Paranoid Park (Gus Van Sant, 2008)

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sevenarts
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#76 Post by sevenarts » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:06 am

davidhare wrote:Calling the homophobic card on any gay character who is "flawed" or in some other way less than perfect is a now routine strategy for mostly younger gay activists who think every gay movie should be like the interminably naff Making Love (or worse.)
I don't think Hitch or his films were homophobic, but I do think it's worth exploring the extent to which he often associated homosexuality (or in the case of Psycho, ambiguous or transgressive sexuality, anyway) with murder and violence. This is true of Bruno in Strangers, and the Leonard character in North by Northwest, and Psycho, and even Rope. The portrayal of homosexuality in all those films is complex, and even in some ways sympathetic, and not at all compatible with simple charges of homophobia. Nevertheless, the association holds true, as it does in numerous films from throughout cinematic history -- Claire Denis comes to mind as another interesting and equally complex example -- of the gay figure as the murderer.

In regard to Psycho, one of the most interesting aspects of the Van Sant remake is the extent to which he reduces the ambiguity of Norman's sexuality. The Anthony Perkins Norman was a very ambiguous figure, somewhat fey perhaps, but mostly sexless, asexual even, his orientation uncertain and undefined. His primal attraction to Janet Leigh was clear, but not necessarily of a sexual nature. In Van Sant's version, the killer becomes definitively heterosexual, both because he's played by a straight actor instead of a gay one, and because of the much maligned change to the scene when he stares at Marion through the peephole. I imagine this scene, which most critics of the remake have vehemently latched onto and questioned the purpose of, was actually Van Sant's response to the trope of the gay as killer. It's his way of underlining that, no, the killer in this case is not gay.

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#77 Post by David Ehrenstein » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:18 am

Gus is also showing what Hitchcock -- for all his audacity -- couldn't back then. It's perfectly obvious that motel owner with a peephole to spy on his guests is going to be chokin' the chicken while using it.

One must also keep in mind, in speaking of gays and Hitchcock, that he was making these films at a time when dealing with anything gay was absolutely verboten according to the strictures of the production code. When Hitch told the code masters that he was goign to be making the film he showed them Hamilton's play. They immediately red-pencilled "My dear boy" and such as "Homosexual dialogue." By Americanizing it, Hitch took what they though was gay out of Rope. But by giving it to Laurents he made one the the gayest films in Hollywood history. It's "slippin' one past the goalie" in the most massive way imaginable.

I'm sorry Hitch never got to meet Gus. He would have adored him.

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pemmican
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#78 Post by pemmican » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:25 am

It's not just gay-as-murderer - Swoon offers us that, too. In Strangers, North, and Psycho, we have gay-as-murderer WHO MUST BE DEFEATED so that the narrative can resolve itself.

It's been a very long time since I looked at North by Northwest, but as I recall the text:

1. In the beginning of the film, Cary Grant is depicted as being dominated by his mother, and thus unable to commit to marriage.

2. He goes through this long ordeal that involves defeating an evil gay couple.

3. He is made a man by the ordeal, overcomes his mother's domination, and marries/ "enters the tunnel."

In order to arrive at 3, he HAS to go through 2 - which I see as a "working through" of his dangerous temptation towards being feminized; it's an ordeal specifically designed to "cure" him of his character defect in 1, which is why it works. I don't think it's in any way accidental to the text that the villains are gay...

Likewise:

1. In Strangers on a Train, Farley can't get married - a complicated divorce gets in the way. He has a troubled history with women.

2. He meets, and is "tempted," by Bruno, who a) is dominated by his mother and b) wants to be liberated from "the law of the father" - aspects of how the film understands his homosexuality.

3. His involvement with Bruno sets up a pattern where Bruno must be defeated/brought under the law of the father if his marriage is to go ahead.

Even in Psycho, there's "sort of" a hetero couple left at the end of the film - Sam and Lila - who are united by the action of subordinating Norman.

I can't speak to Rope - I haven't seen it in years - but in order for social order/successful heterosexuality to move forward in all these films, and for us to arrive at a happy ending/ closure, homosexuals - meaning, the side of the protagonist/viewer that is tempted by homosexuality - must be put down.

P.

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colinr0380
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#79 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:37 am

David Ehrenstein wrote:It's "slippin' one past the goalie" in the most massive way imaginable.
That's a fantastic euphemism! But I understand what you mean, considering all the fuss about whether you could see a breast in the shower scene, with that funny story about Hitch taking the scene away, changing nothing and then representing it whereupon the people who previously saw the breast now saw nothing and those who hadn't could! (For what it's worth I can't fail to miss the out of focus boob in the shot where Marion is reaching out for the shower curtain).

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Lino
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#80 Post by Lino » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:42 am

Hitch was a closet gay. He reportedly didn't have sex with his wife of many years for almost as many. There.

(what I've just written goes against everything I believe and stand for - not labeling people - but it's what this thread is seriously leading to and what everybody is trying to say but can't. I know I will be sorry for doing this pronto. Time for another sorry-ass-themed thread to be inaugurated down-under in the forum? Yes, please)

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Michael
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#81 Post by Michael » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:47 am

Lino wrote:Hitch was a closet gay. He reportedly didn't have sex with his wife of many years for almost as many. There.
Because his wife was not blonde.

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HerrSchreck
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#82 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:49 am

Kirkinson wrote:What I am against is unthinking adherence to a perceived norm at the expense of diversity among individuals, and the way such adherence encourages the feeling that the other group is your enemy.
In terms of the "norm", that feeling... that the splinter groups are their enemy (combined w the fact that the 'norm' has all the mass market funding/press/cops/social slant behind them), and the disdain that the Wholesome Midline had for them (there really is very little of this now in the arts) provoked the sense of militancy as an almost byproduct. Think, for a recent equivalent, about being against Bush' war in 2003 around the bourgeois dinner table at Thanksgiving. You stuck to your guns because you felt you knew what's right. Arguments repeated over passionately held beliefs cause armor and readiness to form. It's a byproduct of folks truly believing what they believe.

It's the same wherever you go, and as splinter groups vie for supremacy or at least recognition versus a common mass image, a healthy Venom & Eternity-style forming of ranks takes place along with plenty of infighting. Rage and frustration are part of the territory, and I take their appearance as a sign that something real is going on, because it's so inevitable. Mick Jagger & Loog wouldn't go near Hendrix, Hendrix & Pete Townsend had a hugely turbulent 'friendship'... ever see the fight at BIG SUR? and this was the Aquarian age. It's just the nature of the beast.

We are generally in agreement otherwise.

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#83 Post by David Ehrenstein » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:09 pm

pemmican, your last post suggests that Hitchcock's films with Grant, Granger and Perkins were all allegories about the gayness of their leading men.

I suspect you're right.

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pemmican
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#84 Post by pemmican » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:39 pm

Thanks for going there with me, David... So what does it mean? It IS odd that he would cast three gay/bi actors in these roles...

BTW, I also am a great admirer of Swoon... and I DO think this discussion has a bearing on Paranoid, since IF the train scene (as the "unspeakable secret" of the film) is meant as an allegory of gayness, then we ALSO have a text here where murder and homosexuality are being connected....

P.

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#85 Post by David Ehrenstein » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:50 pm

Well Hitch always connects sexuality (of every sort) with murder.

Re Swoon Tom Kalin originally planned to have a TV in Leopold and Loeb's room playing clips from Rope and Compulsion, but couldn't arrange the rights. His new film, Savage Grace, is also about gays and murder but in quite a different way. It concerns the Bakelands -- Brooks and Barbara -- a "Golden Couple." His fahter invented Bakelite plastic, thus making so much money that Brooks never had to work a day in his life. He married Barbara -- an aspiring actress and considerable beauty. They had a son, Tony, who was gay. Brooks told her it was her fault and she should fix it. So she went to bed with him.

Not a good idea.

Eventually he went WAY off the edge and murdered her. He died in prison. Tom has been wanting to make this movie (based on an oral history of the case) ever since Swoon. And I've been waiting to see it as I met Tony a few times, knew his circle quite well and spent a rather full evening with his boyfriend.

Anyway Julianne Moore plays Barbara in the film, whic premiered earlier this year at Cannes in Un certain regard.

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#86 Post by David Ehrenstein » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:51 pm

pemmican wrote:It IS odd that he would cast three gay/bi actors in these roles...
Not at all.

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Michael
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#87 Post by Michael » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:20 pm

To get closer to understanding the sexuality of Gus' teens, when discussing the killers in Elephant, in his words quoted from a really nice book The View From Here: Conversations with Gay and Lesbian Filmmakers by Matthew Hays (just published):

"...I didn't think I'd label these two kids gay. In some ways, it's that they just haven't ever kissed anyone. It's that they are inexperienced, innocent kids. They don't know what they're doing in the shower and they don't know what they're doing on the way to the school with the guns.

...The killers may be gay, but so are the kids in the gay-straight alliance in the film. That's the thing about high school, the gay kids aren't sure if they're gay...the film's not really saying that anyone's gay or straight. Just becausae one kid gets into the shower and kisses another kid doesn't make him gay. I think that makes a kiss."

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tryavna
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#88 Post by tryavna » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:25 pm

pemmican wrote:It's been a very long time since I looked at North by Northwest, but as I recall the text:

1. In the beginning of the film, Cary Grant is depicted as being dominated by his mother, and thus unable to commit to marriage.

2. He goes through this long ordeal that involves defeating an evil gay couple.
Mason's and Landau's characters are both gay in NxNW? I've always accepted the assumption that Leonard is gay, but I don't buy that Van Damme is, too. What's the point/importance of Eva Marie Saint's character if she's not sleeping with Mason?

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zedz
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#89 Post by zedz » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:50 pm

pemmican wrote:BTW, I also am a great admirer of Swoon... and I DO think this discussion has a bearing on Paranoid, since IF the train scene (as the "unspeakable secret" of the film) is meant as an allegory of gayness, then we ALSO have a text here where murder and homosexuality are being connected....
I don't think it's going too far to read sexual ambivalence into the main character of Paranoid Park (his girlfriend issues, for a start), and blind lust is the most readily available motivation for him going off with the dangerous dominant male who precipitates that disaster. The irrevocable calamity is thus not just the surface tale of moral guilt and legal culpability (heavy enough), but one that goes to the heart of his sexual and psychological identity - he 'gives in' to erotic temptation and is 'caught out' in the most alarming way. Even in the journal, in which he can try to work out all this bad, bad stuff, he can't bring himself to express the darkest part of his secret. That's one way of looking at it, anyway.

On the style issue, although style-in-service-to-content is fair enough, I don't see that it's essential to the integrity of a film. There are plenty of great directors (and why not Van Sant?) whose style is all about their authorial personality and not about the subject matter of the moment. Personally, I thought the pervasive eroticisation of everything in Paranoid Park was a fine way to represent an adolescent worldview, and it makes the hallucinatory scene in which we get to see the "unspeakable secret" all the more effective. It's probably the least gratuitous use of a gratuitous special effect I've seen this year, and the paradox in this sentence is the best way for me to get at the complexity of mood in that scene.

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#90 Post by pemmican » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:22 pm

Other writing projects are going to suffer if I keep this up. I may soon be absent from the board.

Of interest: there WAS mention of Alex and Jared sleeping together in an early draft of the screenplay. (Just interviewed Blake Nelson, the author of the book that it's based on - he confirms this).

People interested in the film should check out the book, it's a great read; don't let it being YA fiction put you off - it's very engaging for an adult.

P.

drakula
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#91 Post by drakula » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:55 am

pemmican wrote:
drakula wrote:Alex did in fact have a gay sex scene with Jared in the original script.
Source for that? Very interesting.
As far as I can remember, it was a brief flashback scene while Alex was thinking about his relationship with Jennifer. Didn't have anything explicit besides Jared saying to Alex post-coital that he was 'so good.'

Not wanting to get into the debate, but imo it was written out so long ago that I don't think it says anything about the final film anymore.

The script shouldn't be too hard to find, it's been floating around for awhile now.

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#92 Post by John Cope » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:25 am

We should really be thankful to have this film. It's both great and succinct, like Hernandez's magisterial A Thousand Clouds of Peace; pared down to an essence with scrupulous care, but an essence which does not restrict or retract but rather radiates out, informing everything it touches. Paranoid Park is mostly devoted to evoking details of psychic space but there are fascinating allusions to the exterior world. The Iraq references recall a similar handling in The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael, a film equally powerful but far less tender or merciful.

I missed some of the scenes and development from the book but this is, appropriately, a different animal. The images and music are all selected with precision and carry the film. The piece used over Alex's meeting with the two girls at the mall is particularly evocative. As for images, Alex skating under an umbrella and heavy skies feels like a limited emotional release, but the only possible one. And the shower scene is a superb fusion of sensual image and transportive sound design. This is also one of the only films I've ever seen to get the spectacle of socially sanctioned teenage sexuality right, depicting it as pure burlesque.

The ending may disturb some, but it's positioned at a remove from the action and Van Sant's commentary is highly circumspect. If it emerges as critique, as I believe it does, it only does so as a product of the viewer's imposed relationship to what is present on screen. My own feeling is that it illustrates the inevitable, compassionate but delimited, moral structure that results from the absence of any comprehensible central authority. All the symbolic figures of authority are presented as essentially ineffectual or impotent. And, crucially, this reflects an additional absent dimension of purposive social construction. But, as I said, that's only my own imposed reading on what remains, admirably, an opaque cinematic text.

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#93 Post by Antoine Doinel » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:25 am

In an article about the search for distribution for John Sayles' Honeydripper, there was this little bit of info:

[quote]Gus van Sant's new “Paranoid Parkâ€

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Lino
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#94 Post by Lino » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:03 am

Went to see this one yesterday and my first reactions were not good. It felt to me that Van Sant was self-referencing and self-quoting himself almost to a point of self-parody: the close-ups on the teenagers faces, the autumn leaves on the sidewalks (reminding us of its memorable use inElephant), the sense of existencial ennui and detachment so characteristic to adolescence, a kind of editing that played around with notions of time and finally, enigmatic dialogues and pregnant pauses.

Then it got me thinking that maybe I should accept this kind of filmmaking which is so inherent to Van Sant since it seems to be a style that he's been developing for the past 3 or 4 movies (heck, I've been watching the same Woody Allen schtick for decades now, so...) and suddenly the movie began to work for me. Besides, Doyle's photography is as good as ever here.

But what really made it work was the sound design, recorded both during and post-production. From time to time, we get innundated with cacophonies of sounds and music that manage to create a sort of aural landscape that puts us in a sort of trance-like state of enjoyment with the movie. And the use of Nino Rota's music throughout works wonderfully, both as perfect complement to the action and as indication of our own personal movie-watching memories, which is entirely appropriate since the movie is about recollection and memory and how it all comes together to form the pattern of our interior lives.

Lastly, I would only like to say that I think that Paranoid Park is a much more fitting inclusion (and conclusion) to Van Sant's so called Death Trilogy than Gerry ever will be. And it offers a whole new approach to the subject that is much more interesting: while the first three (Gerry, Elephant and Last Days) were on a certain level about the embracing of death, Paranoid Park is the opposite - it's about the denial of death by the main character and how he comes to terms with it.

This then is his Antonioni trilogy/tetralogy, always open for debate.

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#95 Post by David Ehrenstein » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:27 am

What Nino Rota does Gus use? Is it by any chance Fellini Casanova? That score has becoem a real fetish lately turning up in both I'm Not There and My Kid Could Paint That.

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tavernier
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#96 Post by tavernier » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:02 pm

There was some Rota from Juliet of the Spirits (and maybe Amarcord), but I don't think there was any from Casanova.

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#97 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:06 pm

tavernier wrote:There was some Rota from Juliet of the Spirits (and maybe Amarcord), but I don't think there was any from Casanova.
Yup! I believe there are two sequences that use stuff from Amarcord. The rest is mostly from Juliet of the Spirits.

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Lino
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#98 Post by Lino » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:46 pm

David Ehrenstein wrote:What Nino Rota does Gus use? Is it by any chance Fellini Casanova? That score has becoem a real fetish lately turning up in both I'm Not There and My Kid Could Paint That.
Mostly Juliet of the Spirits and later on one small piece from Amarcord, though I could swear I heard another one from Casanova but if there is, it's not listed in the end credits.

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#99 Post by Argonaut69 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:07 am

Harry Hamlin was a lot hotter in Clash of the Titans - my first "porn".

Young gay activists should think every gay movie should be like Mala Noche.
Same here re: Hamlin in Clash...and as for Mala Noche, it's really amazing how much more I like that film than probably any other gay-themed film from the 1980's.

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#100 Post by Lino » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:18 pm

Here's an interview with Gus in which he mentions that PP was shot 1.37, one more reason to tie it with the formal design of Elephant and Last Days and one more reason to put Gerry out of the trilogy. But hey, I'm not complaining.

Oh, and I saw it projected in 1.85. Sigh. You can't have it all. I'll wait for the DVD, though.

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