TV of 2023

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therewillbeblus
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Re: TV of 2023

#2 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:02 am

Computer Raheem wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:42 pm
I need this injected into my bloodstream immediately

Will say, it's funny how Netflix is making the common mistake of marketing Refn's work within its genre parameters when, at this point in his career, his style makes it quite clear that the show is going to be a lot slower and frustrating than the generic version they would have preferred (though at this point, if you're financing a Nicolas Winding Refn project, you should know what you're getting)
I'm only two episodes in, but Refn continues to demonstrate that he needs the long form of miniseries to capitalize on his talents at unveiling depth with deliberate patience. This is a slow burn of delicious reveals in narrative, characterization, and tone, though you may be surprised that it moves at the speed of lightning compared to Too Old to Die Young (or Only God Forgives, or Neon Demon...) and is perhaps his most economical work yet in finally locating the perfect tempo between generously excessive style and systematic forward momentum. Refn has also remarkably found a strong stoic lead in Angela Bundalovic, who expresses layers of emotion and personality with reticent facial acting, but her alien skills are organically distinguished and profoundly captivating. Even when we get what could be the silliest info-drop at the end of episode two, she sells it without flinching and we (or I, at least) are right there with her.

So yeah, this is definitely a distinctly "Refn pic" but I'd also feel a bit more comfortable (so far) pitching it as a "perverse magical realism neo-noir" to people I know without prefacing the recommendation with a mandatory, "Have.. you seen a Nicolas Winding Refn film before?"

Also, I find it hilarious that at the start of each episode Netflix has a warning of TV-MA for only "language, smoking," excising any note of violence or sexual content… I think Netflix is smart to market Refn's work with a series of striking images whilst feeding his ethos, but now I'm wondering if.. they've never seen any of it? Or is this baffling error actually a cheeky stipulation in NWR’s contact?

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Re: TV of 2023

#3 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:14 pm

Okay, I spoke too soon... After episode two, Refn immediately retracts from the linearly-focused progression he established to old habits in pointlessly elliptical design informing alienating narrative pivots that dilute the building interest in Miu's character or the story he's trying to tell. Perhaps worst of all, he fills the time by borrowing from his old works but without connecting them on the thematic levels he a) believes he's doing, and b) did before. This goes for retreading material I didn't think was "deep" to begin with, such as the Freudian incestual dynamics in Only God Forgives cultivating perceived roles, or the fusion of corporeal glamour that's satirized as vapid and appreciated as spiritually-significant at once under Refn's own conflicted worldview, which I guess he's postured at with Neon Demon and many things he's done to some degree. But the celestial stuff here isn't fleshed out in any way to earn investment let alone basic understanding of 'what', so there's no emotional power to be found and it all comes off as faux-spirituality. I'm not even talking about Miu's powers so much as Nicklas' whole weird "spiritual" connection with his mother and sister, contrasting with his father's preoccupation with corporeal symbols of toxic masculinity, which takes on an acolyte status that threatens to cheekily render spiritual value meaningless and inseparable from superficial value in our society of moral erosion... But Refn already expressed this far better in his last series, which I think is his magnum opus, and one that takes its time to appreciate dimensions of existentialist-fueled emotion buried under the fatalistic protective walls of physical and psychological aesthetic. No, Copenhagen Cowboy has nothing to say, and that's fine, but it's not really giving us anything fun to do with what it sets up either, and that includes any typical NWR "Cool Violence" too. I realize this is going to be an actual TV series, since episode six ends with the introduction of a key character (name-dropped in the series' brief synopsis, for god's sake) but it would've been better served if stretched out twice as long to fulfill its narrative potential. Anyways, a fine way to spend a few hours, but a big step backwards from Too Old to Die Young and its first two episodes, which serve as promising tone-setters only to fizzle out in the transition to three.

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Re: TV of 2023

#4 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:54 am

Blus, as a therapist, exactly how much of a fit do you think Shrinking will send you into?

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Re: TV of 2023

#5 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:03 am

Mr Sausage wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:54 am
Blus, as a therapist, exactly how much of a fit do you think Shrinking will send you into?
I watched the trailer yesterday and think it looks terrible, though not just because of how misguided it is about how therapy works. But to answer you in character: Unless the concept (that will apparently sustain the series past.. five minutes?) that giving direct advice is the correct intervention and will prompt immediate change for clients is actually a long con to reveal its fallacy, the show is not only completely regressive regarding our client-centered evolution of practice, but offensive to people struggling with acute problems and seeking help in response to the unmanageability of their lives. So are the creators saying that if one is suffering, all they need is to be told to shape up and that’ll fix things? So they’re just weak or dumb, skills and perspective available that readily? I could appreciate it as a satire (could anyone give them this readily-accessible advice, or would they only accept it from someone in the role of a 'professional', thereby diluting the value of the profession and poking fun at our societal preoccupation with status simultaneously; or how about documenting the irritation and perceived inertia from clients at receiving a typical "How does that make you feel?" reply, as well as highlighting our comfort with binary actions- therapists and clients alike -to either swing the pendulum towards rote apathy/submission or enthusiastic engagement in resolving problems, high on that power differential or concrete markers of progress, rather than exist in a middle space of uncertainty and discomfort) but, at first glance, it seems very sincere with the focus pitched on the therapist and not in an ironic way. My reaction wasn't one of surprise or frustration (at this point, it's par for the course, oddly as more people gain experience with therapy, which has become a part of ordinary routine for many) but foreboding. I look forward to the significant percentage of clients who enter treatment conflating my profession with a magician to make this show a topic of conversation, in defense of the warped ideal of being spoonfed results that they rigidly cling to as they seek services with compromised willingness to take action themselves. This internal conflict is part of the work for every client and person even outside of therapy, of course, but it's difficult to help someone who isn’t just struggling to get out of their own way, but is unable to see this as a significant barrier and first step to treatment. I do think sending messages like these are harmful, as many client expect to be told what to do and to become 'fixed', and it takes a lot of work to undo this, but whatever - maybe this kind of show gets greenlit in the first place because it validates our desire as not only providers but people to tangibly better the lives of others in our network, as well as those seeking help to receive it in tangible form. So it may be successful as wish fulfillment, but I don't trust the general public to ingest it as a farce.

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Re: TV of 2023

#6 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:25 pm


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Re: TV of 2023

#7 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:01 pm

Apprehensive about this. A limited series on Keaton should really have a narrow scope such as focusing exclusively on the Arbuckle trial and how that event affected the friendship and working relationship between Arbuckle and Keaton. That could be really effective dramatically while allowing for plenty of stunts and clowning around. Or, the series could just be about Keaton losing his independence when moving to MGM and the onset of alcoholism. But trying to do twenty years or more in Keaton's life will probably make this feel too scattershot as most traditional biopics are.

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Re: TV of 2023

#8 Post by Penti Mento » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:09 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:03 am
Mr Sausage wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:54 am
Blus, as a therapist, exactly how much of a fit do you think Shrinking will send you into?
I watched the trailer yesterday and think it looks terrible, though not just because of how misguided it is about how therapy works.
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Re: TV of 2023

#9 Post by cdnchris » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:48 pm

My daughter and I ended up watching the first four episodes of Rian Johnson's Poker Face on Peacock, and I'm finding it to be quite a bit of fun.

It's set up similarly to Columbo in that you see the murder and follow along as Natasha Lyonne's character tries to solve it. She's not a detective, but like Jessica Fletcher she happens to be in the right place at the right time, and the victim is someone she's friends with or just happens to meet in passing.

The gimmick of the show is that she knows when someone is lying (no explanation as to why she just senses it), but the show does use it cleverly and not as a lazy way to move the plot forward. In fact, the skill isn't used all that much other than it's what may push her to look into something suspicious. It's also used to good effect in the first episode where the murderer, who is aware of her skill, chooses his words wisely when talking to her.

The show is also very funny, and Lyonne is good. The third episode is my daughter's favorite so far, which involves a BBQ pit master who goes vegan (after watching Okja) and a dog that may be fascist.

It pays obvious homage to the Peter Falk show with its use of guest stars, and the opening credits are even styled after its credits. I'm easily pleased by murder mysteries, but I look forward to the upcoming episodes.

Edit: I should note the show isn't family friendly, and I knew it going in, but f-bombs are liberally dropped and the first episode has a plot point around dick pics and a bad guy involved in child porn.

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Re: TV of 2023

#10 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:23 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:48 pm
a dog that may be fascist
A nod to Eerie, Indiana?!

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Re: TV of 2023

#11 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 pm


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Re: TV of 2023

#12 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:06 am

Someone on Twitter last night referred to Progressive Insurance’s Flo and “her cadre of idiots” and it’s making me laugh all over again.

Speaking of which, here’s Charley Steiner reminiscing with Rich Eisen on having to report on Carl Lewis attempting to sing the national anthem, 30 years ago on SportsCenter.
Last edited by flyonthewall2983 on Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TV of 2023

#13 Post by brundlefly » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:17 am

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 pm
Kathy Bates is the new Matlock
This is only going to confuse the hell out of a bunch of old people.

OTOH (from that link) Elsbeth Tascioni is a gem of a character and though I fear extended exposure could dilute her appeal, there was never a second she was on The Good Fight when I wasn't wishing there were more seconds of her on The Good Fight.

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Re: TV of 2023

#14 Post by The Curious Sofa » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:22 pm

brundlefly wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:17 am
flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 pm
Kathy Bates is the new Matlock
This is only going to confuse the hell out of a bunch of old people.

OTOH (from that link) Elsbeth Tascioni is a gem of a character and though I fear extended exposure could dilute her appeal, there was never a second she was on The Good Fight when I wasn't wishing there were more seconds of her on The Good Fight.
The Good Fight lost me over last couple of seasons, not being able to go up against Trump made the show feel without impetus, it never got over the loss of a couple of orginal cast members and it became a little too silly for my taste. I'm so on board with a Elsbeth Tascioni spin-off though, during the The Good Wife I already thought that would be a no-brainer. Thanks to Carrie Preston, Tascioni was one of the most delightful recurring characters of any TV show ever. While Poker Face (which I have not yet seen) just staked the claim to being the female Columbo, Tascioni always struck me as very Columbo-like in the way she wrong foots opponents by hiding a sharp mind behind a scatterbrained appearance.

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Re: TV of 2023

#15 Post by Black Hat » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:10 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 pm
Kathy Bates is the new Matlock
looking forward to the tucker carlson segment on this!

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Re: TV of 2023

#16 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:18 pm

Maybe he’ll demand she be recast by a bowl of m&ms

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Re: TV of 2023

#17 Post by brundlefly » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:33 am

The Curious Sofa wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:22 pm
The Good Fight lost me over last couple of seasons, not being able to go up against Trump made the show feel without impetus, it never got over the loss of a couple of orginal cast members and it became a little too silly for my taste. I'm so on board with a Elsbeth Tascioni spin-off though, during the The Good Wife I already thought that would be a no-brainer. Thanks to Carrie Preston, Tascioni was one of the most delightful recurring characters of any TV show ever. While Poker Face (which I have not yet seen) just staked the claim to being the female Columbo, Tascioni always struck me as very Columbo-like in the way she wrong foots opponents by hiding a sharp mind behind a scatterbrained appearance.
Agree about Tascioni following the Columbo template to a t. I have mixed feelings about The Good Fight overall; it took stabs at greatness but was mostly satisfied being very good television. Its foundation was flawed -- let's make a show about a black law firm built around Christine Baranski! -- and it was aware of that but both lacked the conviction to seriously challenge itself and was secure in the correct knowledge that, fuck it, Baranski was the heart of the show. And I think some of the flailing toward the end was due to having nothing new to do with Baranski and being unable to successfully frame the Lockhart-McVeigh marriage over the insurrection as a binding symbol of American unity. Especially when the Lockhart-McVeigh marriage was pretty great and should have been an easier focus than LSD'ing out with John Slattery.

I'd argue there was good stuff still, though. Mandy Patinkin's private court system was a great terrible idea that revealed itself well enough until it had to cartoonishly implode. The Carmen Moyo character could have been a great one had they not forced her into action so quickly and had they not been so eager to have her plug-and-play for Lucca Quinn. But as time capsule stuff it's valuable to have some amusing way to vent the Trump years, the Kings are great at cycling in guest stars(*)(doubly so when they use the same ones on Evil in completely different ways), and it gave us one of the all-timer opening credits sequences.(**)

(*) And secure in their television-ness, I loved it when they used guests to stage Spin City and Hannibal reunions.
(**) Again rivaled by the one for their other show featuring Carrie Preston's husband.
Last edited by brundlefly on Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TV of 2023

#18 Post by cdnchris » Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:32 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
cdnchris wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:48 pm
a dog that may be fascist
A nod to Eerie, Indiana?!
Sadly, more than likely not.
SpoilerShow
The dog is overly aggressive and considered an "asshole" by everyone who crosses her. The only thing that calms her is when she listens to an alt-right radio commentator who spouts all sorts of nonsense that she happily responds to. In the end it may be something else that the dog finds appealing about the commentator.

There are a few funny gags around the dog in other areas, but she's essentially what gets Lyonne's character investigating the central murder.

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Re: TV of 2023

#19 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:48 pm

Amazon is releasing a six-episode update of Dead Ringers on April 21 with Rachel Weisz in the lead roles and Sean Durkin and Karyn Kusama directing four of the episodes

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Re: TV of 2023

#20 Post by Matt » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:30 pm

Normally I would say “no thanks” to any attempt to remake or update a Cronenberg film, but the presence of Rachel Weisz (and Jennifer Ehle) is a powerful enticement. I hope I don’t regret watching it (as I do most prestige TV these days).

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Re: TV of 2023

#21 Post by Persona » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:40 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:14 pm
Okay, I spoke too soon... After episode two, Refn immediately retracts from the linearly-focused progression he established to old habits in pointlessly elliptical design informing alienating narrative pivots that dilute the building interest in Miu's character or the story he's trying to tell. Perhaps worst of all, he fills the time by borrowing from his old works but without connecting them on the thematic levels he a) believes he's doing, and b) did before. This goes for retreading material I didn't think was "deep" to begin with, such as the Freudian incestual dynamics in Only God Forgives cultivating perceived roles, or the fusion of corporeal glamour that's satirized as vapid and appreciated as spiritually-significant at once under Refn's own conflicted worldview, which I guess he's postured at with Neon Demon and many things he's done to some degree. But the celestial stuff here isn't fleshed out in any way to earn investment let alone basic understanding of 'what', so there's no emotional power to be found and it all comes off as faux-spirituality. I'm not even talking about Miu's powers so much as Nicklas' whole weird "spiritual" connection with his mother and sister, contrasting with his father's preoccupation with corporeal symbols of toxic masculinity, which takes on an acolyte status that threatens to cheekily render spiritual value meaningless and inseparable from superficial value in our society of moral erosion... But Refn already expressed this far better in his last series, which I think is his magnum opus, and one that takes its time to appreciate dimensions of existentialist-fueled emotion buried under the fatalistic protective walls of physical and psychological aesthetic. No, Copenhagen Cowboy has nothing to say, and that's fine, but it's not really giving us anything fun to do with what it sets up either, and that includes any typical NWR "Cool Violence" too. I realize this is going to be an actual TV series, since episode six ends with the introduction of a key character (name-dropped in the series' brief synopsis, for god's sake) but it would've been better served if stretched out twice as long to fulfill its narrative potential. Anyways, a fine way to spend a few hours, but a big step backwards from Too Old to Die Young and its first two episodes, which serve as promising tone-setters only to fizzle out in the transition to three.
I disagree.

After not liking (Neon Demon, Only God Forgives) / not being able to finish (Too Old to Die Young) a Refn thing since Drive, I was stunned to find myself moved, provoked, and pretty much enraptured by Copenhagen Cowboy, from beginning to end.

It feels to me a bit like Refn's take on a Twin Peaks. There is of course what the title suggests, the juxtaposition of a Western with European and Eastern sensibilities in aesthetics and content. The revolving door narrative structure is fascinating, never truly serial and never truly episodic, miniature arcs connected and overlapping into double exposures of theme and mood. "Trauma" is an overused touch-point in art these days, even the MCU hammers it, but the elliptical, artful and esoteric approach of Copenhagen Cowboy really opened up new possibilities for me in seeing a what a modern work can do to show in a heightened way a broken world and the spirits that are forged into something else from that brokenness. The interplay of the various forces in this show becomes a mesmerizing dance, and without ever feeling the need to explain itself, the weight that Miu carries grows greater and greater as the lives she encounters bring more and more dimension to her journey. There is also something to be said for the show's take on the corruptibility of the transcendent and the consequences of simply trying to exist with agency and purpose. The final episode's title, "The Heavens Will Fall" is a wonderfully fitting and evocative capstone to much of this season's thematic endgame. But this is is Refn at his most tender. There is a purity and nobility at the heart of this show, even as the show talks about how those abstract ideals can in effect be supernatural in the world as we know it and what happens when those qualities are forced to commingle with a darkness that is hard-wired into existence. It also describes pain and cosmic justice in very powerful, pointed ways.
SpoilerShow
There is a point where a character says, "She is not one. She is many." This is cryptic and perhaps could be seen even as meaningless, but for me in the context of what the show has shown up to that point, lands with so much import and quiet revelation, it almost completely sold me on some of the series' very late narrative turns.
The neon lighting infatuation does grow a bit tiresome and the actors are still bound by the strictures of Refn's directing, though I think that actually works in this particular work's favor given the casting approach and the fantastical nature of some of the content. And I felt the characters here were realized by the writers, Refn, and the performers in a way that I haven't always felt with some of his other work. Refn is obsessed with mood and sound and color, and for once I think that comes through in different varieties with the characters here, too. In terms of building a mythology, I am not sure I have seen anything by Refn that performs that act as intentionally as he does here, but in so doing without much in the way of exposition, he has really landed on a world and a means of expressing it that spoke to me very highly of what he can do when his methods of ambient immersion and tonal manipulation have a substantial groundwork beneath them.

So, yeah, chalk me up as one of the small percentage of people who have seen this show and also as one of the even smaller percentage who loved it.

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Re: TV of 2023

#22 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:47 pm

I would encourage you to finish Too Old to Die Young then, which doesn't really seems like it's going to be anything until it becomes everything, and reveals that kind of emotionality cumulatively as the coldness erodes. That requires patience and open-mindedness and... a good deal of time, but maybe this positive experience will be motivating

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Re: TV of 2023

#23 Post by Persona » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm

Yes, been meaning to finish that one. I got stuck in a big way on the second episode and then when I returned to it, I think I feel asleep and woke up and found myself like five episodes in, ha.

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Re: TV of 2023

#24 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm

Persona wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Yes, been meaning to finish that one. I got stuck in a big way on the second episode and then when I returned to it, I think I feel asleep and woke up and found myself like five episodes in, ha.
I know a lot of people like that second episode, but it's a long departure from the central narrative very early and one of the bits I remember the least, so I don't think it should be taken as indicative of what to expect. I've been meaning to revisit it, but I usually tell people to push through the first two and if you're not adjusting to the show during the next few, make a judgment call

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Re: TV of 2023

#25 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:15 am

Mr Sausage wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:54 am
Blus, as a therapist, exactly how much of a fit do you think Shrinking will send you into?
I've only just started Shrinking, and it could totally fall apart into what I initiated feared, but for now I think it's some kind of brilliant. The trailer feels deceptively sincere in hindsight, since this is a show clearly self-aware about the flaws and benefits to radical social/professional intervention. It's candidly non-prescriptive about whether Segel is doing more harm or good, as he appropriately shrugs off the promise of results his clients are seeking from him, and invites objective destruction from his own disorganized chaos acting without foresight. The show seems to be getting compared to Ted Lasso, but while I have no idea how it materializes in that direction throughout the season, the connection that comes to mind isn't one of inspiration - it's the undercurrent to how Ted's directive behaviors defensively masks his own nebulous work to do, and that all the positive intention and action in the world can still cause anguish for those we're trying to help if we're not seeing peripherally and checking ourselves. Here it's reflected as a more brutally-earnest logic where traumatized, depressed people can exist in self-obsessed delusion, and even if it's a win for them to taking things slow and celebrate their perceived successes in emerging from that pit of despair, it doesn't mean they're evolving or helping where it counts most, or recognizing the people who are most ignored. The contradiction of Segel seeking space from someone who wouldn't let him 'bottom-out' while also over-correcting and preaching positivity to his clients is a nice touch.

Anyways, there's a lot to like here, and as someone who believes in intervening 'outside the box' (maybe not quite this radical!) and the importance of one's authentic brand to accomplish the number-one key to therapy for any meaningful work to be done - the alliance of the relationship - I cosign its underlying ethos. Plus I'm always happy to see someone working at a rigid CBT clinic say fuck this and do more abstract therapy, and don't think Segel's general demeanor is automatically problematic since lowering the power differential is a crucial strategy rarely considered so actively (and certainly not at those clinics!) I also appreciated the depiction of the selfish motivation in providers seeking tangible results, the grey area of 'use of self' in developing the therapeutic relationship, and whether we do it for the benefit of the client or ourselves. I actually think this show can do a fair amount of 'good' for clients expecting their providers to be robotic fixers, since it pitches them as imperfect messes themselves that still doesn't inhibit their potential to help externally. The show is basically the "Oh miracle of these empty hands!" bit from Diary of a Country Priest with a big fat question-mark at the end of that sentence instead of an explanation point. At least for now. Hopefully I don't eat these words by the season's end, but this is a lot of fun and doesn't pretend to be realistic or moral in its absurdities.

A few more observations: Christa Miller's character is fascinating, a keen observance of how we get something out of every relationship dynamic (just as the female client who's a victim of her boyfriend's emotional abuse does, crazy as that sounds) as she slides into the role of a surrogate mother in order to fulfill her own sense of purpose and identity as well as help - the show never shaming the selfish side of things, even if it does evaluate them and all their warts in a confrontational manner (hmm, kinda like therapy? The show is creating a safe space for its audience? How wonderfully self-reflexive!) Harrison Ford's character is also getting primed to be a rich one - really looking forward to his role in this system. The show reveals itself to really be about how we’re all going through acute life transitions and need objective safe parties to support us in order to grow, and coming out of the last three years, it’s something mass audiences will relate to easily.

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