Marvel Comics on Film

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#126 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:23 pm

I saw something on Twitter about Coppola liking Black Panther

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#127 Post by quim_font » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm

knives wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:14 pm
Or even many of the B-movies that they enjoy. To be fair though Spielberg and Lucas haven't actually said anything recently.
Except, of course, those B-movies weren’t made on the computer. The technical aspect can’t be ignored, the process of making of a marvel movie is much different.

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Murdoch
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#128 Post by Murdoch » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:45 pm


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Brian C
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#129 Post by Brian C » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:24 pm

quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm
Except, of course, those B-movies weren’t made on the computer. The technical aspect can’t be ignored, the process of making of a marvel movie is much different.
Kind of an arbitrary distinction though, isn't it? Are we going to pretend now that all movies with CGI aren't cinema now?

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Big Ben
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#130 Post by Big Ben » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:25 pm

Brian C wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:24 pm
quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm
Except, of course, those B-movies weren’t made on the computer. The technical aspect can’t be ignored, the process of making of a marvel movie is much different.
Kind of an arbitrary distinction though, isn't it? Are we going to pretend now that all movies with CGI aren't cinema now?
I mean if we're going that far do projects by Pixar not count as well?

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#131 Post by quim_font » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Brian C wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:24 pm
quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm
Except, of course, those B-movies weren’t made on the computer. The technical aspect can’t be ignored, the process of making of a marvel movie is much different.
Kind of an arbitrary distinction though, isn't it? Are we going to pretend now that all movies with CGI aren't cinema now?
You’d have to ask Scorsese and Coppola. I was just pointing out we’re talking about the perspective of two directors who grew up fully analog, so it’s not surprising.

But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.

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aox
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#132 Post by aox » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:51 pm

quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:37 pm
Brian C wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:24 pm
quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm
Except, of course, those B-movies weren’t made on the computer. The technical aspect can’t be ignored, the process of making of a marvel movie is much different.
Kind of an arbitrary distinction though, isn't it? Are we going to pretend now that all movies with CGI aren't cinema now?
You’d have to ask Scorsese and Coppola. I was just pointing out we’re talking about the perspective of two directors who grew up fully analog, so it’s not surprising.

But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.
Yes, but I personally consider Hugo to be "cinema". It's how you use it. Ready Player One might be a better example of a middle ground in this argument between Hugo and MCU.

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Brian C
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#133 Post by Brian C » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:30 pm

quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:37 pm
But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.
The answer to this is exceedingly simple - it's because Scorsese is not really talking about the use of CGI. The association between CGI and MCU is one that you've made, not him.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#134 Post by quim_font » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:07 pm

Brian C wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:30 pm
quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:37 pm
But yes, surprised no one has tried to charge Scorsese with hypocrisy given he’s used CGI often in the last decade.
The answer to this is exceedingly simple - it's because Scorsese is not really talking about the use of CGI. The association between CGI and MCU is one that you've made, not him.
That’s how I interpreted it when he said they are “...made like theme parks.” Granted his comments were vague.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#135 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:22 pm

The last few times I've been on a roller coaster it was made of steel or wood, not CGI

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#136 Post by quim_font » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:33 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:22 pm
The last few times I've been on a roller coaster it was made of steel or wood, not CGI
Apparently you haven’t been in a bit, or don’t have children, because VR is all over theme parks now. It’s almost as if there’s a theme now running through entertainment as varied as movies and theme parks...hell, there’s a VR-augmented roller coaster called DC Superhero Drop of Doom

There’s a VR theme park company called The Void, which has more than double the locations worldwide than six flags has (and yes, there is an avengers and Star Wars ride). So I’m not sure what your point is.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#137 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:55 pm

That seems like something that Scorsese is definitely plugged into

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#138 Post by quim_font » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:03 pm

A broad trend in entertainment, one that influences his medium? Yea it does seem like something he’d be plugged into, specific cases aside.

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Brian C
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#139 Post by Brian C » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:14 pm

quim_font wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:03 pm
A broad trend in entertainment, one that influences his medium? Yea it does seem like something he’d be plugged into, specific cases aside.
What's your argument here, exactly? The presence of VR in modern theme parks aside, it remains the case that Scorsese didn't seem to be talking about CGI, considering that he's used CGI in his films himself, as have any number of critically renowned filmmakers.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#140 Post by nitin » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:31 pm

Cameron and Spielberg’s 80-90s output (I cant vouch for Spielberg’s more recent movies, haven’t seen them) is very different to the MCU output which are virtually the same movie over and over again. I have seen 12 to date (up to the end of phase 2), like 4 of the them well enough to recommend, and don’t really think any of the 12 are terrible except maybe Age of Ultron. But there is very little variation between them apart from the identity of the heroes/villains and sometimes the general setting.

Although, I would take most of them over Avatar especially if we really do end up seeing Avatar 2-5.

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movielocke
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#141 Post by movielocke » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:24 am

On the other hand twenty years ago in film school, professors literally said things like “terminator isn’t cinema, Jurassic park isn’t film,” so this is also just what old people say about things that are less old. Grandpa Simpson yells at cloud.

And didn’t Coppola direct “captain eo”? An actual theme park attraction!

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#142 Post by dda1996a » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:35 am

movielocke wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:24 am
On the other hand twenty years ago in film school, professors literally said things like “terminator isn’t cinema, Jurassic park isn’t film,” so this is also just what old people say about things that are less old. Grandpa Simpson yells at cloud.

And didn’t Coppola direct “captain eo”? An actual theme park attraction!
Did they ever say directing a theme park attraction was frowned upon? But there is a difference between that, or a Michael Jackson music video, to an actual film.
And I don't think this is a generation gap disconnect, or an old man yelling at the young. Scorsese and his recent films never felt out of date or disconnected from our times, whatever you may say.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#143 Post by nitin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 am

Theme parks are also virtually the same ride over and over again.

But yeah it must be because these people are old.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#144 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 am

nitin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 am
But yeah it must be because these people are old.
This is the point exactly. And this is not to be taken as an insult as I am closer to their age than the MCU crowd. But I think the point is they came from cinema. They cut their teeth watching cinema. As a kid Scorsese watched Powell and Pressburger, Italian neo-realism, Fellini and a little later the French New Wave. I'm sure Copolla followed the same path, as did Lucas who was all about Kurosawa which shows up in Star Wars. Int'l films and many American films from that same era were very influential to those filmmakers that started in the 60's. I believe this is more of what Scorsese was going for in his comments. They can't relate to or feel anything about this modern style of movie and movie making.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#145 Post by nitin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:45 am

Maybe, but I think the over saturation also has a lot to do with it. If we got one every 2 years, you probably wouldn’t hear anything but we are getting 6-10 a year at the moment (to be fair not all are MCU).

And I am not sure it is just an age thing. I have no film background or film education, and I am 37 and only really got into regular movie watching in the early 2000s. As I say above, I have seen 12 of the MCU films so far, enjoyed most of them and quite liked 4 of them, but are they largely the same film over and over again. Yes I think they are.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#146 Post by dda1996a » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:17 am

FrauBlucher wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 am
nitin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 am
But yeah it must be because these people are old.
This is the point exactly. And this is not to be taken as an insult as I am closer to their age than the MCU crowd. But I think the point is they came from cinema. They cut their teeth watching cinema. As a kid Scorsese watched Powell and Pressburger, Italian neo-realism, Fellini and a little later the French New Wave. I'm sure Copolla followed the same path, as did Lucas who was all about Kurosawa which shows up in Star Wars. Int'l films and many American films from that same era were very influential to those filmmakers that started in the 60's. I believe this is more of what Scorsese was going for in his comments. They can't relate to or feel anything about this modern style of movie and movie making.
But the MCU films arent really a "modern style", especially not close to post modern films from the 90's like Tarantino, Jonze, Gondry, Kaufman, Nolan, Jarmusch etc. They aren't Fight Club or even Shrek. And I don't think it's specifically them being big budget blockbusters, as Scorsese and Coppola went through the 80's which were full of those films. I think the biggest problems are that all the Super hero films nowadays are basically just trying to be a really long, big budget series. They suffer from the same problems that caused me to stop reading the regular Marvel comic books, mainly their lack of singular self sufficient and dramatic arcs that really engage with the heroes (compare any of the MCU films to something like Batman Begins, and not just in the "it's edgier and darker" comparison). I don't think there is much difference between the MCU and something like Grey's Anatomy or a similar, long running TV series, just with a bigger budget and stars, and longer episodes. And on the other hand, specialty films have been taking a beating, so we are mostly stuck with Disney rehashes of the same thing in new clothing.
Compare the old super hero films, like Raimi's Spider-Man, Burton and Nolan's Batman, to all these movies that come out. Big difference (in that they just copy the same story structure and beats as opposed to actual dramatic arcs as I said [just to be clear])

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#147 Post by tenia » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:40 am

I was at Coppola's press conference where he said that about Marvel, and unfortunately, the context of his full answer hasn't been given.

What Coppola included this short summary into was a more general point about a few studios currently being in the process of getting rich and accumulating wealth for the sole purpose of doing that. In a world where fortunes are getting done most often on the back of a part of the population getting poorer and poorer, he thinks doing movies with so little risks and so impersonal are a waste of human people and that this is despicable.
Then, he summed it up by saying "Martin was kind with them, I think what they're doing is despicable".

His press conference was very moving, more so than his masterclass the day before. He talked about utopia, and the state of the world in a very naive but optimistic way. To him, movies should be personal, because the people making them were 1 chance in a million to be born, so they should never make something anybody else could have done too.

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Brian C
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#148 Post by Brian C » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:36 am

Thanks for the context tenia - good reporting! Perhaps Scorsese’s comments had more context than reported as well.

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#149 Post by tenia » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:24 am

I do wish Coppola didn't sum it up though, because without this final line, the reporting would have required the context explaining the lack of personality and the industrial-like aspect of these movies, plus the over-capitalistic wealth accumulation they generate. Sadly, he did sum it up, allowing for most media to simply report this quip in 2 sentences. Frémaux seemed quite happy about Coppola saying something like this though, I'm quite sure he anticipated the buzz it'd generate.
But it's unfortunate, because again, his press conference was very moving and the context in which he told this made much more sense than simply tackling these movies. What he tackled clearly was the money-insanity-driven aspect of the franchise. It reminds me of Good Night & Good Luck final line about TV being only "wires and lights in a box". What Coppola said, ultimately, to be despicable is wasting cinema to just making money and contenting shareholders with it.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#150 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:57 am

Right, and Scorsese made a point of [at least implying] that very good actors are valuable resources who are being wasted on these projects. Which is very, very, very true.

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