Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

[knives]

I imagine they’re bringing it up at least in part because of Gunn’s own prominence in Troma’s history.

[Never Cursed]

Well I was in the middle of The Young Pope, but I suppose I could always put my HBO Max sub to a different use...

[J Wilson]

The recent Harley Quinn animated series is extremely violent as well (like one character getting a broken bat handle jammed through their head, in close-up), so it sounds like they're going for what they expect fans want from the character.

[domino harvey]

My understanding is that she graphically kills someone in this film in the style of Xenia Onatopp, so I guess that's someone's idea of female empowerment

[Pavel]

I don't think most forum members will like it, but I saw it with a friend and we both had a lot of fun. It's the most comic book-y comic book movie in that usually most comics aren't expected to keep a level of groundedness (be it with the characters' abilities, villains they have to defeat, etc). The cast is really wonderful — Stallone is my favorite, but Daniela Melchior leaves a strong enough impression that I was immediately compelled to google her and Idris Elba is an excellent (semi-)leading man and this, oddly enough, might convince the naysayers that he'd be a great Bond. The film is generally pleasantly shot and edited. Most superhero films don't take themselves too seriously, so it wouldn't be a novel compliment to say that for this, but The Suicide Squad does it in a more fun way. Most of the jokes land and the violence isn't annoyingly stylized — it's comically gory but that mostly helps the tone and the comic-y vibe (Harley kills a lot of people graphically, but I wouldn't compare it to Xenia Onatopp). The pre-credits sequence was honestly sort of surprising to me. Gunn really loves to finish sentences by spelling them out with stuff like smoke or branches. I dunno, I liked it

[brundlefly]

Gunn's good at investing in his characters, even the cast-offs have some sort of pathetic sympathy, so there's at least a solid foundation. This is gleefully gross; the gore can be elaborate and is often deployed as slapstick, but it's also heavy on ooze and vermin and the like. (It's not as if Gunn needs to lean on the Harley Quinn animated series -- which is a joy, a gift -- for grossness. The guy made Slither.) There's a political angle about ugly American imperialists and developing nations (a character positively and defensively describes the main city as belonging to the rats, and even if that's where Gunn's rooting interests lie it's.. not the most savory metaphor?), but it seems half-thought through and addressed when convenient.

SpoilerShow

(After a bunch of soldiers are executed in a game-like way, the reveal that they were a populist revolutionary army is meant to land as a guilty laugh.)

It's serviceable as entertainment, whether it should be or not, though I don't think either its set pieces or jokes have a great hit/miss ratio. Hits some crutches enough -- Harley's cartoon-colored explosion of an escape may be an expression of the character, but Gunn reaches for that candy palette twice more (for the Kaiju, and the "New Dumb Friends") -- that it feels like he's desperate for inspiration. Or that it's a knock-off, rather than a different angle on, Gunn's Guardians films. As Dastmalchian feels like a knock-off Tony Hale, or Kinnaman feels like a beefed-up, de-aged Nathan Fillion. And Stallone's here because the other franchise has Vin Diesel. The Suicide Squad is meant to be messy, but it's also sloppy. The first Guardians was a win, and there's some beauty in those two films. But it would be nice if Gunn went and made something completely different very soon.

As far as Troma goes, the credits do mention a clip from The Toxic Avenger... and also something from The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library.

[wattsup32]

In the spirit of D.C. films, this was terrible. But, unlike previous D.C. films, this was a lot of fun along the way. There are some fun attempts at using the medium to make it something like a comic-book. Gunn pays more than serviceable homage to Edgar Wright and Scott Pilgrim. Any good you experience here is Gunn effectively polishing the turds the source material saddled him with. Most every actor is game to help Gunn make the best of it and so it's a good time despite being, and it can't be overstated, terrible.

[therewillbeblus]

This was mostly fun as self-aware comic book camp, starting off strong as the narrative is comically rushed along sans conscientious introductions to character or plot. It’s a nice fit for Gunn who’s done this before, and for someone like me who frequently finds comic book movies irritating when they strive for sincerity, this worked better than most- right alongside the two Deadpool films as far as no-strings ironic-humor entertainment goes (well, the first two-thirds). This is basically the opposite of Justice League: The Snyder Cut, which aimed for sincerity and succeeded purely for aesthetic reasons related to film grammar and meditative editing to reflect Snyder's pathos, as opposed to the thematic and narrative enlightenment of the good Batmans, all of which earn their earnest objectives in good faith for their respective own reasons.

I’m fine with masturbatory self-reflexivity as long as it’s transparent about what it’s doing without apology, and doesn't simultaneously make sneaky attempts to transcend the bombastic inanity to become Deep or Art. So the initial blunt immorality on the part of the U.S. govt triumphs by exploiting the structural stupidity of the dramatic stakes in these narrative setups, not because of any thematic a-ha! moment. The mismatched group dynamics are emphasized beyond the silly banter of Guardians of the Galaxy, which tried to have its cake and eat it too (somewhat successfully), by just accentuating the ridiculousness with dark gags and without any shred of intimate attachment between principals- or at least not much.. The film loses its superficial steam during the few attempts it takes in its first two acts to be weighty, but thankfully these are short-lived and barely register, including several throughlines that intentionally peter out before they could dwell in saturated gravity.

Then the film caves in on itself as the final mission kicks off, at first egregiously stalling on some moments of morality and growth before becoming "about" that entirely. The previous jabs at characterization and group dynamics are transformatively treated with careful attention, and even the U.S. govt political immorality can no longer go without didactic actionable scrutiny. Simply put, Gunn goes to great lengths to tell us he's the Fun Guy and that his film is going to be different In Big Ways, and then pulls the rug out from under us by undermining what was ostensibly the film's ethos to deliver dramatic fanfare. It's a dirty trick, disingenuous to the audience, and even worse, incredibly condescending. I read the progress of this film as Gunn throwing what we want in our faces with giant winks saying he's in our corner, and then sitting us down and telling us "I know what you really want, you want arcs, so fine, here you go," as if we are incapable of just enjoying the first kind of movie, when perhaps he's just incapable of resisting the temptation to default into formulaic banality.

So we get a loooong final act (back half?) when the Plot kicks in with unnecessary and incongruous unwelcome pivots in tone toward self-seriousness. If this movie was a lean 90 minutes and avoided these 'arcs', it could have joined the fellowship of Robert Rodriguez' wilder satirical exploitation works, but it doesn't. Does the film even deserve a merit badge for its ethical irreverence when it’s discredited as a facade? Maybe. I was still happy to sit back and watch a superhero film that takes itself 'less' seriously than usual, so yes, it's better than most DC/Marvel comic book movies even if it's also compromised and patronizing. And while some jokes are weak and lame attempts at humor (especially a nudging 'hey I'm conscious of what I'm doing so it's both okay and funny' replacement of one loud commanding black leader for another, and a few other punchlines trying really, really hard), plenty also work. If you had told me that I’d be laughing harder at Idris Elba and John Cena’s early banter than most other comic antics in the summer movie season of post-lockdown, I'd have called you crazy, but it's been a crazy year+ and here we are.

[knives]

The Suicide Squad is getting some embarrassingly effusive praise elsewhere from comic fanboys (I've now seen countless proclamations that is the best comic book movie ever made... which means precious little, but still). Anyone here see it who can give a presumably more measured take?

Just finished it. I imagine you could enjoy it as a well done piece of juvenilia. It’s not perfect balancing too much on its plate leaving a lot of themes ethereal or implicitly dealt with, such as with the whole character of Starro who has tons of unexplored pathos, and the biggest problem being how the film feels saddled with Harley who feels imposed on the film and stars in its lone bad scene. Her role in the film is superseded by Ratcatcher 2 who is the best part of the whole film and the real lead in a sense.

During Harley’s said scene I started to think of how more than any other film this has the closest affinity to Inglourious Basterds. Both the good and the bad here are in perfect sync with the Tarantino although I preferred this film significantly due to being less off put by the themes. That film similarly found a better vehicle for its ideas, but due to commercial considerations also kept its more marketable elements despite them severely dragging the whole film down.

That complaint aside, along with a general expression of preference to the second GoG film, I will say this is a good movie. It’s easily the best cinematic performance of Elba who does a truly incredible job. Really the biggest thing going for the film is the casting and quality of the characterization. It would be easier to say which characters don’t die, sometimes the second they appear on screen, so it’s quite impressive that most of the characters are memorable and give a sense of being lived in.