Hollywood (Kevin Brownlow)

Discuss internationally-released DVDs and Blu-rays or other international DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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htdm
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am

#26 Post by htdm » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:05 pm

A poster at DVDForums just posted this:
Contacted Network about that Hollywood set:
Thank you for your enquiry, 'Hollywood' has been withdrawn from the release
schedule due to rights clearance issues. I do not have a revised release
date yet, all i can advise is that you keep checking the Network website in
the 'forthcoming' section for any further updates.
I still haven't received any cancellation notice yet but did notice that there is no longer any mention of the set on Network's site. I thought the copyright issue was over The Jazz Singer and that it had been resolved.

atcolomb
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#27 Post by atcolomb » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:16 pm

I find it strange that Network would announce the DVDs release before they had all the clearance rights issues taken care of..... :?

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HerrSchreck
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#28 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:32 pm

Or CC announce SHANGHAI EXPRESS, or VAMPYR, or EISENSTEIN SILENT YEARS, and so many others. Look at Fox & BOOMERANG.

Oftentimes the best intended biz practices and good faith gentlemanly efforts of due dilligence of I'm-compltely-new-to-you-and-so-therefore-you-should-I'd-imagine-have-no-reason-whatsoever-to-fuck-me-over gets met with a howitzer booming out storms of ill will & pure shit. Every single employee of every single entertainment company feels so completely immersed in--and tortured by-- dishonor, dishing out heartbreak with a few kind sincere words is rote.

atcolomb
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#29 Post by atcolomb » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:53 pm

A good example is A Stairway to Heaven (A Matter of Life and Death) 1946 which was to be released by Columbia on a region 1 dvd and i pre ordered it on Amazon. The release date came and went but was not released and this was over a year ago!! I think the delay is because they want Martin Scorsese's commentary on it but i have not heard any thing new on this.

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godardslave
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#30 Post by godardslave » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:36 pm

this is very disappointing, news. :(

But i guess given the wealth of different clips, hardly surprising. :?
HerrSchreck wrote:gets met with a howitzer booming out storms of ill will & pure shit.
i think this sums up the disappointment i feel pretty well, thanks schrek. Your facility and use of the english language is quite fascinating, have you ever tried poetry?

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#31 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:01 am

godardslave wrote:have you ever tried poetry?
I heard it has a hard crash like C, it leaves you sickly & pale where eating becomes very very difficult. I have tried most of the other drugs though.

Seriously, I appreciate your nice words.

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Ashirg
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#32 Post by Ashirg » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:34 pm

Amazon now lists it with December 4th release date. Is it still being released?

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godardslave
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#33 Post by godardslave » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:28 am

Ashirg wrote:Amazon now lists it with December 4th release date. Is it still being released?
oh, the humanity.

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htdm
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am

#34 Post by htdm » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:04 pm

Just got this email from Amazon.uk:
We wanted to give you an update on the status of your order. We are sorry to report that the release of the following item has been cancelled: "Hollywood - Complete Series"
This item has now been cancelled from your order and we can confirm that
you have not been charged for it.
Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience
caused.
The order was never cancelled the many times Hollywood was pushed back before so this feels somewhat final.

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devlinnn
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#35 Post by devlinnn » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:27 pm

The delay/cancellation may be due to rights, but a friend in semi-regular contact with Kevin Brownlow reports that he was none to impressed with Network's Buster Keaton: A Hard Act to Follow release, and had lost faith/interest in them doing a decent job with the Hollywood series.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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#36 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:13 am

devlinnn wrote:The delay/cancellation may be due to rights, but a friend in semi-regular contact with Kevin Brownlow reports that he was none to impressed with Network's Buster Keaton: A Hard Act to Follow release, and had lost faith/interest in them doing a decent job with the Hollywood series.
MoC to the rescue. Please!!!!

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MichaelB
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#37 Post by MichaelB » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:42 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Every single employee of every single entertainment company feels so completely immersed in--and tortured by-- dishonor, dishing out heartbreak with a few kind sincere words is rote.
The problem is, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Get the release out as quickly as possible, and you're slammed for doing a rush job. Take years of painstakingly meticulous restoration and you're slammed for not releasing it next week.

Pre-release announcements are just as fraught with peril - the distributor usually has to make them well in advance of the actual DVD authoring, and sometimes before every dot and comma of the rights deals has been approved. But if the announcement is too vague, this leads to vast amounts of eager speculation in forums like this and inevitable disappointment when the finished release doesn't quite match up to the absolute and probably unachievable perfection that fans have envisaged in their heads. If they're too specific, and something has to drop out for whatever reason (rights issues, inadequate masters), this leads to equally vehement accusations of promise-breaking.

But 'twas ever thus.

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tryavna
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#38 Post by tryavna » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:40 am

devlinnn wrote:The delay/cancellation may be due to rights, but a friend in semi-regular contact with Kevin Brownlow reports that he was none to impressed with Network's Buster Keaton: A Hard Act to Follow release, and had lost faith/interest in them doing a decent job with the Hollywood series.
Just out of curiosity, Devlinn, do you know what Brownlow particularly disliked about Network's treatment of that title? Admittedly, I don't own many Network DVDs, but I've been reasonably pleased with the two or three I have purchased.

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devlinnn
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#39 Post by devlinnn » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:29 pm

I'm presuming, being the perfectionist he is, that Brownlow would have been saddened with Network not using the original print with all the interviewee identifiers. Although it was said this would be fixed with a later pressing, I wouldn't be holding my breath any longer.

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Rufus T. Firefly
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#40 Post by Rufus T. Firefly » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:05 pm

If it is of any comfort I have occasionally experienced items being cancelled by amazon.co.uk simply because the release date was delayed, not because the items were not being released. They cancelled my order of the 1982 Lohengrin on Euroarts recently, claiming that the release of that item had been cancelled (the same standard message as dmkb received). However it was released a month later and I have it in my possession.

Until we get confirmation from Network that Hollywood is off the schedule don't assume that Amazon is correct.

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htdm
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am

#41 Post by htdm » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:41 pm

While what Rufus T. says/writes is certainly true - the fact that Network yanked from their line up and haven't answered any inquires regarding the delay doesn't seem to bode well for the project. While not trying to belabor the point, at least before, they were very forthcoming about the status of the project including answering questions about the rights problems. Just my two cents.

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godardslave
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#42 Post by godardslave » Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:48 pm

i wonder why this isnt being released in region 1?

after all the VHS came out in the USA.

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#43 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:14 am

devlinnn wrote:I'm presuming, being the perfectionist he is, that Brownlow would have been saddened with Network not using the original print with all the interviewee identifiers. Although it was said this would be fixed with a later pressing, I wouldn't be holding my breath any longer.
I dunno about the perfectionist angle when it comes to discs. He put out analog sourced restoration of THE CHESS PLAYER from a resto that was then approx 13 yrs old at time of Milestone/BFI's disc... had no problem with unpreconverted masters going to Milestone on his restoration of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA resulting in one of the few discs I've seen that actually surpasses the horrible interlaced Image BERLIN disc via it's ghosting problems. Virtually unwatchable. LA TERRE by Antoine is equally unimpressive in it's digital presentation.

He may be a perfectionist when it comes to film restoration, but his handling of the digital home entertainment medium doesn't qualify as perfectionism.

unclehulot
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#44 Post by unclehulot » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:38 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:
I dunno about the perfectionist angle when it comes to discs. He put out analog sourced restoration of THE CHESS PLAYER from a resto that was then approx 13 yrs old at time of Milestone/BFI's disc... had no problem with unpreconverted masters going to Milestone on his restoration of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA resulting in one of the few discs I've seen that actually surpasses the horrible interlaced Image BERLIN disc via it's ghosting problems. Virtually unwatchable. LA TERRE by Antoine is equally unimpressive in it's digital presentation.

He may be a perfectionist when it comes to film restoration, but his handling of the digital home entertainment medium doesn't qualify as perfectionism.
Do you think he really had control over what happened technically with those masters for R1, and what was done with them? Once the probable promises weren't kept as to conversion quality, I doubt he had any recourse or final approval of the said versions.

However, I agree some of those restorations were pretty long in the tooth by the time of release to DVD, but I can't imagine the funds (or Brownlow's interest, perhaps) were there to start from scratch from film materials again.

What I find strange, is why either quality or rights issues could be so thorny on this series. Certainly the clips from the films are in many ways secondary to why the series is so good. And why any of the rights holders would deny clearance on something that could only generate interest in the various films covered, is a mystery. I suppose those problems aren't about actual artistic matters, but laziness or greed, or some other tail wagging the corporate dog.....

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myrnaloyisdope
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Kevin Brownlow

#45 Post by myrnaloyisdope » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:38 pm

Well I just finished watching [Hollywood] last night. I watched all 13 1-episodes in a couple of days, and with good reason. This is an incredible, indispensable, fascinating, and glorious documentary.

For those who don't know, Hollywood is basically the history of silent film in the US. The series follows it from it's beginning to to it's end covering an incredible amount of ground. The fact that Brownlow was able to incorporate clips from virtually every major film, and tons of minor ones is a miracle, given how many different companies hold the rights.

Another great thing about the series is the incredible variety of people interviewed ranging from Gloria Swanson, Colleen Moore, and King Vidor to Allan Dwan, Louise Brooks, and Anita Loos. Actors, actresses, stuntmen, cameramen, writers, critics, directors, producers and the occasional relative are all interviewed at length to give a wonderful picture of the silent era. Thankfully the series was filmed throughout the 70's so many of these wonderful people were still around to tell their stories.

It's absolutely wonderful to hear Gloria Swanson talk about the perils of filming with a lion, and to listen to old stuntman Harvey Parry dissect the different types of pratfalls that make up comedy.

It's incredible the amount of obscure footage that was compiled for this series ranging from wardrobe tests for Birth of a Nation to a promotional film of Marion Davies cleaning her apartment.

Oh and it's narrated by James Mason.

It's an absolutely incredible achievement, and tragically due to rights issues it probably won't be released on DVD.

I bought from a seller online, and I recommend you do the same.

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domino harvey
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#46 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:45 pm

Yeah, I recently saw two parts of the film and keep meaning to get the whole set from ILL, I agree that it's wonderful. I spent the whole time jotting down the names of movies and actors to check out later, much as I did with his wonderful Cinema Europe.

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Sloper
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#47 Post by Sloper » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:39 am

I remember bingeing on this one Christmas about seven years ago, what a treat! It's unashamedly a celebration of the silent era, with many of the episodes largely taken up by lengthy clips from the films, but it's also not afraid to show up the more depressing side of '20s Hollywood - the hypocrisy, the disregard for human life, the careers destroyed. Wallace Reid and Fatty Arbuckle spring to mind.

The stuntman episode is the real stand-out, and yes Harvey Parry is one of the best interviewees. Pretty horrifying stuff, though! Men getting bashed against trains, drowned in freezing rivers, run over by stagecoaches...

My favourite gruesome story is the one about Michael Curtiz filming Noah's Ark, and surprising a lot of inexperienced extras by dropping several tons of water on them, then throwing rocks at them when they tried to climb out of the ensuing flood (in which various horned animals were also flailing about). They needed something like 28 ambulances afterwards.

There was a wonderful clip in one of the episodes (I think the one about directors, 'The man with the megaphone' or something) from a Rex Ingram film called Mare Nostrum. It showed a Mata Hari-type figure being put in front of the firing squad. The film remains unavailable as far as I know, but it was such a privilege even to be able to glimpse it like this. There are hundreds of other examples - the series is a revelation even today, and must have been still more so back in 1980.

I also love Carl Davis's score, which even at its naffest is head and shoulders above the dross you usually hear on these things. Brownlow and Gill seemed to stop working with Davis as of the Griffith doc in '94, for which some of the incidental music was done by Nic Raine - did they have a falling out or something?

SheriffAmbrose
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:08 pm

#48 Post by SheriffAmbrose » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:11 pm

I saw most of this through ILL a few years ago and everything I saw was great. I should make a point to watch the rest or re-watch what I already saw and complete it this time.

Cinema Europe is well worth checking out. Thankfully I got that while it was still in print as it is being sold for nothing less than $200 on amazon right now.

I suspect that these will never be released again and that is really too bad.

If you haven't seen the Keaton, Chaplin and Lloyd ones that he did in the eighties, check them out. You are in for a treat.

Jonathan S
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#49 Post by Jonathan S » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:39 am

Sloper wrote:There was a wonderful clip in one of the episodes (I think the one about directors, 'The man with the megaphone' or something) from a Rex Ingram film called Mare Nostrum. It showed a Mata Hari-type figure being put in front of the firing squad. The film remains unavailable as far as I know, but it was such a privilege even to be able to glimpse it like this. There are hundreds of other examples - the series is a revelation even today, and must have been still more so back in 1980.

I also love Carl Davis's score, which even at its naffest is head and shoulders above the dross you usually hear on these things. Brownlow and Gill seemed to stop working with Davis as of the Griffith doc in '94, for which some of the incidental music was done by Nic Raine - did they have a falling out or something?
Mare Nostrum is shown fairly often on the US TCM channel. It was even screened at least once on the UK equivalent (then called TNT) in the 1990s, as part of a Rex Ingram season. As a whole, I found it disappointingly slow and dull. No doubt Ingram's painterly style works best in 35mm projection, though I enjoy The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, The Conquering Power and The Magician on video.

Carl Davis has worked on silents with Kevin Brownlow more recently - for example, on the score for DeMille's The Godless Girl, broadcast last year. Incidentally, I'd love to see Brownlow's two-part documentary on DeMille, made in 2004 and the only one of his more recent docs that is unavailable. With all the DeMille movies on DVD, somebody should have licensed it as an extra.

SheriffAmbrose
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:08 pm

#50 Post by SheriffAmbrose » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:29 am

Jonathan S wrote:I'd love to see Brownlow's two-part documentary on DeMille, made in 2004 and the only one of his more recent docs that is unavailable. With all the DeMille movies on DVD, somebody should have licensed it as an extra.
I saw that when it originally aired and I wish that I could see it again. It was filled with interesting stories (if I recall correctly a man was interviewed whose job it was on the set to follow DeMille around with a chair in case he wanted to sit down) and great film clips. TCM are often guilty of over playing some of their documentaries but I don't recall this one being on too often at all.

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