Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

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greggster59
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#226 Post by greggster59 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:24 pm

#142 was a 50th Anniversary reissue. If I remember correctly it was a new transfer and had some new supplements

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ianthemovie
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#227 Post by ianthemovie » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:14 pm

In a Zoom lecture tonight Jonathan Rosenbaum mentioned that he is planning to record a commentary track on Citizen Kane with James Naremore. He didn't specify whether it was for Criterion, but it's worth noting that they both recorded a joint commentary for Criterion's version of Magnificent Ambersons.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#228 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:50 pm

Perhaps in time for a November release

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#229 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:00 pm

Just in time for milestone spine 1100

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hearthesilence
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#230 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:29 pm

Would be a perfect inaugural UHD release. I'm not being entirely facetious, the stock BD already looks great, so having a UHD option would be a very helpful selling point. Regardless, if it's a Criterion release I'm sure the extras will be better this time around - the crappy HBO movie and even crappier American Experience documentary piled on to the other one actually took the entire package down a few notches.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#231 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 am

Also, they could attach The Eyes of Orson Welles to the release. They’ve been sitting on it for a while. I’m not a fan of the Cousins’ film but it would give the CC release an added curiosity

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#232 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am

Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#233 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:23 am

yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am
Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.
I wouldn't think they would do that either, but if physical media continues to be less of a concern for them, I can see how they'd be open to letting it go to Criterion under the right deal. I'm not sure if it's analogous, but I remember when Sony Music licensed off the Miles Davis and Bob Dylan catalog to an audiophile label, for both vinyl and the format they recently pioneered SACD - it was already difficult to license anything from them for reissue, and it even made more logical sense for them not to even though sales in physical media had already begun to decline.

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swo17
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#234 Post by swo17 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:32 am

Watch Criterion release a deluxe Blu-ray and Warner put out a UHD

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#235 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:22 am

yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am
Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.
As I posted several years back, a reliable source told me that Criterion did acquire Citizen Kane. It was around the time that CC gave us Magnificent Ambersons clue from the Newsletter. The source also said Journey Into Fear as well.

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ianthemovie
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#236 Post by ianthemovie » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:23 am

yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am
Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.
I believe there was a member of the forum, I can't remember which, who claimed to have inside knowledge that it was coming from Criterion, but that was some years ago, and I can't recall any other confirmation in the meantime. And there's still a chance that it won't happen. But I also have a hard time believing that WB would commission a scholarly commentary track by the likes of Naremore and Rosenbaum, especially when Roger Ebert's highly accessible commentary track (arguably one of the best ever recorded, to be fair) already exists.

EDIT: Thanks, Frau Blucher, for confirming that!

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dwk
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#237 Post by dwk » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:35 am

swo17 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:32 am
Watch Criterion release a deluxe Blu-ray and Warner put out a UHD
Since WB doesn't license UHD rights, this is most likely going to be what happens.

beamish14
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#238 Post by beamish14 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:55 am

hearthesilence wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:29 pm
Would be a perfect inaugural UHD release. I'm not being entirely facetious, the stock BD already looks great, so having a UHD option would be a very helpful selling point. Regardless, if it's a Criterion release I'm sure the extras will be better this time around - the crappy HBO movie and even crappier American Experience documentary piled on to the other one actually took the entire package down a few notches.

Oh, god, don't even remind me about RKO 281 or Tim Robbins' The Cradle Will Rock

Call me crazy, but I'd actually be interested in hearing a commentary that has Welles' daughters on it. I'd be interested to hear their first-hand knowledge of what their father said about the film.

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Drucker
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#239 Post by Drucker » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:02 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:55 am
hearthesilence wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:29 pm
Would be a perfect inaugural UHD release. I'm not being entirely facetious, the stock BD already looks great, so having a UHD option would be a very helpful selling point. Regardless, if it's a Criterion release I'm sure the extras will be better this time around - the crappy HBO movie and even crappier American Experience documentary piled on to the other one actually took the entire package down a few notches.

Oh, god, don't even remind me about RKO 281 or Tim Robbins' The Cradle Will Rock

Call me crazy, but I'd actually be interested in hearing a commentary that has Welles' daughters on it. I'd be interested to hear their first-hand knowledge of what their father said about the film.
At a Q&A a few years ago, I asked one of his daughters about her father's reaction to Kane being named the greatest film of all time. She said her father's response was, "I've made way better films since then."

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#240 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:12 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:22 am
yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am
Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.
As I posted several years back, a reliable source told me that Criterion did acquire Citizen Kane. It was around the time that CC gave us Magnificent Ambersons clue from the Newsletter. The source also said Journey Into Fear as well.
Thank you for confirming that! It seems that Criterion now has the rights to Citizen Kane, Journey Into Fear, The Other Side of the Wind (presumably they also have the rights to Morgan Neville's documentary), and It's All True, alongside The Eyes of Orson Welles.

beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#241 Post by beamish14 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:20 pm

yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:12 pm
FrauBlucher wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:22 am
yoloswegmaster wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:11 am
Was it ever confirmed that Criterion has the rights to this? I know that the 2 companies have a close relationship but I can't imagine Warner Bros would be ok with letting the rights go to one of their biggest titles ever.
As I posted several years back, a reliable source told me that Criterion did acquire Citizen Kane. It was around the time that CC gave us Magnificent Ambersons clue from the Newsletter. The source also said Journey Into Fear as well.
Thank you for confirming that! It seems that Criterion now has the rights to Citizen Kane, Journey Into Fear, The Other Side of the Wind (presumably they also have the rights to Morgan Neville's documentary), and It's All True, alongside The Eyes of Orson Welles.

It's All True is in a tricky place, as there is so much unused material still sitting in UCLA's archives. I'm sure the makers of the documentary would want another pass at it, but restoring and properly ensuring the longterm viability of that footage is a very expensive proposition. Catherine Benamou's book on it has some interesting information I haven't encountered before.

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PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#242 Post by PfR73 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:41 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:55 am
Oh, god, don't even remind me about RKO 281 or Tim Robbins' The Cradle Will Rock
I watched Cradle Will Rock [no "The", BTW] for the first time about a month or so ago and it's maybe my favorite movie seen so far this year. It's way more Altman-influenced than Welles, though, and with Altman being my favorite director that's a very positive thing IMO.

I also watched RKO 281 and I will agree that one wasn't very interesting.

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domino harvey
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#243 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:52 pm

Cradle Will Rock is terrific, I don’t get the swipe either. Uber energetic and fun show offy directing by Robbins. Kinda dreamily left wing, but it works

beamish14
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#244 Post by beamish14 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:57 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:52 pm
Cradle Will Rock is terrific, I don’t get the swipe either. Uber energetic and fun show offy directing by Robbins. Kinda dreamily left wing, but it works

The swipe wasn't really so much at the film as its characterization of Welles (which I liked more in Linklater's underrated Me and Orson Welles). But then, I haven't seen it in decades, and perhaps my recollection of it is quite off.

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Ribs
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#245 Post by Ribs » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:02 pm

dwk wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:35 am
swo17 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:32 am
Watch Criterion release a deluxe Blu-ray and Warner put out a UHD
Since WB doesn't license UHD rights, this is most likely going to be what happens.
This is not true - they have not included UHD rights on their extant deals, which MGM has (that, for example, Kino could theoretically upgrade a bunch of their MGM titles without cutting a new deal). But Kino and Arrow don’t have WB deals - Shout and Criterion do, and thus far neither has shown any interest in releasing anything in 4K (in Shout’s case, that doesn’t already have an extant international release reducing their overhead). So we don’t really have anything to say they don’t license UHD rights because in all likelihood the only partners they would discuss them with have been slow to enter the fold.

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dwk
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#246 Post by dwk » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:28 pm

When asked about their Friday the 13th box being Blu-ray only, Scream said that neither would license UHD rights.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#247 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:31 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:55 am
Oh, god, don't even remind me about RKO 281 or Tim Robbins' The Cradle Will Rock
Joseph McBride made the excellent point that whenever Welles has been portrayed in film, it's typically a terrible portrayal in a not-so-good film. I actually like Ed Wood but even its otherwise entertaining tribute is marred by the fact that it gets everything wrong about Welles. (Heston playing a Mexican wasn't forced on him - Welles himself changed the locale to the Mexican border and made Heston's character a Mexican - and as Drucker already pointed out, he believed he did better films after Citizen Kane). Richard Linklater and Christian McKay are probably the only ones who came up with an excellent portrayal of him in Me and Orson Welles.

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knives
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#248 Post by knives » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:42 pm

To be fair to Ed Wood the scene, and film at large, are clearly intended to be imagined to relay to us the experience of being Ed Wood. What matters for that scene is how Wood feels about Welles and nothing historic.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#249 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:55 pm

knives wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:42 pm
To be fair to Ed Wood the scene, and film at large, are clearly intended to be imagined to relay to us the experience of being Ed Wood. What matters for that scene is how Wood feels about Welles and nothing historic.
Yeah, the whole thing's like a sweet little fantasy, even with the darker and tragic elements (like Bela Lugosi and Wood's bad break-up with Dolores Fuller), but I wish they were a little less sloppy or lazy about the details in that scene - doing so wouldn't compromise the tone.

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knives
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Re: Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

#250 Post by knives » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:18 pm

I’m saying they’re not being lazy nor sloppy. To adhere to historical facts in that scene, which never happened in real life to begin with, if anything would be sloppy as the thematic pull and joke is this idea,iced version of Welles that Wood sees as himself
.

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