[Polybius]

They're still there, it's just that SF (much like Horror) is a genre that's been pressed into service in the annual Summer Blockbuster Cash Grab Extravaganza, which is why potentially interesting projects wind up being turned into offal like Constantine.

[Roger_Thornhill]

You bring up an interesting approach, and I agree with you... I'm wondering though, do you really consider genre films "escapist"? Granted, many (most) are, but haven't they often been used by smarter directors to sort of speak "in code" about issues or ideas not necessarily allowed to be spoken of otherwise, or in bigger budget more mainstream films?

Yes I think overall I'd have to say I consider most of them escapist fare, even the ones that are more overt with their allegorical or thematic concerns such as Siegel's Invasion of the Body Snatchers or Wise's The Day the Earth Stood Still. Generally speaking, to me at least, the average moviegoer who sits down to watch The Day The Earth Stood Still, for instance, is really only interested in the story and characters and any thoughts to what the film is trying to "say" are probably not dwelled upon.

Recently I visited my family and we all went to see Children of Men, and after the show ended they all said they liked it because of the story. I tried starting a discussion about, what seemed overt to me, the film's politics and commentary on a variety of issues, yet none of them seemed interested in discussing that. I got the typical reply, "I liked the story" (Although none of them liked the ending because it was too ambiguous). Discussion over, unless of course the story itself is complex. It's not as if my family is ignorant of geo-politics, history, or what not, but when they go to see a movie they just want to sit back, turn off their mind, and enjoy themselves.

I think most people just go to genre films to have the Keanu Reeves Matrix reaction: "Whoa"...and leave it at that. These are just my own personal observations, however, and I wouldn't be surprised if others felt the opposite way.

I think that's one of the failings of Alien (and to a lesser extent, The Thing) -- they were made after genre film's heyday and now everyone knows that film noirs, sci-fi, westerns, etc. are real art (more or less) but, ironically, genre films of the last 35 years or so (post Star Wars?) seem to almost entirely lack their predecessors' layers of meaning and intentions.

I agree, which is why I like being surprised by reading an interesting analysis of a film like Alien, where at first glance there doesn't appear to be much under the surface, but occasionally there is. There's a danger of course in over-analyzing genre films as well, such as during Roger Ebert's discussion at his festival several years ago with Alex Proyas about Dark City. Ebert kept saying things like, "this shot recalls such and such, was that your intention or your meaning behind that?" About three quarters of the time Proyas would say, "Pure coincidence." Although one could argue that Proyas was subconsciously putting references and meaning behind certain scenes or shots, and therefore extend that to other genre filmmakers as well, yet you have to be careful not to go too far I think.

[Argonaut69]

Going off of memory I probably would have answered this differently but based on seeing both of them on the big screen again last year here in Seattle, I would have to give the edge to The Thing. It suffers from a somewhat monotonous 80's synth soundtrack but Kurt Russell makes a very appealing Hawksian hero and the film finds a nice balance between horror and black comedy. Rob Bottin's special effects are as impressively gooey as ever and the notion of a creature that utilizes existing human hosts is somehow more plausible in its nightmare logic than the creature in Alien which grows from the size of a small garter snake to a towering six feet plus giant in the course of a few hours. The bleak conclusion and obsession with bodily metamorphosis reminds me not a little of David Cronenbergs work but without the neurotic, tragically flawed central protaganists that he is preoccupied with. As in Romero's classic Night of the Living Dead our own bodies become possessed, enemies bent on destruction and with no happy ending in sight. I always find happy endings in horror films a bit incongruous, after all, isn't it more horrifying and perversely satisfying to conclude with Jack Torrance frozen in a hedge maze or the hero of Night of the Living Dead thrown onto a pile of corpses or the innocent carried away by the creeper in the original Jeepers Creepers than the "happy" endings of Jaws, Alien or The Creature From the Black Lagoon that tell us that once evil is physically subdued all will be alright?

There was a book published by the BFI on this film which is now out of print and fetching close to $100 for a used copy. Maybe a reprint is in the works?

Watching Alien again on the big screen I noticed that some of the models looked like...models, particularly the shots of the Nostromo floating through space. This is NOT something that I noticed with either Star Wars or 2001, both pre-Alien productions. The set design of the Nostromo interiors, particularly the twisted, mazelike lower corridors remain an amazing feat of production design and certainly contribute to the films effectively claustraphobic atmosphere. In fact, up until the moment that the creature emerges from John Hurts chest the film maintains a remarkably sustained mood of dread. Once the threat becomes literalized and a matter of a man in a monster suit (granted, a darn great looking monster suit) the film loses something for me. It is a film in the tradition of The Creature From the Black Lagoon or Jaws, a "monster" movie where the monster is an external force that can be subdued by physical force.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

There was a book published by the BFI on this film which is now out of print and fetching close to $100 for a used copy. Maybe a reprint is in the works?

Wow! It's going for that much? I'm glad that I picked up way back when.

Yeah, it's a fantastic book... very well written with a fairly in-depth analysis of the movie and how it pertains to Carpenter's career in general.

[Always Points North]

The Abyss finally revealed to us the third setting - the deep ocean - after Antarctica and deep space that lends itself to maximal isolation in sci-fi suspense film, though the outcome of that film is quite different from these two.

That is a great observation — it's arguable whether the jungle of Predator could be added as another extreme, isolated environment. Likewise any horror films set in the desert or deep underground.

I've just looked to see when DeepStar Six came out, a film I tried to watch recently but didn't manage to stay with it. Turns out it was later than I thought, 1989 (same as The Abyss) and another deep sea horror film called Leviathan was released the same year. The latter sounds a lot more like Alien actually.

[Always Points North]

Goldenthal's beautiful score,

It's excellent — he can certainly do tragedy. I love his work for Heat too.

[Always Points North]

The final "split" actually takes a turn you wouldn't expect, and the person who is alone, Ripley, is not the one attacked: it is the group of two who have stuck together, and whose regard for the other the alien uses, setting itself between them to prevent being fired upon.

Yeah, that's a good bit of misdirection, and this is an example of why the Alien is so much more frightening when it isn't shown simply as a beast. There are other, more developed, instincts it's using in this scene.

[DarkImbecile]

The final "split" actually takes a turn you wouldn't expect, and the person who is alone, Ripley, is not the one attacked: it is the group of two who have stuck together, and whose regard for the other the alien uses, setting itself between them to prevent being fired upon.

Yeah, that's a good bit of misdirection, and this is an example of why the Alien is so much more frightening when it isn't shown simply as a beast. There are other, more developed, instincts it's using in this scene.

APN, rather than bump the same thread three times in a row, feel free to just quote multiple posts in a single reply.

[colinr0380]

The Abyss finally revealed to us the third setting - the deep ocean - after Antarctica and deep space that lends itself to maximal isolation in sci-fi suspense film, though the outcome of that film is quite different from these two.

That is a great observation — it's arguable whether the jungle of Predator could be added as another extreme, isolated environment. Likewise any horror films set in the desert or deep underground.

I've just looked to see when DeepStar Six came out, a film I tried to watch recently but didn't manage to stay with it. Turns out it was later than I thought, 1989 (same as The Abyss) and another deep sea horror film called Leviathan was released the same year. The latter sounds a lot more like Alien actually.

Leviathan is a bit of both really! It has a very Thing-like monster that kills people after they unwisely ingest the alcohol that it was inside and then mutates their bodies together. Every part of the body is also sentient and can re-grow into a monster, as happens after an amusing accident of chopping off an arm in a door (which goes unnoticed until it turns into a full grown monster again) in the haste to get rid of the bodies.

Also throw in the 'scary space' trend of the late 1980s too: Moontrap, The Dark Side of the Moon etc. I would like to think that they were coming out in the wake of LifeForce!

[Always Points North]

Leviathan[/url] is a bit of both really! It has a very Thing-like monster that kills people after they unwisely ingest the alcohol that it was inside and then mutates their bodies together. Every part of the body is also sentient and can re-grow into a monster, as happens after an amusing accident of chopping off an arm in a door (which goes unnoticed until it turns into a full grown monster again) in the haste to get rid of the bodies.

Also throw in the 'scary space' trend of the late 1980s too: Moontrap, The Dark Side of the Moon etc. I would like to think that they were coming out in the wake of LifeForce!

That sounds hilarious; I can't believe I've never seen it.