200 Irréversible

Discuss releases by Indicator and the films on them.

Moderator: MichaelB

Message
Author
User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#51 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:19 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:41 am
The Straight Cut is 8 minutes shorter. Still 90 minutes too long.
Your antipathy towards the film has already been noted, as has the fact that this is the third post that you've made (across two platforms) that's slagging off this specific release.

If you're tempted to carry on in a similar vein, might I suggest pausing momentarily to reflect upon the fact that this particular title is highly likely to end up subsidising riskier releases that may be more to your personal taste?

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 200 Irréversible

#52 Post by swo17 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:30 pm

To add something constructive to the conversation, I will say that I recently watched his wife's La Bouche de Jean-Pierre, which Noé shot, and found it quite affecting

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: 200 Irréversible

#53 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:51 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:30 pm
To add something constructive to the conversation, I will say that I recently watched his wife's La Bouche de Jean-Pierre, which Noé shot, and found it quite affecting
Still 90 affectings too long.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 200 Irréversible

#54 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:19 pm

I assume that chronological cut is probably cutting out all of the swirling camera stuff linking between the backwards-proceeding scenes (but of course the virtuoso camera swirling should be the film's raison d'être!), but at the same time I am not sure that re-ordering the film in the style of that feature on Christopher Nolan's Memento would really end up doing that much to the narrative. Despite being told backwards (and being the only Gaspar Noé film where it is entirely appropriate to have the end credits at the beginning, unlike the films which followed! [-( =; ), its really a fulcrum-point film, spinning on its axis around the central tunnel sequence the way that the camera itself spins off into the cosmos and another spiral galaxy at the end.

I do rather prefer the original French title for the "Straight Cut" though: the "Inversion Intégrale"!

That actually reminds me of a point that I did not really fully make earlier in the thread when talking about the lack of a Bangalter score causing something like Enter The Void to become even baggier with only the ethereal drones to tame it, but one of the bigger 'issues' (though its Noé's characteristic stylistic trait) also relates to the camerawork that began with Irreversible (Seul Contre Tous in contrast is, as far as I remember, all locked off shots with sudden camera moves and cuts in between punctuated by a bang similar to the music cue in Godard's Masculin Feminin!) and really reaches its apex with Enter The Void. Where the sheer logistics of getting the camera out of one scene and into the next without any obvious cuts (eventually zooming back and forth across the city in Enter The Void) takes up the bulk of the running time of the film and ends up providing a lot more of the 'thrills' than the actual narrative itself in some ways. Its kind of a form of 'traversal cinema' more than anything else.

That's what makes the moments when camerawork gets arrested by the narrative so powerful in Noé's films, with the central assault sequence in Irreversible probably the most (in)famous example, where the camera itself suddenly gets pinned down in sympathy too, unable to do anything but observe the unfolding scene.

I like the extras but I would be curious whether the publicity materials section would have the music videos that took place in the film's locations in which the camera gets even more unleashed to prowl the environments. The one for Stress especially, but there's also one for Outrage too.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:39 pm, edited 8 times in total.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 200 Irréversible

#55 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:58 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:30 pm
To add something constructive to the conversation, I will say that I recently watched his wife's La Bouche de Jean-Pierre, which Noé shot, and found it quite affecting
She's 1:1 with Innocence for me, so I'll take that rec to heart!

Noe certainly has talent, and I'm with mfunk in finding Enter the Void to be an incredibly audacious vision executed against impossible odds (the DMT trip visuals sparked a "I didn't think you could even do that" reaction when I first watched it in college), though it's probably the only film I really like of his that I've seen. I should really give Irreversible another shot one of these days- it was poorly colored in for me from a bunch of bros I lived next to briefly in college liking it for all the wrong reasons, and only later did the confusion really sink in how this crew who idolized Boondock Saints as the "best movie ever made" also found similar love for this arthouse film. I'd like to be more charitable to the film's merits- and do remember liking some moments, including the very impressive face-smash trick- but I don't know if I can bring myself to watch that ten minute sequence again.

Anyways, I'm always grateful for releases like this paving the way for "riskier" titles, as Michael points out, and Indicator has really demonstrated an unpredictability to what they'll release compared to other labels, so I'd like to believe this first non-English language release doesn't indicate any trend toward the perverse so much as open more doors for surprises.

User avatar
CSM126
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 am
Location: The Room
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#56 Post by CSM126 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:03 pm

I make no bones about disliking this film, but if it really is as popular as Indicator expect… hey, we’ll get some more obscure and worthwhile stuff down the line. I can’t imagine being as obnoxious about a label releasing a film as some people are. Or, rather, I can but only when I was a teenager who thought hating everything was edgy.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 200 Irréversible

#57 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:07 pm

I have a feeling that this would be kind of the perfect time to release the film on home video in the UK. Just a couple of months ago Film4 showed Climax on UK television, which is the first time that any of Noé's films have ever aired on free-to-view TV (Carne and Seul Contre Tous appeared on Film4 in 2000 but that was when it was a monthly pay subscription channel), and with the early 2000s Tartan Video DVD release of Irreversible probably long out of print it might be time to captivate and appall a whole new audience coming to his films fresh. Who knows, maybe it might inspire a Guardian article or two?

I don't think that Enter The Void has ever received a UK video release of any kind, whether in its long or short version (though it got a cinema release and classic Mark Kermode rant about it!), although I stopped looking after importing the US Blu-ray back in the day. So at the moment until this release Noé is only represented on purchasable disc format in the UK by Love (from Artificial Eye) and Climax (from Arrow). Oh, and his short in that Destricted anthology film.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 200 Irréversible

#58 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:30 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:58 pm
I'd like to be more charitable to the film's merits- and do remember liking some moments, including the very impressive face-smash trick- but I don't know if I can bring myself to watch that ten minute sequence again.
One of the more bizarre moments I had watching a film in recent years was when Bruce Willis in Surrogates basically homages the Irreversible scene, beating one of his wife's shallow friends (that she is implied to be having an affair with) and whom she has brought around to a dinner party's head to pieces in a fit of impotent rage whilst the chap remains lying on the floor laughing. But its (relatively) OK in this film because its just a surrogate robotic body being destroyed. I think having that moment occur inside a Hollywood film despite all the mitigating factors was perhaps more disturbing than seeing it in Irreversible itself!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rapta
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
Location: Hants, UK

Re: 200 Irréversible

#59 Post by rapta » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:44 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:30 pm
To add something constructive to the conversation, I will say that I recently watched his wife's La Bouche de Jean-Pierre, which Noé shot, and found it quite affecting
Whereas I'm hesitant to watch basically any Noé film, I would promptly blind-buy any Hadžihalilović film.

PS: just remembered her new film was co-produced by ANTI-WORLDS.
Last edited by rapta on Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#60 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm

I still need to catch up with the post-Irréversible stuff, although I duly bought copies on original release. In fact, now that I can play 3-D films as a by-product of having to QC The Mad Magician, I should see how Love comes across in the format.

jlnight
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:49 am

Re: 200 Irréversible

#61 Post by jlnight » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:30 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:07 pm
I don't think that Enter The Void has ever received a UK video release of any kind, whether in its long or short version
Are you sure? I am pretty certain that I've seen the DVD adorning the shelves of CeX on a few occasions. I've never seen Void or Love but I have seen the others including Climax when it was on Film4 (did you spot the Artificial Eye VHS of The Mother and The Whore during the audition interviews?) and Carne and Seul Contre Tous when they played on the subscription-era Film4 (ironically they were broadcast on one of their 'free weekends' when the channel was unscrambled for about three days on Sky). Kermode's Extreme Cinema intro is online in the usual place.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#62 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:35 pm

It certainly has a BBFC video certificate, but I dimly recall that it was DVD only - I ended up buying it on iTunes as it was the only way of getting it in better than standard definition without importing a Blu-ray.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 200 Irréversible

#63 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:58 pm

That would make sense jlnight. And you are right its here on Amazon selling at £44.99 used, £79.99 new (much more than the £23.22 that the US imported Blu-ray is going for and the £8.95 that the German DVD is selling for, which Amazon is overriding the listings to promote over the UK disc if you just search for the title) and was released by Entertainment One. I remember bypassing any UK release immediately once I could be certain that the US Blu-ray from IFC was going to be the 161-minute version, and never looked back. If it was DVD only in this country it turned out to be the best move.

(Although honestly the best version of Enter The Void is the BUF special effects reel version (NSFW)!)
MichaelB wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm
I still need to catch up with the post-Irréversible stuff, although I duly bought copies on original release. In fact, now that I can play 3-D films as a by-product of having to QC The Mad Magician, I should see how Love comes across in the format.
The most interesting thing about Love (which was a relief after Enter The Void pushed things to the ultimate extreme) is how calm and precise the camerawork is. I wonder if it was due to the 3D process preventing wild and unruly movements but a lot of the action in Love takes place in tableau shots or long drifting camera moves, or inside rooms looking out to some action occurring beyond the door or window frame. I have only watched the 2D version but even in that format there were lots of shots of the characters posed in front of backdrops, or the main character standing in doorways, or almost floating suspended above his bedsheets, that I could see adding a very layered feeling in a 3D presentation.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:04 am, edited 7 times in total.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 200 Irréversible

#64 Post by swo17 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:03 pm

I have two stupid comments to make:

1. How is it possible for there to be a straight cut? I thought this film was supposed to be [camera zooms in, recites titular line]

2. I hope Indicator realizes that this decision to release a foreign language film is...something they can't go back on


Also, how hard would it have been to pick a spine number that's a palindrome? Sorry, that was three stupid comments

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#65 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:08 pm

Interestingly, that's true of the year in which it was first released - 2002.

And my wife's birthday that year was on 20/02/2002, at least in a part of the world that uses a logical day/month/year arrangement.

kubelkind
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: 200 Irréversible

#66 Post by kubelkind » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:20 pm

jlnight wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:30 pm
did you spot the Artificial Eye VHS of The Mother and The Whore during the audition interviews?
I remember seeing that when I saw "Climax" at the cinema. I also remember thinking, about 30 minutes in, "couldn't we have watched that instead?"... :D

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 200 Irréversible

#67 Post by knives » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:25 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:08 pm
Interestingly, that's true of the year in which it was first released - 2002.

And my wife's birthday that year was on 20/02/2002, at least in a part of the world that uses a logical day/month/year arrangement.
To defend America at least here in speech we say Feb. 20th and not 20th of Feb. which is the logic behind the month, day, year format.

User avatar
senseabove
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: 200 Irréversible

#68 Post by senseabove » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:35 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:03 pm
2. I hope Indicator realizes that this decision to release a foreign language film is...something they can't go back on
I'm strangely encouraged by how repeatedly unacknowledged this question is here and elsewhere...

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 200 Irréversible

#69 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:01 pm

It's definitely encouraging, but to me it means that Indicator's eclectic palette is only going to become more unpredictable than it already is. Not a bad thing by any means, but also not supporting any direct answer to such a question

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#70 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 pm

It's not actually that extreme an outlier. It's only one year later than the previous most recent film in the catalogue (and there are now 13 post-1990 films), it's not the first film to be made by a non-British European filmmaker and set entirely in mainland Europe (Michelangelo Antonioni, Jiří Weiss), it's not the first in a foreign language (Třicet jedna ve stínu, the Czech counterpart to 90˚ in the Shade made with entirely different takes), it's not the first with a much-respected national-treasure actress performing in moderately graphic sex scenes (Helen Mirren in Hussy), and it's not even the first to feature an exceptionally nasty scene of sexualised violence (Satan's Slave). So to my mind the only real "first" is that it's the first Indicator release that's solely in a foreign language, but otherwise it fits better than you might initially think.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 200 Irréversible

#71 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 pm

I mean, I don’t think anyone was calling it a first for any of the reasons except for the one you admit it actually is, so

User avatar
senseabove
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: 200 Irréversible

#72 Post by senseabove » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:37 pm

Yeah, being solely in a foreign language is definitely the salient point, given the general perception/assumption that Indicator was committed to (mostly) English-language films. And per your own description, the only other fully non-English example was "a happy accident" included due to the label's typical all-inclusive style, which doesn't seem like it would be worth mentioning as such except that it was perceived as unusual in some way:
MichaelB wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:36 am
90˚ in the Shade was a happy accident - Powerhouse licensed the English-language version under the impression that that was the only version, but when research into the production history determined that there was not only a Czech version but it was made up of different takes, that was obviously worth adding.
I'm certainly happy to see y'all break the "rule," whether it was ever established internally, publicly stated, or just all in our heads. And to that point, I can't seem to find any mention from you of that rule being a rule, but a quick search of the speculation thread turns up lots of people mentioning it, so I have to imagine it was stated a little more clearly somewhere...

User avatar
EddieLarkin
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am

Re: 200 Irréversible

#73 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:42 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:58 pm
That would make sense jlnight. And you are right its here on Amazon selling at £44.99 used, £79.99 new (much more than the £23.22 that the US imported Blu-ray is going for and the £8.95 that the German DVD is selling for, which Amazon is overriding the listings to promote over the UK disc if you just search for the title) and was released by Entertainment One. I remember bypassing any UK release immediately once I could be certain that the US Blu-ray from IFC was going to be the 161-minute version, and never looked back. If it was DVD only in this country it turned out to be the best move.
It was released in Germany on Blu-ray as well: here. Less than a tenner to the UK, and it's the longer version, so a better option for those interested than the US version.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 200 Irréversible

#74 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:45 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 pm
I mean, I don’t think anyone was calling it a first for any of the reasons except for the one you admit it actually is, so
In which case you're presumably no longer worried about Indicator "diluting their brand", which is good to know. (They're very much not.)

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 200 Irréversible

#75 Post by swo17 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm

Broken record: Please use the mad money this brings to fund boxes of Deville, Chabrol, Ruiz, and Mouret

Post Reply