Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#26 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:13 am

I’m watching it subbed, my default with anime.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#27 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 am

Mr S -- I think there is definitely some absurdist (or surrealist) humor here and there -- but it is not the sort of humor I would laugh at -- maybe just smile.

TWBB -- I would worry that the sound environment might not be fully captured in a dubbed version of this show. The o/p Region A BRD/DVD set apparently has a dubbed version. But, in any event, I would never even consider watching this in English. ;-)

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#28 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:46 am

I revisited the end of ep 2, and since I wasn't just reacting to the shock of it like the first time, I thought it played as darkly comic
SpoilerShow
Given that we have no real 'evidence' that the shooter is really onto some conspiracy/truth, the dialogue between him and Lain can be read as being eerily in sync or as two rogue agents drunk on solipsism, triggering one another without any of what they're saying actually applying to that person in the way they mean to. Lain is so far gone into this overwhelming fugue state of hallucinations, dreams, paranoia, potential other selves or hers being introduced, the presence of another world with a god, etc., that the shooter could just be taken as another hallucination, but one that she's now finally ready to greet. Lain is beginning to self-actualize (faultily, perhaps) along the idea that she's some kind of superhuman who's special for all this stuff happening to her - especially after she went info-fishing with her classmates and found out they haven't been getting more emails, or visited by these alien experiences. Her response that everything is connected could be an extension of her weaponizing this fearful idea that used to cripple her with newfound confidence under the delusion of grandeur that she's beginning to accept to cope with this ungraspable, disrupting stimuli thrown her way. And the shooter could just be hallucinating, sensitive to someone resembling Lain's antisocial disposition approaching him to signal a conspiracy. Now, I doubt this is what's actually happening in the story, and maybe we'll find out this is all connected on a venn diagram sooner rather than later, but I like how the information is revealed with ambiguity where we can assume that, yes, there's probably a narrative purpose for which we're getting this strange encounter, but it also functions as an absurdist exchange of dark humor where each alienated person could feasibly be responding to their own echo chamber of egocentric crises, and not to any meaningful commonality between them.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#29 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:21 am

Recording thoughts as I binge a few episodes, stopping between them, so some might negate others over time. Still, this feels like the natural way to do it in the spirit of the project.
Episode 3Show
I’m starting to think that this alternate reality is a kind of wish fulfillment space- where people can essentially achieve the idea of becoming/finding God via becoming/finding their ‘whole’ personhood. If one can develop and live as a doppelganger, or character radically different from how they are in real life, within this system, isn’t that engaging in the concrete task of trying to live a full life? How many people behave in a way online that’s opposite to their character when interacting person-to-person? For example, does the guy who keeps making fake accounts and getting banned on this forum actually come off as a shy and kind person to their inner circle who see their face?

Or if God is in Wired, and that’s a different dimension than our world, does that mean that our world is Godless? Or that our world is ridden with disconnect because the bizarro world is harmonious? Is harmony actually the artificial state, whereas it’s natural to be isolated and sad, and thus we created places like Wired to evade the organic hellish fate in this space just to get reprieve in a false utopia that couldn’t ever live up to our ideals, like how people who try to have a dual opposite personality never actually feel better?
Episode 4Show
I like how the more lucid Lain becomes, the blurrier the lines get between reality and Wired. What does that say about engagement with all the stimuli we can access? I feel like Sam Levinson has postured in this direction, as has the Daniels' movie from this past year to some extent, and certainly Promising Young Woman 'went there' regarding the fate that awaits us if we devote our attention 100% to facing our traumas and committing to our causes without any cognitive dissonance... but there's something deeply troubling about this idea that, if we are to honestly stew in the muck of our vulnerable and diverse psychology -including our desires in personality and power, escapism, deviant antisocial parts, unchecked egos, etc.- and the external world that has differing agendas*, that we become more and more lost and susceptible for destructive behavior. The fact is, some of the rigid rules we create for ourselves actually aid our benefit, and that includes keeping us distracted enough from one part of ourselves that's just too unpredictable to trust engaging with directly, or curbing our potential to make things endlessly complex and to become indecisive and identity-less. Taking a step back from peeling back endless layers protects our identity, harnesses will power and energy that we can allocate elsewhere, and keeps us stable to contend with problems in 'reality' rather than split focus where we begin to care way too much about online dilemmas or the constructed value in spaces that have no actual effect on our lives. But Lain has a valued persona in Wired, and so she's experiencing positive reinforcement to participate more actively in the space that informs her self-esteem. It can work both ways.

*The second part really comes out with strong creative ideas in this ostensibly-accidental blend between one game and another- whereby gamers looking for one form of escapism are paired with children playing hide and seek, who are haunting and traumatizing their own schemas with theirs! In a space where ego functions (the mature parts of us that inhibit us from devolving into id, i.e. telling your boss to fuck off every time they give you a directive you don't like) don't exist, if there are multiple players with competing agendas, that creates a horrifying atmosphere- a nightmare scenario where you're lucid dreaming and someone else has a lucid dream within your dream, intruding in on your consciousness with theirs! That blurring, that unpredictable assault on the safe space of the imagination, is just as scary as the deaths potentially occurring in the elisions of these horror-scenes populating this episode. It doesn't really matter if people are literally dying, because the insinuation of another's design invading ours is existentially shattering; Sartre's 'Hell is Other People' personified in the confines of a virtual reality.
Episode 5Show
So the beginning of the episode basically explains a simple version of what we've all been predicting, as explained by "God" but- just like how the ending to episode four could potentially be read as Lain using some kind of telekinesis in Wired, despite it appearing to be 'our world'- who knows what's real about this opening. Is Lain getting deeper into contact with the Truth, or just feeding her own delusions? This episode plays a bit like Inception, but with more elisions to subvert any traction we may be offered to ground us, which I'd imagine we/the characters should have in a designated space like Wired. Just like Inception, one can go so deep that they don't know if they're in a dream or reality, and neither do we... Is this how the show will function all the way to its end? I hope so. It's only getting richer as it becomes simultaneously clearer and more abstract and nebulous, and that's really the only authentic way to portray such an obsessive rabbit hole of investigation into foreign terrain, be it introspective or a displaced context. Whatever this 'prophecy' is, it probably matters far less what the truth is and much more what it represents for these characters (as far as their insecurities about their objective importance, confidences in managing supreme tasks not offered before in actuality, etc.), just like the spinning totem in Inception. Did Christopher Nolan draw some inspiration here? I realize the fear shifts to another developing character in Mika regarding the prophecy, but I also think the arcs of other ancillary people in Lain's life works as a symptom of Lain's own delusions where she plays God, or has God's ear, in her own subjective reality. The final line, "Who is it today?" to her computer machine, gave me chills. Is she playing God to issue control over people in her life like Mika, traumatizing them with intrusive hallucinations of prophecies and the like?

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#30 Post by Murdoch » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:33 pm

I'm watching with subs. I watched the first two episodes dubbed when I first attempted watching the series a year or so ago. I didn't notice much of a difference between sub vs. dub, at least based on my minimal comparison of those early episodes.

Sausage, I haven't picked up on the black comedy you mention, although several moments stuck out to me as humorous in their oddness
episode 2Show
Specifically, that strange, robotic kiss between Lain's parents and the way the father speaks of computers.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#31 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:17 pm

I think the oddness here is Bunuel oddness (which I love but which rarely makes me laugh out loud). It is offhanded, totally straight-faced humor. Also reminiscent of some of the things Naruse will do.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#32 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:26 pm

I'm on episode 9, and feel pretty confident about my predictions for how the themes identified earlier are playing out, even as the plotting gets overwhelmingly specific. I think the show can function both at face-value or abstractly about that perceived instability as we struggle to get a grasp on our internal and external realities with any conviction, and that ambiguous splitting of what's defined within the series reflects Lain's (and.. our?) precarious experience as well on a reflexive level. In response to the 'dark comedy' conversation, I feel that as the bizarre occurrences escalate, the discomfort of losing a hold on reality drowns out a lot of the humor those scenes were able to pause on in earlier episodes. That's not a complaint, just an observation, and it's also rather fitting- just like how an awkward, uncomfortable situation may provokes a nervous laugh the first time, but doesn't become so funny the more it's incessantly and aggressively thrust upon us

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#33 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:42 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:26 pm
I feel that as the bizarre occurrences escalate, the discomfort of losing a hold on reality drowns out a lot of the humor those scenes were able to pause on in earlier episodes. That's not a complaint, just an observation, and it's also rather fitting- just like how an awkward, uncomfortable situation may provokes a nervous laugh the first time, but doesn't become so funny the more it's incessantly and aggressively thrust upon us
Very likely true. I think repetition and escalation makes this sort of things "scarier".

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#34 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:00 pm

Episode 10 and 11Show
I do like the idea that one's entire life is a lie ("fake friends, fake family"), whether they are lauded or preyed upon, whether they are a god or the isolated subject to a god, to be within the same family. Either way it's a tangible 'answer' that is disturbing but also satisfies the part of us that's uncomfortable with mystery. The Truman Show's reveals are shattering and depressing, but what's worse - knowing or believing definitively in one reality, or being confused and alienated within a space where we have no sense of what's truth or what isn't? I feel like the show is asking these relatively naked questions in friction with its profuse stimuli in plot and visual assaults.

And then episode 11 happens, and it's just complete disarray. The chaos of a crisis of memories or experiences or manifested nightmares, indistinguishable from one another. It's a testament to the show's understanding of psychology that they don't just simplify Lain's processing to revert back to her a binary state of participation or complacency- she's too far gone, too invested and 'aware'- or rather 'stimulated'- and that cannot be undone. The notion that she could achieve a state of serenity by retreating into a delusion at this point doesn't work. She's awake now- at least within her own consciousness to the fact that she doesn't have a grip on things, and those parts of her won't wilt in a move of anti-self-preservation. I realize I often explore concepts like these in IFS therapy terms which isn't a common language others here speak, but essentially the 'mature' parts of Lain will not allow her 'immature' parts to blind her as a defense, because they instinctively know this will be catastrophic for them. So, ironically, as we watch Lain unravel, we are also watching her gain resilience and evolve psychologically.

This is a pretty weird way to demonstrate how people grow most when challenged and uprooted from a complacent rhythm- but that's what this series seems to be doing.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#35 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:55 pm

Finished the series - overall I enjoyed it, though I think Neon Genesis Evangelion explored a lot of the same ideas with more developed characters to anchor the philosophy with an emotional undercurrent. Serial Experiments Lain feels like a more visceral induction of the emotions and concepts in that series.
AllShow
I liked the last act spread across the final episodes, which felt a lot like applying the Human Instrumentality idea in Evangelion in a way that has its cake and eats it too- and maybe (consciously or not) discloses the problems with going this route... All the other characters are allowed to go on living their lives happily with a reset, but Lain gets to be everywhere and devoid of her previous self - and although this can be seen as a bittersweet sacrifice, isn't there also something relieving for Lain about this kind of tangible and definite surrender, an escape into a nirvana-like state? I'm not sure the series holds the same opinion- or leaves room for the possibility that the show is reflexively 'copping out' right with its main character, or that it's emphasizing her value and promoting her as a god in accordance with the happy ending she deludes herself into seeing. But it feels a bit like the happy ending of the original series of Evangelion before The End of Evangelion eviscerated that face-value optimism as faulty logic and out of step with the complexity of the series.

I wonder if this series had similar issues with oversight, or if its ending was a mixture of the two competing Evangelion endings- yes, simplified and finite and cathartic, but also critical of this solution and the mindset that prompted it. Since the entire series is so synthesized with Lain's point of view, to the degree where we're not really sure what's real and what's not at all, it can work as both an ironic critique and a valuable subjectively emotional journey at the same time. I just have no idea if the series intended it to be one or the other or both or even ambiguous, and I'm not sure if it's a failure or a strength that I don't have a handle on this answer, or even the merits of the question being asked.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#36 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:18 am

Episode 3Show
Alright, so the chip that lets you into the spirit realm is called Psyche, the Greek god of the spirit. But given that the chip serves as a conduit to the Wired, more fitting would be a word derived from psyche, psychopomp, meaning a spirit guide. I don't know if the show has a coherent metaphysics; I'm inclined to believed these allusions are more like exotic dress, like if an American cyberpunk show were to name its tech after Buddhist ideas and iconography. It's there to suggest something, an atmosphere of the spiritual and esoteric. But we'll see. What does the show mean by spirit, anyway? Or heaven? Blus reads the Wired as a place of wish fulfillment, a way to explore identity outside the confines of social, familial, and bodily restrictions. This would make sense with the hinted metaphysics, as the spirit returning to heaven is often a fulfillment, a wholeness regained. The metaphysical (and even technological) language would be a way of talking about psychological concepts, like selfhood and identity. Is Lain ultimately pursuing actualization? Are we watching a flat, unresponsive, psychically unformed person realize the range and contours of their selfhood, just in the form of a technologically assisted spiritual awakening? As always, we'll see.

Stray thoughts:

-Lain's room is stark, isn't it? Empty besides stuffed animals arrayed on the sill, like mute witnesses.

-Traumatic events are often described as unreal after the fact, but the show takes that commonplace to an absurdist conclusion by having the characters literally act as though it happened on a tv show or something. So they talk about it in a flippant and trivial way, and then try to enact some fizzy slice-of-life anime tropes when they find Lain's letter like they hadn't just seen a dude die. It's as though deeply real moments hold no weight any longer; reality has become a set of empty, meaningless experiences with no felt authenticity.

-The tech obsessed dad was utterly unmoved by the psyche chip. Like the moment he didn't know something about technology, he checked out. The mom is permanently checked out. The sister seems a bit more engaged. There are no real relationships in the family, but the sister seems curious and reactive (comparatively).

-Lain launching into that happy anime face at the end was weird.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#37 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:54 am

I think your musings are befitting for a lot of animes focusing on this psychological-spiritual fulfillment through philosophical film language. It was interesting to try to differentiate this one from the key works, but I don’t think it’s actually as unique as it could be given the important context of anime’s oft-existentialist approach, and especially Neon Genesis Evangelion, which this sometimes feels like a direct response to

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#38 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:01 am

Obviously I can't say if any of its themes are novel. But what I like about the show is how it explores its themes within an absurdist, frightening, abstract space, where the rules of the everyday world aren't often violated (so far), and yet very little seems normal or identifiable. The family dynamics alone wig me out, and the constant empty spaces and unsketched areas make it feel like a world that's been drained. It's an interesting aesthetic experience.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#39 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:05 am

Yeah, I agree. The curious observations of static actions, and atypical human behavior of the family members work well within this series, which is both specific to it in certain respects and also not at all. But now I just want to recommend a bunch of other animes for you to prioritize consumption of in response to that note on its aesthetics

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#40 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:06 am

Recommend away.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#41 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:23 am

Outside of the key aforementioned cousin, Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue comes to mind, as well as his series Paranoia Agent. Even stuff like Revolutionary Girl Utena accomplishes this blend of absurdism within a familiar social context, only under a definitively novel internal logic- and there are plenty of series more in line with that one, where we get wrapped up in some candy-coated fluff of confidence and social harmony, only to be restrained back to this uncomfortable, raw isolation, revealing the former to be a ruse of sorts. Anime really likes to play with this kind of space to tonally-provoke us in places we dare not venture independently. I haven't actually explored a lot of the sci-fi stuff I have on deck yet, but I've sampled some which seem to be of a piece with Lain

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Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#42 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:43 am

I had the pleasure of seeing Perfect Blue in theatres a few years ago and loving its endless slippages between identities and realities. I like all of Kon’s movies except Millenium Actress.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#43 Post by vsski » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:19 pm

I’m limping a little behind others here as I’m only at Episode 5 (one that I admittedly had to watch twice trying to comprehend what is happening) and while my approach is less cerebral than others here, I find the series intriguing raising a lot of different concepts and issues and it finds me less certain in my projections as to where it is ultimately heading. I don’t have any comparisons with other animes, so can’t speak to how typical or atypical any of this is, but I find it overall enjoyable.
Here are some of my observations on Episodes 2-5:
episodes 2-5Show
Episode 2: Girls
- The main protagonist now seems to become more empowered as she is more inclined to use technology and asks her dad to immediately install the new computer and in the club confronts the drugged out shooter directly, something that seems out of character thus far
- Story wise while remnants of the first episode linger, it has now shifted to a new drug that heightens perception and focuses more strongly on connectedness through technology as well as a shift in personality of Lain (with some of her school friends questioning if she was the daring and outgoing girl in the club the other night, something she has no recollection of and given her typical personality is strongly doubted)
- From an animation perspective it continues to be extremely static bit now really looking like a budget issue vs. a stylistic choice with using the same repeat animation of her lying on her couch, leaving her house or walking down her street in front of her house
- While not a huge distraction to the story, it makes the atmosphere feel less fleshed out and some interactions less engaging

Episode 3: Psyche
- Lain is increasingly influenced by technology, while being watched by unknown men in a dark car indicating a larger organization or plot taking place with her at the center
- She receives a computer chip that supposedly improves the power of any device it is inserted into and when she asks her father what it is he simply says he doesn’t know and abruptly walks away, indicating that he does know but doesn’t want to talk about it
- When she revisits the club Cyberia where the murder suicide took place in episode 2 it’s clear people know her, but are surprised by her “child-like” outfit further indicating that another Lain exists that comes to the club who is flamboyant and wild
- Whether this is the same Lain who doesn’t remember having a dual persona or whether it’s a Lain in a different dimension isn’t yet clear, but with people saying she exists in the Wired multiple dimensions seem likely
- From an animation perspective it feels the characters are becoming more life like and richer and the cold visuals while still present (especially in Lain’s house) are starting to fade in the school and club scenes

Episode 4: Religion
- Technology is taking over more and more and now the Wired is shown to be a universe for people to connect, communicate and interact with each other to the point where it drives some to commit suicide, while other have hallucinations and see kindergarteners as dangerous accidentally killing them feeling threatened. Apparently this is all due to a popular game in the Wired called Phantoma and Lain is starting to explore it.
- Everyone around her, her class mates and even her father and family are noticing her changes and the father even warns her about the fact that the Wired is not the real world and she shouldn’t confuse the two. She disagrees to his astonishment and now seems to be on a dangerous trajectory where the real world and the artificial one become one.
- She also now seems to acquire special powers as through her will she is able to threaten one of the two men in the black car outside her house with laser beam guided vision devices , by being able to destroy his device with her voice and thoughts and to chase them away.
- It’s still unclear who these two are and at the same time a new ominous groups called the Knights is introduced that seems to be have a strong influence in the Wired, although it’s equally unclear who they are at this point
- The theme of technology as the overarching guiding force in Lain’s life seems to further manifest itself and the question of whether the Wired is a modern god clear comes to mind with technology becoming the new religion.
- Animation wise the bright white background seem to get more and more replaced with darker and often pitch black background, while the character animation is becoming more refined and people are more fleshed out beings.

Episode 5: Distortion
- Now things start getting more cerebral with Lain encountering images in her room of a doll, an African tribal mask and then her mother and finally her father all talking about the Wired, who may be behind it, how it came into existence and what it’s purpose is
- The whole concept of the Deus-ex-Machina is being explored by saying that god in the Wired is not merely a concept like in the real world, but the governing force / being of that artificial world
- Also the idea of the artificial world crossing over into the real world is being explored especially with the god of the Wired exerting his influence over the real world in form of prophecies
- And the idea of prophecies is explored with Lain’s sister who seems to be hounded by visions and events asking her to fulfill the prophecy without her knowing what it is
- It finally ends with Lain’s sister coming home only to find out that she already is at home thereby exploring of the theme of the artificial Doppelgänger motif that started to be eluded to with Lain herself since the second episode
- It finally ends on Lain entering a dark room that looks like a spooky all wired data center with countless computers and screens asking who is next
- For me the show takes on a decidedly more cerebral / psychological turn trying to explore themes of why we exist, who is really ruining our lives, the spiritual concept of alternative universes and whether god does exist and if so in what form
- I’m now less certain in what direction this will develop as the possibilities are endless, but it certainly feeds my interest to continue
- From an animation aspect I’m still struggling at times with the fact that many images show a blend of movement and static that for me seems highly unnatural and my initial inclination is still to think that budgetary concerns drive some of it, but maybe I’m simply so accustomed to the Pixar / Disney style of natural character movements that it takes getting used to
- One interesting aspect is that the psychedelic inter titles driving the story and providing an “external” voice have disappeared since Episode 2, although other external voices are now taking over presumably coming from Wired, but the style clearly changes
- At the beginning of Episode 5 for the first time more realistic background of buildings in Tokyo’s Shibuya district emerge that look like photos who have been overplayed with watercolor like paint effects, something not seen this far

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#44 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:09 pm

I'm going very slowly myself. I don't find myself wanting to binge this one. Each episode is so weird and dense that I like to let it sit with me for a bit before moving on.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#45 Post by Murdoch » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:14 pm

You're ahead of me, I just finished episode three!
episode 3Show
This was a very strange episode and I can't really get a read on the show. There are brief moments where Lain shows emotion - smiling at Arisu slightly, acting in anger toward the boy who wants her "wild" self to go out with him, the ending with Lain beaming at her sister. But between those moments, Lain continues sleepwalking - quiet, blank stare, barely speaking. Lain seeks to communicate with her mother to no avail, and her father brushes off her question about the Psyche.

The episode at the very least explains its world a little more. Navis are in wide use, even in grade schools, Psyche is their processing power, and a group called the Knights was responsible for creating that weird drug

There are some new things introduced - two men watching Lain from a car, a disembodied voice - that will be interesting to see how they fit in with the Wired.

I think my next post will be addressing several episodes, as this one was setting up plot points for future episodes, it feels more like it's moving toward something as these new elements enter Lain's world

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#46 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:51 pm

episode 3Show
One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned. The closest thing to normal conversations Lain has is her talks with the three younger children at (and around) Cyberia. I've never quite figured this out, but it has always felt like it makes sense. I also like the reversed dynamic -- they are younger than her but they are her "teachers", more so than anyone else she has encountered.

I wonder about Lain's father's reaction to the new computer part she got. Is it that he didn't understand it so he didn't want to talk about it? Or was it the reverse? He did know what it was and, thus, wanted to stay out of what she was going to do.
vsski -- I am quite sure that the sparse and unusual visual style was NOT due to budget constraints. This was not intended to look like other TV anime of the era. Rather it drew from more experimental animation styles. It is intended to create unease (and other emotional reactions). It is precisely because this did NOT look like other contemporary TV anime that I was interested in watching this.

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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#47 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:15 pm

Michael:
AllShow
The questions about Lain's father's motives might require additional context from later in the series to fully process- I'm curious if you're asking that from the position of episode 3 or just in general? It's kinda hard to ignore the reveal that he's been faking being her father under this 'ruse of consciousness' (or whatever she's been tricked into believing is her 'reality' with implanted memories, if I'm understanding that plot point correctly) and is aligned with these ominous forces, only playing a role here... if we take that at face value, which I'm not sure I do

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#48 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:28 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:51 pm
episode 3Show
One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned. The closest thing to normal conversations Lain has is her talks with the three younger children at (and around) Cyberia. I've never quite figured this out, but it has always felt like it makes sense. I also like the reversed dynamic -- they are younger than her but they are her "teachers", more so than anyone else she has encountered.
SpoilerShow
I'd assumed she was picking up aspects of her doppelganger's identity while in the only space they've shared. But maybe the reason it makes sense is because there's nothing to be nervous about, socially. For a shy young teen in a hierarchical society, teachers, peers, and parents can make you nervous and uncomfortable. There are social expectations for you to fit. But some young kids at a club? There just aren't any social expectations--the kids are lower on the social hierarchy, and it's an unofficial spot they probably shouldn't be at anyway. So Lain can relax a bit, be less uptight and controlled.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#49 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:32 pm

Mr. S -- In any event, I thought this was a nice little story touch. ;-)

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Mr Sausage
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Anime Watchalong: Serial Experiments Lain (Ryūtarō Nakamura, 1998)

#50 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:35 pm

Episode 4Show
Borders are breaking down: between identities, between different games, between online and offline. Lain is growing in confidence, showing a wider range of affect (still weird, tho'). Even her friends see it. She can use the psyche processor to project herself into the Wired, observing other people's play tho' she cannot yet insert herself into the action. It's like astral-projection: Lain's sending her spirit out into the Wired, which is increasingly also the world. This has also given her psychokinetic abilities, not unlike what happens with Neo in the Matrix sequels.

The voice in the Navi posits the Knights are "a religion spreading through the Wired". So that would make them the social aspect of spirituality that presents as institutionalized control. Will this be a protestant story, with the Church as the villain seeking to repress individual spirituality? Are those laser-pointer agents from the Knights? Or will the show take this somewhere else?

I like how the tech in the movie is well beyond what was actually available in 1998, but the games are primitive in comparison to what was available at the time. That shooter game looks like shit next to Quake 2 and Half-Life. By and large, games as presented in movies and tv always look markedly less sophisticated than what's commercially available in the real world. See also: episode 2 of Black Mirror.

I don’t know, I still find this show kind of humorous. Like the guy running away in panic from some thing that's chasing him, and when the reveal comes, it's this sweet little girl with her stuffed animal. It’s creepy, but it has comic timing, too. Just the whole reveal that people are dying because of an innocent children's game is blackly funny.

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