Memoria (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2021)

[soundchaser]

Presumably this film is about the preciousness of one-time experiences? In any case, if one of those other distributors puts out a home video release, problem solved.

I'm curious if zedz, who I believe has seen the film, thinks this is a fitting strategy or a corny gimmick

I haven't seen the film, but a fairly easy counter is that all experiences are one-time experiences by virtue of the time/place/headspace in which you experience them.

In any case, I look forward to inevitably pirating this when it comes nowhere within a hundred miles of me.

WKW was right?

Let it never be said philosophy can't be used as a blunt instrument.

[swo17]

The inaccessibility of that album is completely different to and a far less literal inaccessibility than that being forced upon Memoria by Neon, that is not a fair comparison

So many great films are far less accessible than this though, I'd rather fret about that

[Never Cursed]

Sure, but that isn't an argument in support of what Neon is doing, nor is it really the same thing - most of the older or foreign-language treasures that haven't gotten a good English-friendly release are in that situation because they've been neglected or treated with apathy by their rights-holders (in that they don't see them as profitable potential releases or that they don't see the social/artistic benefit of releasing the films as greater than the economic cost), whereas Neon knows people want to see Memoria in the US, wants to distribute it widely and at a profit, but is deliberately and arbitrarily making viewing the film impossible for many

[swo17]

What about the millions of films you will never get to see that get made after you die?

[Never Cursed]

What, can I not watch movies in heaven now?

[swo17]

Not if Neon's distributors have anything to say about it!

[Never Cursed]

Hoping that God won't cast me into a lake of boiling oil for seeding the HQ rip of Cuckoo in the great beyond...

[Glowingwabbit]

Neon knows people want to see Memoria in the US, wants to distribute it widely and at a profit, but is deliberately and arbitrarily making viewing the film impossible for many

The fact that they are deciding to do this in the middle of a pandemic is enough for me to just not see any Neon films at the theater period.

[therewillbeblus]

I thought we already had a thread about NEON being terrible at distribution but a cursory search shows those convos have just been redistributed to various individual films. Apparently there was (and, likely, will continue to be) a lot more discussion to be had around their puzzling 'models' than we predicted!

[swo17]

Neon knows people want to see Memoria in the US, wants to distribute it widely and at a profit, but is deliberately and arbitrarily making viewing the film impossible for many

The fact that they are deciding to do this in the middle of a pandemic is enough for me to just not see any Neon films at the theater period.

Fair point, though this doesn't start for another couple of months, at which point I assume the U.S. will have either conquered COVID through mandatory vaccination or given up trying

[Never Cursed]

We have already (given up trying)

[swo17]

Right but I mean that even the people that haven't yet given up may feel like we've exhausted all of our options if even mandating the vaccine doesn't do the trick

[therewillbeblus]

Wait, we’re a divided country?

[swo17]

Wait, we're a country?

[hearthesilence]

Saw this last night at the NYFF with Apichatpong and Tilda Swinton doing a Q&A. It was "sold out" but I'm guessing everyone in standby got in because there were definitely empty seats to fill (and it was a long line). They will be back tonight for another screening and Q&A, again in Alice Tully, so if you can, definitely go - once again it's standby-only.

I can totally understand why they want to keep this in theaters. Without giving away too much, within a minute of the opening shot, you'll understand why its impact would be blunted anywhere else.

Still processing it, I thought I had a eureka moment where everything - politically and historically - fell beautifully in place in what seemed to be the climactic scene, but the ending was such an unexpected turn, I'm still left wondering how much I might be missing. It's a wonderful experience and Apichatpong is still as impressive as ever.

[senseabove]

I can totally understand why they want to keep this in theaters. Without giving away too much, within a minute of the opening shot, you'll understand why its impact would be blunted anywhere else.

Aside from the fact that, in a theater,

SpoilerShow

they'll have properly leveled the sound beforehand so the dynamic range has the intended effect,

I don't think there's anything in this movie that a half-way decent home theater set-up couldn't handle just fine? In fact, sound-wise, I think I might prefer this at home in mine, since the sound field—which is very important to the movie—would feel a lot more dense and enveloping than it did in a cavernous theater, even one with a top-of-the-class, custom sound system like the PFA, where I saw it tonight... Weerasethakul's whole vibe of course plays a little better in theaters, but as zedz said, this one's no different from his others in that regard, and I've seen and enjoyed plenty of his and similar movies at home.

If these release shenanigans were at Weerasethakul's instigation, I'm less annoyed by it, since hopping between the gallery installation and theatrical experience has been his thing for a while now, and this turns it, essentially, into a traveling museum exhibit. I'm not a fan, as it still feels more than a smidge gimmicky and elitist in a way that is completely unnecessary now, but it's at least more understandable. Since I haven't seen any indication of that, though, and it seems like they'd surely mention it if Joe were totally on board, this just feels like Neon being boneheaded and gimmicky.

But if they don't give it a UHD with the credited Atmos mix, they can shove any "we just care about the quality of the experience" arguments.

[senseabove]

And as for the movie itself, I liked it—it's nebulous and expansive in a way that's entirely AW's, and the multi-nationality of it is an interesting development. He's of course never been shy of inferring/invoking politics and history, but this one feels so much more theoretical in a way I'm having a hard time grasping, as if dealing with another country's history allows him to approach these concerns more abstractly, but in a way that doesn't abstract their subject. (Notably, the credits are entirely in Spanish.) Swinton is amazing, and it's nice to see her acting like a normal, contemporary human being. Her unvarnished subtlety and ability to turn inward are sublime, and the recording studio scene is a masterclass of reactive gesture, comedic and profound. All that said, the second half is a baffling and, relatively speaking, sudden departure that I found both barely parsable and entrancing. Things make a loose sense, with occasional, salient incongruities, and then things get really weird and you realize they haven't actually made sense for a while. Perhaps that's another aspect of the internationality of it, though: to a certain extent, I'd always assumed there were angles and elements I was missing due to my foreignness, but this isn't AW's culture either, so where it drifts to feels somehow both more understandable and even more unclear. I was a bit mixed on the way out of the theater, because I have just so may questions about the back half, but as it's marinating, I'm getting more and more eager to see it again.

[Omensetter]

The fact that they are deciding to do this in the middle of a pandemic is enough for me to just not see any Neon films at the theater period.

+1

I was looking forward to Memoria, Spencer, and The Worst Person in the World, but this is more than a little gross for me. My life will be fine.

[therewillbeblus]

Why would one cut themself off to art, and deprive the artists themselves of revenue via financial support (which in turn affects their probability of having future projects endorsed), because of spite against the distributor? Seems like if this is an ethical concern there's some unfair consequences against innocent parties that makes a boycott itself a borderline unethical stance

[Glowingwabbit]

Why would one cut themself off to art, and deprive the artists themselves of revenue via financial support (which in turn affects their probability of having future projects endorsed), because of spite against the distributor? Seems like if this is an ethical concern there's some unfair consequences against innocent parties that makes a boycott itself a borderline unethical stance

I'm not cutting myself off to art. Literally thousands of other films on my watchlist. I'll never get to everything I want to see in my lifetime. My personal choice of not going to see any NEON films in theaters isn't going to be felt by them or the artists. I made a comment here which is not at all the same as rallying a boycott (I'm not going to tell others not to or try to sway them not to).

[therewillbeblus]

Sorry Glowingwabbit, I was not responding to your post specifically. Not suggesting one is "rallying" a boycott either, but a personal choice to boycott a studio/company, while of course anyone's right to do, has always felt like a honed-in focus on one triggering element that has consequences on others not accounted for, or consciously prioritized. You're right that one person not buying a ticket isn't going to directly affect the artist, though that feels synonymous with the framework of the "my vote doesn't matter, since it's just one vote" slope. We also talk a lot on this forum about buying a release to help support that company releasing more films by X, but could use the same logic there to deflate that strategy as pointless. All I'm saying is that considering the other players outside of the studio itself when making these decisions is probably worthwhile when framing a personal boundary as one around ethics, but I was raising the question earnestly (perhaps I'm wrong that this isn't a choice based on ethics that has other consequential ethical implications?) because this kind of choice is one I've never understood and would love to understand more.

[Glowingwabbit]

Sorry Glowingwabbit, I was not responding to your post specifically. Not suggesting one is "rallying" a boycott either, but a personal choice to boycott a studio/company, while of course anyone's right to do, has always felt like a honed-in focus on one triggering element that has consequences on others not accounted for, or consciously prioritized. You're right that one person not buying a ticket isn't going to directly affect the artist, though that feels synonymous with the framework of the "my vote doesn't matter, since it's just one vote" slope. We also talk a lot on this forum about buying a release to help support that company releasing more films by X, but could use the same logic there to deflate that strategy as pointless. All I'm saying is that considering the other players outside of the studio itself when making these decisions is probably worthwhile when framing a personal boundary as one around ethics, but I was raising the question earnestly (perhaps I'm wrong that this isn't a choice based on ethics that has other consequential ethical implications?) because this kind of choice is one I've never understood and would love to understand more.

I knew you weren't responding to my post specifically (or attacking anyone), but I wanted to emphasize that it was just a personal decision by responding in that way. There are going to be ethical consequences and implications to just about any decision one makes but for me that doesn't even come into the decision when I say I'm not seeing NEON films in theaters (I'll still watch them eventually, streaming or on home video). I'm already keeping my visits to the theater very limited given that I use public transportation to get to places like Coolidge or The Brattle which also adds commute time and expenses so I always have to question if a film is worth that time and money (but now add the potential of covid). I'm also just not as interested (as others are) in staying up on contemporary films (the HBOMax model has actually led me to see more current films than I generally would in a year). If people stopped making new films, I'd still never get to all the titles I want to see. So I couldn't even say I'd actually have gone to any NEON films in 2021 anyway. I just know now I'm definitely going to just wait on those titles, like the new Weerasethakul (I'm also annoyed that now I'll definitely have to pirate or import his film since NEON isn't even giving an alternative to theater).

edit: The "my vote doesn't matter, since it's just one vote" example is interesting since I also live in MA, because when it comes to the general election, my vote really doesn't make a difference no matter how many times people try to spin it.

[therewillbeblus]

Thanks for the thoughtful response- FYI, I imagine you’re aware, but four NEON films are showing at The Brattle for the upcoming festival in two weeks, if that affects your decision to rationalize support for the festival/independent theatre and also save money by posting up for a day in Hvd Sq instead of making multiple trips!

[hearthesilence]

SpoilerShow

Aside from the fact that, in a theater, they'll have properly leveled the sound beforehand so the dynamic range has the intended effect,

I don't think there's anything in this movie that a half-way decent home theater set-up couldn't handle just fine?

I'd use spoilers as I'd recommend others to go in without knowing anything.

But yes, I imagine certain people have outstanding home set-ups, but most people I know IRL who'd go to a films like this actually do not, and it's not a stretch to see them having a fairly diminished experience. Even a "half-way" decent setup wouldn't be the same, and that goes beyond the gear playing the film.

I will say that as the days pass, casting a European actor in this film makes more sense to me given the historical context. (Granted I don't know of any direct history between Scotland and Colombia, but in a broader sense it works.)

[Glowingwabbit]

Thanks for the thoughtful response- FYI, I imagine you’re aware, but four NEON films are showing at The Brattle for the upcoming festival in two weeks, if that affects your decision to rationalize support for the festival/independent theatre and also save money by posting up for a day in Hvd Sq instead of making multiple trips!

Since I live in Salem, my rationale was actually to get the hell out of town for the end of October so I won't be around to even make a decision about the fall festival (which I've certainly supported in the past and will again in the future). I don't think they are doing any virtual screenings for it this time.