Star Wars: The Force Awakens (J.J. Abrams, 2015)

[flyonthewall2983]

But the special edition will include a new hat!

What I really want to know is if it has the THX logo up-front.

[movielocke]

SpoilerShow

I'm assuming the reason nobody wanted to talk about Han dying is the fear of 'spoiling' it for people- which I get, but at some point it starts killing discussion of a movie. That said, I thought it worked quite well for a beat which a.) was essentially a repetition Obi Wan dying in the first movie and b.) felt like it might have been the only way to convince Ford (who famously wanted his character to die in RotJ) to come back to the franchise- you question both Driver's motivation and his fortitude in committing a heinous act, but I think his wobbly conscience is precisely why the moment works. He is a child (a much better realization of the idea of a troubled, angry teen than Christiansen) who is following a dark path because he doesn't really know what he's doing, but also out of some as yet unspecified rage at his father. He's put into a moment of crisis, and I think the beat is really interesting- clearly, Han could have killed him, and it is meant to feel as though that is what Driver is requesting, as he is asking his father to help him do what must be done. When he kills Han, there's an ambiguity, but it does seem as though Han may (again, reprising Obi Wan's self sacrifice) allowed himself to die to ease the unbearable torment his son was feeling; he could not win him back, and he could not kill him, so he helps his son to resolve himself. In doing so, he seems to gain Driver's respect, which is a beat that I suspect will be followed upon in the forthcoming movies.

I do think the degree to which the movie followed the blueprint of Star Wars got in its way- the whole Starkiller Base thing seemed halfassed and incompletely thought out, both in terms of power level and devastation caused- but that was a beat that I thought drew upon the originals in a way that enriched it, rather than making it feel like a retread.

SpoilerShow

I agree, and I would also argue that Force Awakens is drawing liberally from all three of the original trilogy for important dramatic moments, but is more specifically adapting Return of the Jedi than Star Wars--particularly because Jedi culminates in the dramatic decision of the Son refusing to kill the Father (Luke's refusal is the climax of his arc through the trilogy) and by choosing to lose Luke ultimately wins. Whereas what Force Awakens sets up for us is an extremely specific inversion of this story. The Son chooses to kill the Father and in so doing will ultimately lose and the remaining two films will resolve the fallout from Kylo Ren's choice. So we have a trilogy end with Luke's choice and trilogy beginning with Ren's opposite choice.

Additionally, the film is structurally adapting Jedi. Star Wars is a sequential film: Tatooine, Death Star rescue, Assault on Death Star. Jedi is an intercut film, with the commando infiltration of the shield generator intercut with the assault on the Death Star II intercut with Luke confronting Vader and the Emperor. Force Awakens is a better example of the latter film, we have the commando "rescue" intercut with the aerial assault on Star Killer Base intercut with Han, Rey and Finn confronting Ren. The film is also adapting the climax of Empire Strikes back to create visual resonance with that film's father and son scene and as with Jedi, the film is inverting the outcome of the father son confrontations--here the father falls instead of the son.

I prefer the structure of Awakens because the scenes of the climax are not segregated stories but develop into one another, the commando raid becomes a "rescue" and then Rey is able to facilitate commando success which draws Ren's attention and then Chewie and Rey and Finn all react to Ren's murder of Han. Although this is intercut with the aerial assault, the plotting is much more constructive and coherent and the characterizations and developments are better designed than anything in the original series climaxes.

My favorite dramatic adaptation in Force Awakens is the scene with Rey in the snow, calling the lightsaber to her. The wampa scene in Empire Strikes Back is amazing, it is the first time that Luke uses the force actively in the series (rather than passively 'trusting his feelings') and he successively telekinetically summons his lightsaber to himself despite having absolutely no training in the force other than instinctively knowing such a thing was possible. Dramatically,it is incredibly odd to have that scene at the beginning of a film, when that sort of realization--such as him successfully passively tapping the force to sense the right moment to destroy the death star--is naturally a climactic moment rather than an introductory one. This scene, which is tremendously successful, was only conceived because Mark Hammil got in a car accident and they felt they had to write a scene to explain his facial scar. I love that they pulled this powerful realization of ability in the force forward to it's proper place as the climax of Rey's story arc. It is so incredibly satisfying.

[domino harvey]

Bottleneck Gallery will be selling limited edition prints of the above today starting at noon EST

[domino harvey]

Second of many bites of the apple coming November 15th with new Blu-Ray for the Force Awakens with commentary and new deleted scenes

[captveg]

Waiting for the promised 3D release pays off this time.

[bearcuborg]

Waiting for the promised 3D release pays off this time.

That is until they release The Whole Bloody Affair version...

[aox]

Any thoughts as to why Disney dropped the "Episode VII" moniker from the title of TFA (and I assume this practice will continue)?

The only thing I can think of is they feel it might take away from the standalone films with people feeling those are lesser so you don't have to go see them?

[pzadvance]

Any thoughts as to why Disney dropped the "Episode VII" moniker from the title of TFA (and I assume this practice will continue)?

Was wondering this as well in the leadup to TFA's release. If anything, I would think it'd be helpful to use the Episode #s to distinguish the "saga" titles from the spinoffs-- since, as has been suggested before, it's entirely possible that the general public UNfamiliar with the studio's production strategy might reasonably assume that a "new Star Wars film" would just be the sequel to what came out the year before. Curious to see how that works for them.

[solaris72]

The higher the number gets, the less appealing it is from a marketing standpoint.

[captveg]

I believe the reasons already stated are part of it, but I also think it was a lingering effect of the Prequels. Those films were heavily promoted with the Episode # to emphasize how they took place chronologically. With TFA they wanted to convey the spirit/vibe of the OT, which were sold on their respective individual titles for The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

Technically the Episode # is still part of the title on the film itself as it is for the other six films; it's just not used in the promotion.

I have my doubts that "A Star Wars Story" will appear in the actual titles of the spin-off films. That seems like an exclusively marketing term. So, on screen, the actual title of Rogue One will likely be "Star Wars: Rogue One" (My guess is it'll start with the regular "A long time ago... STAR WARS" titles, but then simply say "Rogue One" in yellow font without a crawl, instead going straight into the first scene).

[MoonlitKnight]

I'll be skipping "Rogue One" - as well as all subsequent standalone SW movies - since a) I really only care about the 'core' saga revolving around the Skywalker family, the Force, the Jedi/Sith, and the Galactic government; and b) they'll most likely be glorified fan films just as TFA was. Help me, Rian Johnson, you're my last hope... for keeping me interested in this franchise.

[bearcuborg]

I'll be skipping "Rogue One" - as well as all subsequent standalone SW movies - since a) I really only care about the 'core' saga revolving around the Skywalker family, the Force, the Jedi/Sith, and the Galactic government; and b) they'll most likely be glorified fan films just as TFA was. Help me, Rian Johnson, you're my last hope... for keeping me interested in this franchise.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? Rogue One seems to tie into the core trilogy very much. It appears we'll finally get the Vader we were promised in the prequels. It lays serious groundwork for the Sith/Jedi/Force, and will certainly have to deal with the Galatic government. It's going to be drastically different from the core films in tone-at least as I've been told so far.

[MoonlitKnight]

As I've seen a few others mention online, I honestly think "Rogue One" should've been released last year to serve as Disney's 'reintroduction' to SW. I mean, it takes place during the same era as the OT, and, thus, has plenty of familiar goodies for all the 'hopeless nostalgics.' With that sugar-high out of the way, then we could've hopefully ended up getting a more proper Episode VII next month that wasn't a pandering rehash of the original movie wrapped in mediocre fanfic and a bunch of virtually fourth wall-breaking winks to the OT ... and would've actually stayed faithful to - and, more importantly, expanded upon - the world-building and lore/mythos Lucas created for this universe in the first 6 movies instead of giving us more of the same stuff we've already gotten.

I'll probably catch these standalones down the road when they're on TV or something where I can see them for free.

BTW, when were we promised a more OT-like Vader in the prequels?

[domino harvey]

Yeah, Disney really made a mistake when they released the highest grossing domestic film of all time

[MoonlitKnight]

Yeah, Disney really made a mistake when they released the highest grossing domestic film of all time

... which totally has everything to do with the quality of said movie.

[domino harvey]

Not everything, but a large part. Is your argument that a film became the highest grossing movie of all time by not giving audiences what they wanted? The film was widely received warmly. You hold the minority opinion on it, which is your right, but don't act like you have a mandate on taste when all evidence, critical and commercial, points elsewhere. My point was that you are making arguments based on the utterly false notion that Disney made a mistake by releasing the most popular film of all time

[matrixschmatrix]

I mean, we got what it would look like to have a serious expansion upon Lucas's original ideas, moving beyond the original trilogy into something more expansive and weirder. It was the prequel trilogy, and most people didn't like it. The Force Awakens was pretty clearly moving in the other direction- which is why one hires J.J. Abrams- and while it may have been an over correction, it seems preferable to the ugly mess that was The Phantom Menace.

I'm also not clear on what basis you're calling Rogue One a 'sugar high'- it looks like it's going to be ultimately pretty grim, with most of the leads dying and (obviously) a grim dystopia controlling most of the onscreen world.

[MoonlitKnight]

No, I was making an argument based on maintaining the integrity of the series, and, more significantly, the vision of its creator; not for exploiting people's love of nostalgia (i.e. the 'sugar-high'), which is becoming an increasingly troubling trend in Hollywood.

[domino harvey]

No, I was making an argument based on maintaining the integrity of the series, and, more significantly, the vision of its creator; not for exploiting people's love of nostalgia, which is becoming an increasingly troubling trend in Hollywood.

Again, you are in the minority here. Most Star Wars fans loved it. A vocal minority did not. You don't speak for the masses from a position apart from them

[bearcuborg]

When were promised original trilogy Vader? Uh...from the beginning-when you see the Vader shadow behind the kid in the teaser poster. I'm in the minority wherein I don't think the prequels are a total waste, but it certainly did a lousy job setting up Vader as a badass. If anything, Obi Wan is the mushroom cloud laying mother fucker of the prequels. He beats Maul, doesn't get his arm cut off vs Tyranus, kills Grevious, and beats the CGI out of little orphan Ani.

And yeah, you have a goofy hate for Force Awakens as pointed out above, but I would argue that there is some interesting deviations from the Lucas films. Rey's backstory, Finn's break from the First Order, Kylo isn't a Sith - neither is Snoke. Eh, I'm not crazy about them destroying more planets, blowing up some stupid Death Star, or that the planet environments had none of the intrigue of Lucas's movies...yeah, some of it did feel like a Star Wars greatest hits.

However, let's be honest. The prequels have Star Wars problems, not just movie problems. Lucas was unfaithful to the lore of the original three. The Force Awakens did begin to make things right again. Fourth/Force wall broken be damned.

[MoonlitKnight]

When were promised original trilogy Vader? Uh...from the beginning-when you see the Vader shadow behind the kid in the teaser poster. I'm in the minority wherein I don't think the prequels are a total waste, but it certainly did a lousy job setting up Vader as a badass. If anything, Obi Wan is the mushroom cloud laying mother fucker of the prequels. He beats Maul, doesn't get his arm cut off vs Tyranus, kills Grevious, and beats the CGI out of little orphan Ani.

And yeah, you have a goofy hate for Force Awakens as pointed out above, but I would argue that there is some interesting deviations from the Lucas films. Rey's backstory, Finn's break from the First Order, Kylo isn't a Sith - neither is Snoke. Eh, I'm not crazy about them destroying more planets, blowing up some stupid Death Star, or that the planet environments had none of the intrigue of Lucas's movies...yeah, some of it did feel like a Star Wars greatest hits.

However, let's be honest. The prequels have Star Wars problems, not just movie problems. Lucas was unfaithful to the lore of the original three. The Force Awakens did begin to make things right again. Fourth/Force wall broken be damned.

To my dying day I'll maintain that if the prequels had a more skilled screenwriter adapting Lucas' general storyline - and perhaps a more actor-friendly director - they would've been held in almost as high a regard as the OT and - though I totally disagree - the botched surgery that was TFA (which I still largely consider little more than a glorified fan film). I'm sorry, like most people, you succumbed to certain preconceptions about the prequels that turned out to not be true. Most of the 'lore' problems in the prequels are petty shit from people taking certain lines from the OT literally, such as Yoda being Obi-Wan's sole trainer and Leia having memories of her mother. TFA has numerous problems involving not only Rey being able to do tons of Jedi shit almost immediately, but also the returning OT heroes making choicest that just don't ring true to their OT character arcs... and, perhaps most significantly, the total lack of context regarding how the galactic government changed in the 30 years since the end of ROTJ. I realize some of these things may be explained in Episode VIII and/or IX, but, until they are, they remain problematic. For the best, most analytical look at the essence of the lore Lucas created for this universe, watch the documentary "Star Wars: The Legacy Revealed." I believe it's still on YouTube.

[domino harvey]

Are we being played right now?

[bearcuborg]

It's a trap!

[chiendent]

Still laughing at "integrity of the series."

Look, I'm at the age where Episode I was the first Star Wars I saw in theaters when I was 8 or so and I loved it (funny enough, The Clone Wars is the first movie ever I remember actually not enjoying). If I'd been that old when Episode VII came out I'd have loved it even more. I understand a lot of the criticism but cmon, f you want to take the "lore" that seriously and throw "problematic" around there's more than enough old EU stuff out there.

[Big Ben]

There's a rule on the internet that states it's impossible to tell if someone is trolling or is being legitimately sincere. For what it's worth I think said user is being sincere.

Be disgusted with me all you wish but I've never been convinced Lucas is the creative genius people make him out to be. I think he's a great world-builder but he can't tell a story to save his life and I've never paid much mind to Star Wars' story because of this. Throw in bad dialogue and poop jokes like the prequels did and I'm even more convinced Lucas' success has been due to other people directing and having at least some control over films like The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

I will never ever get over this scene either. Hysterical.



You know what I thought was great mainstream fun? The Force Awakens. Why? Because Lucas wasn't involved.