Barry

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Murdoch
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Re: Barry

#26 Post by Murdoch » Fri May 03, 2019 11:27 pm

I've caught up with the new season and am glad I did. Last episode felt like the Coens directing True Detective's "Who Goes There." It was the best half-hour of television this year. For all the fuss that Game of Thrones' uninspired fan-service battle inspired, it's a shame this was overshadowed.

The most surprising thing of all was Hader showing his strength as a director and writer. I didn't think he had this kind of creative talent in him but he gave series regular Hiro Murai a run for his money.

And on top of all that, it tackled something that had been bugging me throughout the show's run - Fuchs' and Barry's relationship. As much as I love Root, his character felt largely unnecessary to me until now. This episode fleshed out their connection in just a few dream sequences better than the show as a whole has done in its 14 other episodes.

The only unfortunate thing is that the follow-up to this week is unlikely to be anywhere near as good as Hader's episode. Still, if he can pull off a mad romp involving a growling backflipping child and her Taekwondo-trained father fighting Hader across town, I'm sure he has more up his sleeve for this series.

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Re: Barry

#27 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:15 am

The follow-up will at least feature characters like No-Ho Hank and Gene who were wholly absent from the episode.

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Re: Barry

#28 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon May 06, 2019 8:43 am

...and that it did, but to a lesser degree than I would have liked. The subplot with Gene's son had some real legs to it in previous episodes and I hope it will be revisited for the last two episodes.

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Re: Barry

#29 Post by denti alligator » Tue May 07, 2019 8:26 am

I basically watch this show to see Hank.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Barry

#30 Post by Andre Jurieu » Fri May 10, 2019 5:57 pm

After being a little bit disappointed and frustrated by the first season, I have to say that I think the second season has been a significant improvement, in terms of direction and character development. I usually think flash-backs are poorly executed and over-used nowadays, but the show is a rare exception of the tactic actually strengthening the material, mostly because of the immediate juxtaposition between the reality and the fabrication.

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Re: Barry

#31 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:45 pm

Sarah Goldberg as Sally really delivered on last night's episode, pretty much as she has been this entire season really. Her poolside monologue really broke down her relationship with Barry in such a sad and succinct way.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Barry

#32 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon May 13, 2019 5:26 pm

I've really enjoyed Sarah Goldberg's performance much more this season than the last one. During the first season, I thought the character was kind of sketched as a broad stereotype of female actors in LA, which bordered on offensive and was definitely bland and tired from my perspective. They provided her with much more material this season, and while the Sally-narrative remains a little bit typical, it appears that the creators/writers are at least aware of how poorly TV usually presents this type of story (last night's episode really helped).

Of course, as a huge fan of The Good Place I keep hoping they elevate D'Arcy Carden's character, Natalie, beyond just being the Type-A student. It seems like a missed opportunity whenever Carden briefly appears on-screen, so I'm hoping they find a way to develop her character a bit more as the show progresses.

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Re: Barry

#33 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:14 am

Last night's finale delivered more on the dread than it did the humor. It was not a poor episode at all, but that balance is what really sets this show apart and hopefully it can be restored in the third season. Overall a really solid season that managed to weave through any problems and rise above expectations.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Barry

#34 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue May 21, 2019 11:44 am

I thought the finale was great. Hader's directing is quite impressive and seems to be continuously evolving. I find the show sometimes side-steps the darker morality that plays out within its narrative in favour of the comedy, so I don't mind that much when it confronts some of the harsher elements of its premise.

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Re: Barry

#35 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:46 am

Season 3 premieres next Sunday. I’ve been introducing my dad to the show and I laughed a little harder at the nod to the superstition about saying Macbeth’s name in a theater in the first season.

I will be in utter delight to see how dad reacts to the 5th episode of the next season awaiting us now.

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Re: Barry

#36 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon May 02, 2022 1:04 am

I swear this just goes from strength to strength in each episode. It goes from dark and serious to absurd and back again, and Hader is just off the charts terrifying.

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Re: Barry

#37 Post by cdnchris » Mon May 23, 2022 1:54 pm

This show has always been dark but I am kind of in awe at how dark it's going this season as the sociopathic Barry descends into... I don't know what to call it: depression, madness? Yet it's still quite funny (if not as funny as the previous couple seasons), that Face Time call with the Chechens (including Michael Ironside!) being a highlight, along with the the Joe Mantegna dinner. I feel in other hands the show would try to make you sympathize with Barry (even though he was a piece of shit and the show reminded you of this every so often, Breaking Bad did push you to root for Walter White on a number of occasions), but this is really going the polar opposite where you sympathize with everyone other than him. Except maybe Fuches, who is just as awful. Barry's always been detestable, and Hank hits on that in this episode (in his usual way), but you could sort of feel for him in the way you might feel bad for any lost soul, but it's impossible to pity him in any way this season, and I think Hader's hitting all the right notes.

In this last episode where he describes
SpoilerShow
how he would handle Sally's show being cancelled
was somehow funny and absolutely horrifying at the same time, simply because of how uninterested he was in explaining it and how he thought who he was explaining it to would be all a-ok with it.

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Re: Barry

#38 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon May 23, 2022 2:19 pm

Huh, I always thought the show's most interesting accomplishment was in separating Barry's harmful behavior from a simple diagnosis of sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder, in that he absolutely channels emotion, identity, and other complex personality qualities that do not fit that pat and categorically-pleasing-to-the-observer diagnosis. Instead, the show universalizes some of these states and also demonstrates his other qualifying immoral behaviors and problematic rationalization processes as separate from a black-and-white other'ing. Forcing the audience to relate to and also diminish the value in complexity in favor of measurable harm is an appropriate and audacious charge. Maybe I need to revisit the show's first two seasons, as this could be wrong, but if it is then the only thing I like about it is Hank.

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Re: Barry

#39 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon May 23, 2022 3:59 pm

The real surprise for me this season is at just how well it is picking apart it’s own trajectory, by introducing new characters integral to scenes that were really just transitionary points in the plot of that particular episode. It’s through their perspective you not only get a sense of Barry’s trail of destruction, but merely a hint of just how bad it’s going to possibly be for everyone.
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Reintroducing the soldier who stood with Barry after his first kill and subsequently shot in the face, as an FBI agent was incredibly potent drama not even undercut by how funny his disdain for the job the police are doing (the modernization of Keystone Kops tropes quite funny in it’s own).

And even more for Annabeth Gish’s character. Completely shocked when she shot her son in the car. Fuches’ apparent need for revenge (I’m not sure if that’s his objective, Stephen Root said himself the guy is likely not sure what he’s doing) on Barry already accruing collateral damage of tragic proportions.

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Re: Barry

#40 Post by cdnchris » Mon May 23, 2022 6:20 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 2:19 pm
Huh, I always thought the show's most interesting accomplishment was in separating Barry's harmful behavior from a simple diagnosis of sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder, in that he absolutely channels emotion, identity, and other complex personality qualities that do not fit that pat and categorically-pleasing-to-the-observer diagnosis. Instead, the show universalizes some of these states and also demonstrates his other qualifying immoral behaviors and problematic rationalization processes as separate from a black-and-white other'ing. Forcing the audience to relate to and also diminish the value in complexity in favor of measurable harm is an appropriate and audacious charge. Maybe I need to revisit the show's first two seasons, as this could be wrong, but if it is then the only thing I like about it is Hank.
You're definitely not wrong and I agree with what you say. I realize now I'm over-simplifying my relationship with the character and aspects of this season, maybe to avoid getting "spoilery" outside of one plot point. My calling him a sociopath was also incorrect as how he is portrayed is far more nuanced as you said, but the season does push the darker side of the character and this ends up running the risk of alienating audiences and losing any goodwill they've thrown towards him. I don't know what you've seen of this season, if anything, but Barry is going through something, which could be a form of depression, and it seems to be borne out of his desire to be a better person and do what he thinks is the right thing, maybe even atone for past wrongs, but good intent aside his actions are, well, not good and they can be very off-putting. I can't sympathize with him much this season, if at all, more because it comes down to "consequences of one's actions."

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Re: Barry

#41 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon May 23, 2022 6:52 pm

Yeah that's the ambitious line this show has been toeing, and not always successfully in my eyes, but you're really selling me on giving the show another shot by that bifurcated audience-alienating description. I often find art works fascinating that weigh objectively observable, unavoidably-sobering consequences with our inherent empathy, by watching lonely characters' desperate attempts to messily engage with the world on subjective moral terms inebriated by narcissism and mental illness. It takes the intention vs action argument, complicates it, and forces us to lean into the murky waters- a reminder of why we often need to simplify things to conserve energy, but also why we need to practice engaging in this discomfort to humbly see human beings as just as multidimensional as we are, even if we assign a prognosis on their dignity and worth throughout our viewership and cement it by show's end. I believe this kind of art is the best the medium can offer to save us from the path of antisocial judgment we're on as a society, just by inviting us into the discomfort we avoid through impulsively-estranging dehumanization of the triggering persona, even if that's ultimately the honest and fair-minded place we arrive at throughout this processing, with our morality's influence tangled up in philosophical relationships to determining value in other souls. It's the consideration piece that's key, the process, the growth we do and identity we reaffirm during these difficulty trials that are rich and worthwhile. Just hearing you describe your reaction to it and enduring the challenging engagement is so heartening and gets me excited to do the same- inevitably likely arriving at the same place! I'll probably cue up the show later, but might need a refresher since I haven't watched the show since season two ended forever ago, and barely recall anything that happened outside of that one impressive episode Hader directed.

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Re: Barry

#42 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue May 24, 2022 10:43 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 1:54 pm
In this last episode where he describes
SpoilerShow
how he would handle Sally's show being cancelled
was somehow funny and absolutely horrifying at the same time, simply because of how uninterested he was in explaining it and how he thought who he was explaining it to would be all a-ok with it.
Absolutely, and there's something simultaneously tragic about this entrenched trauma-based anti-social logic, and disturbing to the point of justly alienating us from a person who is so far gone and harming others as a result of his solipsistic disorders. I'm finding this season to be the best yet so far- particularly Winkler's 'transformation', and how his own behavioral shift borne from a recovery-minded "gift of desperation" is being played out. The revelation that grand gestures like apologies don't alter the irredeemable permanence from past actions is a tough lesson to learn for anyone who's emerged from a clouded existence of reckless behavior to face their casualties, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here. Obviously Winkler hasn't harmed people in the way Barry has, but the show is doing something very interesting by drawing this parallel and saying something in the elisions about how none of us are really off the hook as we distract ourselves from our own transgressions through judging and resenting others. Look how that's worked out for Winkler. Brilliant

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Re: Barry

#43 Post by cdnchris » Wed May 25, 2022 1:14 pm

Yes, the Winkler subplot is probably my favourite aspect so far for the reasons you state, and how it could all work out for him and improve his life, at least on the surface, but the cost of it all is still brutal. I'm also finding the stuff around other past victims coming into the story showing great potential as well.

And going back to the scene between Sally and Barry, yes, he's so out of touch with the reality of the situation yet I still liked the detail about how he's still aware enough of what he's done that he does ask her for permission to comfort her, instead of just going in there.

I liked the first season well enough, probably in the same way I liked the first season of Breaking Bad in that I saw potential, but I don't think I was completely won over until that nutty episode in the last season where Barry had to kill the martial arts champion; that was just one of the wildest, most surreal things I had seen on TV. But I feel this season has definitely made sticking with it worth it, and I think everything that has come before works better in retrospect.

Another detail I noticed after revisiting the first two seasons when episode one of this season first aired (I watched it and then realized I had completely forgotten what happened in the previous episodes because it had been 3 friggin' years since the second season ended) is how my views on the characters have changed. There was a willingness to give Barry the benefit of the doubt and like the guy in some way, but every character around him was kind of detestable or felt phony, but now that dynamic has completely changed, where my empathy has shifted to everyone else except Barry.

Though Hank has always been pretty awesome.

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Re: Barry

#44 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed May 25, 2022 1:27 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:14 pm
And going back to the scene between Sally and Barry, yes, he's so out of touch with the reality of the situation yet I still liked the detail about how he's still aware enough of what he's done that he does ask her for permission to comfort her, instead of just going in there.
That’s a great observation- which just makes everything even more complex and thwarts an easy diagnosis.

The other aspect that feels like a call-back to the beginning of season one is how the show is meditating on (without expressing any overstated ideas about) our nature as ‘performers’. There’s a satirical element to how Barry lands his parts with authentic expressions that are interpreted as method acting (and likewise, this ignites Winkler’s own career resurgence this season), but it goes deeper than that. Barry needs to work, ostensibly not for financial means but for a way to block out the noise of his mental state- he needs purpose, and must don a costume to do that. Sally puts on an act too, that’s shattered during her messy and honestly expressed speech where she makes sounds unlike any I’ve heard in popular media! But she also puts it on with Barry, shielding herself from the truth of his red flags (clearly mirroring a DV relationship, as her costar recognizes immediately- thankfully bypassing a cheap shot at magnifying the irony, instead seeing the reality behind these patterns and prioritizing the empathy one human being feels for another). Even NoHo Hank and his partner put on performances which run in friction with their own preferred narrative of a happy love life together. This is a show about people struggling to cope with the raw vulnerabilities inside- their core beliefs, past transgressions, loneliness and self-determined pathologies of fatalistic alienation. It’s getting richer by the hour.

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Re: Barry

#45 Post by swo17 » Wed May 25, 2022 3:21 pm

The detonator app stuff was almost as good as KITH's droppage sketch

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Re: Barry

#46 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed May 25, 2022 3:31 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:21 pm
The detonator app stuff was almost as good as KITH's droppage sketch
Ha, I was reflecting on that skit too while it was happening- perhaps due to the commitment to absurdist internal logic there. "Sounds like it worked!"

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Re: Barry

#47 Post by cdnchris » Thu May 26, 2022 2:37 am

swo17 wrote:The detonator app stuff was almost as good as KITH's droppage sketch
Hank allowing all permissions when installing it on Barry's phone hilariously went against all common sense, and then his user name for it gave me one of the biggest laughs of the season so far.
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Re: Barry

#48 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 26, 2022 8:05 am

cdnchris wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 2:37 am
swo17 wrote:The detonator app stuff was almost as good as KITH's droppage sketch
Hank allowing all permissions when installing it on Barry's phone hilariously went against all common sense
It’s like how he and all his guys seem to go to lengths to openly mention that they are sheltering heroin, including when in peril, which goes against all common sense in failing to use a code word or shy away from admitting their dealings aloud and makes me laugh every time. Yes it’s old hat to make the seasoned professionals amateurish, but this show pulls it off in clever little ways

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Re: Barry

#49 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun May 29, 2022 10:53 pm

Tonight’s episode was perfect.

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Re: Barry

#50 Post by swo17 » Mon May 30, 2022 4:51 pm

SpoilerShow
Was that a Twin Peaks music cue during Fuches' short-lived change of heart?

I thought the episode had a bit of a weird rhythm to it. There was less Hank than usual, and his lines felt a little more like someone parodying his character than how he would normally speak and behave. When well employed, I relish the device of killing a main character to establish how much of a threat a new heavy is. I guess they half went with that and half stopped themselves, which made it less surprising when the cyclists bungled the hit, and also makes me not particularly worried for Barry by the cliffhanger. I guess the more pronounced comic tone helped with that as well. These are minor complaints though--it was a highly entertaining episode

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