Yes, you have to adopt the right approach: something that works for Andrei Rublev would most likely be completely wrong for GWTW. And if I'd applied the same approach to The Snorkel (a fun but decidedly minor Hammer thriller) that I did for one of Krzysztof Kieślowski's more complex and challenging films, or indeed vice versa, I suspect eyebrows would have been raised on the part of the commissioning label. Basically, you have to think of your audience, and I was pretty sure that the typical purchaser of one of Indicator's Hammer boxes wouldn't have wanted something excessively analytical and scholarly, whereas a film like Blind Chance pretty much demands it.dustybooks wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:42 pmProbably fair. I've only heard maybe one Casper commentary and I did find him quite irritating, as I believe is his generalized reputation. I admit that Behlmer does basically play the Robert Osborne game but I have to admit I somewhat enjoy that kind of chatter, even if it isn't especially scholarly. (And in the case of GWTW, I think it fits well -- while I love the film for all of its schlock, I don't know that any of its deeper themes are especially interesting, whereas its chaotic production most certainly is.)
Who Gives Good Commentary?
- MichaelB
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I love how Kino Lorber has hired Alex Cox to speak over many of the westerns they've recently acquired. He's just fabulous on his own films and the works of others.
Someone above mentioned Kurt Russell. I love the commentary he did with Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale on Used Cars. The three balance each other incredibly well, with Zemeckis being the one in awe at his chutzpah or chuckling at things he hadn't seen in years, Gale providing the facts, and Russell asking both of them some very insightful questions and providing his own amusing anecdotes. Pretty much the model commentary.
Someone above mentioned Kurt Russell. I love the commentary he did with Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale on Used Cars. The three balance each other incredibly well, with Zemeckis being the one in awe at his chutzpah or chuckling at things he hadn't seen in years, Gale providing the facts, and Russell asking both of them some very insightful questions and providing his own amusing anecdotes. Pretty much the model commentary.
- MichaelB
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Having exhausted his own films, I'm delighted that John Waters has been hired to do commentaries for others, because it's close to his perfect medium. I really wish someone would get the rights to Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! off the Russ Meyer estate and hire Waters to do a commentary, because it's pretty much inconceivable that he'd say no to something that he famously regarded as "beyond doubt the best movie ever made, and possibly better than any film that will be made in the future."
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I can't think of a more schizophrenic commenter than William Friedkin. Sometimes brilliantly lucid, sometimes maddeningly dull, he vacillates between extremes from film to film, and he makes nutty claims like saying that DVDs look better than celluloid. His commentary on Anchor Bay's DVD of The Guardian (it was not ported over to the Blu) might be the craziest; he discusses being attracted to the material because one of his sons was abducted by his live-in nanny(!)
- brundlefly
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:55 pm
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Very excitedly almost-ordered a copy of Used Cars just to hear how Ken Russell and Robert Zemeckis might interact for a couple hours.beamish14 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:09 pmI love how Kino Lorber has hired Alex Cox to speak over many of the westerns they've recently acquired. He's just fabulous on his own films and the works of others.
Someone above mentioned Kurt Russell. I love the commentary he did with Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale on Used Cars. The three balance each other incredibly well, with Zemeckis being the one in awe at his chutzpah or chuckling at things he hadn't seen in years, Gale providing the facts, and Russell asking both of them some very insightful questions and providing his own amusing anecdotes. Pretty much the model commentary.
- Maltic
- Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:36 am
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Top 10 longest feature-length solo commentaries:
1. Napoleon (Cuff, 332 minutes)
2. Dr. Mabuse the Gambler (Kalat, 270)
3. A Brighter Summer Day (Rayns, 237)
4. The 47 Ronin (Martin, 223)
5. Seven Samurai (Jeck, 207)
6. Celine and Julie Go Boating (Martin, 193)
7. The Leopard (Cowie, 185)
-- Red Beard (Prince, 185)
9. Kwaidan (Prince, 183)
10. Tokyo Olympiad (Cowie, 168)
Corrections welcome.
1. Napoleon (Cuff, 332 minutes)
2. Dr. Mabuse the Gambler (Kalat, 270)
3. A Brighter Summer Day (Rayns, 237)
4. The 47 Ronin (Martin, 223)
5. Seven Samurai (Jeck, 207)
6. Celine and Julie Go Boating (Martin, 193)
7. The Leopard (Cowie, 185)
-- Red Beard (Prince, 185)
9. Kwaidan (Prince, 183)
10. Tokyo Olympiad (Cowie, 168)
Corrections welcome.
- MichaelB
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
That all looks highly plausible, but it's interesting that number ten is only 168 minutes long given how many three-hour-plus films are out there. But it's one thing for a three-hour-plus film to exist and quite another to persuade someone to talk (hopefully) intelligently over its full length!
Mind you, going solo isn't necessarily the best option - I get the impression that there's a pretty universal consensus that Peter Cowie's commentary for The Leopard (Criterion) is inferior to the BFI equivalent by David Forgacs and Rossana Capitano. Which isn't surprising, because Forgacs and Capitano are specialists in a way that Cowie (for all his qualities) isn't - in fact, has Forgacs ever done anything outside his comfort zone of Italian cinema?
(The phrase "comfort zone" wasn't remotely intended to be dismissive, as Forgacs is one of my absolute favourite commentators and I wish he'd do more - but he's so good precisely because he sticks to his areas of professional research expertise.)
Mind you, going solo isn't necessarily the best option - I get the impression that there's a pretty universal consensus that Peter Cowie's commentary for The Leopard (Criterion) is inferior to the BFI equivalent by David Forgacs and Rossana Capitano. Which isn't surprising, because Forgacs and Capitano are specialists in a way that Cowie (for all his qualities) isn't - in fact, has Forgacs ever done anything outside his comfort zone of Italian cinema?
(The phrase "comfort zone" wasn't remotely intended to be dismissive, as Forgacs is one of my absolute favourite commentators and I wish he'd do more - but he's so good precisely because he sticks to his areas of professional research expertise.)
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- dekadetia
- was Born Innocent
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I recall his two Exorcist commentaries being a side-by-side testament to this schizophrenia; lucid and informative on the theatrical cut, blandly describing the onscreen action for "The Version You've Never Seen." At the time I wondered if this was some kind of show of a disdain on his part for the recut version, but further commentaries have demonstrated that indeed, inconsistency is just the norm with him.
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
That reminds me of a funny story I heard about one commentary track. I want to say it was for a mob-related film based on a real-life figure - I'm not 100% sure which one, but regardless, whoever they got 1) refused to reign in his language and 2) made wild accusations about everyone portrayed in the film. The producer sent the commentary transcript to the studio, and sure enough, they returned it all marked up in red (which is kind of amusing in itself - it probably looked like Sonny Corleone after his stop at the toll booth). The producer freaked out because it was close to the deadline and the studio was more or less asking for a lot of dead air. I forgot how they got around it.MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:37 pmThat all looks highly plausible, but it's interesting that number ten is only 168 minutes long given how many three-hour-plus films are out there. But it's one thing for a three-hour-plus film to exist and quite another to persuade someone to talk (hopefully) intelligently over its full length!
- MichaelB
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I've never had this issue with a commentary I've commissioned/edited, but I have had to vet archival interviews for potential libel - especially the British Entertainment History Project ones, as they were designed to be bluntly honest career overviews that weren't originally intended for publication. In the vast majority of cases, both the interviewee and the people he/she's talking about are long dead, so it's not really an issue, but I did have to look up all of Bryan Forbes' associates during his ill-fated time as EMI's production head to make sure that they were no longer with us. (If you want a defining example of a full and frank interview, here's the unexpurgated version).
As for your mafia commentary, this reminds me of subtitling The Valachi Papers recently, where I'd double-check the spellings of names and couldn't help but notice that it mixed real-life mafiosi with clearly made-up names whose spellings I had to guess. It was pretty obvious why: the made-up names represented real-life people who were still very much alive at the time, and while lawsuits were unlikely to be a problem, ending up "marked up in red" might have been.
As for your mafia commentary, this reminds me of subtitling The Valachi Papers recently, where I'd double-check the spellings of names and couldn't help but notice that it mixed real-life mafiosi with clearly made-up names whose spellings I had to guess. It was pretty obvious why: the made-up names represented real-life people who were still very much alive at the time, and while lawsuits were unlikely to be a problem, ending up "marked up in red" might have been.
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- ianthemovie
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Indeed, Waters' commentary for Mommie Dearest is pure pleasure to listen to, and arguably improves upon the film itself. (“You can just watch the whole movie and look at Joan’s eyebrows from beginning to end and only focus on that, and it becomes a true art film.”)MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:13 pmHaving exhausted his own films, I'm delighted that John Waters has been hired to do commentaries for others, because it's close to his perfect medium. I really wish someone would get the rights to Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! off the Russ Meyer estate and hire Waters to do a commentary, because it's pretty much inconceivable that he'd say no to something that he famously regarded as "beyond doubt the best movie ever made, and possibly better than any film that will be made in the future."
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Che runs for over four hours.Maltic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:32 pmTop 10 longest feature-length solo commentaries:
1. Napoleon (Cuff, 332 minutes)
2. Dr. Mabuse the Gambler (Kalat, 270)
3. A Brighter Summer Day (Rayns, 237)
4. The 47 Ronin (Martin, 223)
5. Seven Samurai (Jeck, 207)
6. Celine and Julie Go Boating (Martin, 193)
7. The Leopard (Cowie, 185)
-- Red Beard (Prince, 185)
9. Kwaidan (Prince, 183)
10. Tokyo Olympiad (Cowie, 168)
Corrections welcome.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Isn’t it a different commentator for each part though?
- cdnchris
- Site Admin
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
Funny, I remembered it being two commentators as well but Jon Lee Anderson does both parts.
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
ianthemovie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:50 pmIndeed, Waters' commentary for Mommie Dearest is pure pleasure to listen to, and arguably improves upon the film itself. (“You can just watch the whole movie and look at Joan’s eyebrows from beginning to end and only focus on that, and it becomes a true art film.”)MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:13 pmHaving exhausted his own films, I'm delighted that John Waters has been hired to do commentaries for others, because it's close to his perfect medium. I really wish someone would get the rights to Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! off the Russ Meyer estate and hire Waters to do a commentary, because it's pretty much inconceivable that he'd say no to something that he famously regarded as "beyond doubt the best movie ever made, and possibly better than any film that will be made in the future."
I haven't heard Waters' commentary on Boom! yet, but I've read good things about it.
Francis Ford Coppola is another director who consistently delivers wonderful, hugely informative commentaries. I was so disappointed that Cotton Club Encore didn't have one.
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I've like to give a shout-out to Brandon Bentley's superb commentaries for several classic Hong Kong movies, including the Criterion edition of THE BIG BOSS.
- colinr0380
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
That reminds of that really nice recent episode of the BBC's Film Programme on Angela Allen which was packed full of those kind of anecdotes of behind-the-scenes goings on, especially surrounding her interactions with John Huston! They actually get Allen to read out her list of credits, imdb fashion, but mostly just to act as a backdrop to the conversation that it fades into rather than the be all and end all of things!MichaelB wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:35 pmSometimes people who originally participated in the film turn out to be disappointing, thanks to the inescapable biological fact that when you're dealing with what are sometimes very elderly people indeed, they may have limited or in some cases absolutely no recall of what it was like working on something that they made decades earlier. We've been lucky with the Indicator Hammer boxes in that there are still junior staff around (continuity supervisors, assistant directors, standby props chargehands) who have decent memories and anecdotes - continuity people are particularly good value as they were specifically paid to be observant, were on set throughout, and of course kept extensive notes - but the overwhelming majority of actors and directors are no longer with us.
(Covid-19 has also made filming such people extremely difficult, for reasons that hardly need spelling out.)
And that also reminds me of a quote by the late game critic John Bain (aka Total Biscuit) who, when asked about the ethics of people writing for the promise of the exposure that a prestige name organisation would provide to their career in lieu of proper remuneration for their work, replied something along the lines of "people die from exposure".
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- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
That's massively disappointing. I posted about this here, but I saw that premiere at the NYFF, and even with Maurice Hines and James Remar present, Coppola was more than enough in terms of introductory and Q&A comments.
In fact, I'm seeing now that the very same Q&A is actually included as a bonus, and if memory serves, Kent Jones had to cut him off after he tried cramming in as many Q&A responses is he could (i.e. rapidly picking out hands in the audience and answering them as succinctly as possible).
- Maltic
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
Yeah, good point.dustybooks wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:42 pmProbably fair. I've only heard maybe one Casper commentary and I did find him quite irritating, as I believe is his generalized reputation. I admit that Behlmer does basically play the Robert Osborne game but I have to admit I somewhat enjoy that kind of chatter, even if it isn't especially scholarly. (And in the case of GWTW, I think it fits well -- while I love the film for all of its schlock, I don't know that any of its deeper themes are especially interesting, whereas its chaotic production most certainly is.)
Casper and Richard B. Jewell might be worse offenders when it comes to gushing, though it's been a long time since I heard their commentaries as well. And apparently, they've written useful books on the studio system.
"The Robert Osborne game"
I thought Che and GWTW were group efforts, which is why they didn't go in the top 10 (+ I overlooked a few other roadshow pictures and director commentaries).
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
beamish14 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:17 pmianthemovie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:50 pmIndeed, Waters' commentary for Mommie Dearest is pure pleasure to listen to, and arguably improves upon the film itself. (“You can just watch the whole movie and look at Joan’s eyebrows from beginning to end and only focus on that, and it becomes a true art film.”)MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:13 pmHaving exhausted his own films, I'm delighted that John Waters has been hired to do commentaries for others, because it's close to his perfect medium. I really wish someone would get the rights to Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! off the Russ Meyer estate and hire Waters to do a commentary, because it's pretty much inconceivable that he'd say no to something that he famously regarded as "beyond doubt the best movie ever made, and possibly better than any film that will be made in the future."
I haven't heard Waters' commentary on Boom! yet, but I've read good things about it.
Francis Ford Coppola is another director who consistently delivers wonderful, hugely informative commentaries. I was so disappointed that Cotton Club Encore didn't have one.
I have a copy of Boom(!) and enjoy Waters' commentary as entertaining in of itself, he made be lol more than once. However, if one wants informative details on Boom's filming locations, shooting schedules, funding, script, etc this is not discussed by Waters beyond the most casual passing references. I will give credit where it is due and Waters does say in his commentary that the biography on the Liz-Dick relationship/media frenzy, "Furious Love," does provide those details (and having just read the book now I am glad he name-checked it, if only for its detailing of Boom's filming of which I knew nothing previously). Waters' Boom commentary provides many of his observations about how Boom influenced him and Divine both off and on screen, and that alone should be a reason to listen to his commentary.
- MichaelB
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
This does not come as a surprise, but it's not the kind of thing that I'd listen to a John Waters commentary for.
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Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I had very mixed feelings about Cox's commentary on my favourite western, High Plains Drifter. There are too many statements of the obvious and most of the rest is taken up by comparisons with other westerns, particularly Italian ones (of which he is, of course, an expert). His comments did prompt me to check out Django The Bastard which supposedly had a similar plot.
I would have preferred more detailed analysis of High Plains Drifter itself and its unique merits. He keeps saying “I would have cut this scene” and doesn’t seem to care much for the supporting cast. Incredibly, he says of the three villains “Two of the brothers are so similar-looking anyway… it’s just a mish-mosh of stereotypes”. Um, Anthony James has one of the most distinctive faces in movie history!!! He knows Buddy van Horn is the stunt coordinator but doesn’t seem to realise that he’s also Clint’s stunt double so his comment that he “looks almost like he could double for Eastwood” is pretty risible, especially as he was presumably cast as Marshal Jim Duncan because of that very resemblance. (Or maybe Cox was joking.)
I've just finished Indicator's Columbia Noir #2 set and Nora Fiore's commentary on Tight Spot is an informative, lively and witty treat. Imogen Sarah Smith's commentary on Framed is good too.
- willoneill
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:10 am
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
La Belle Noiseuse (240 min) has a feature-length commentary by Film Historian Richard Suchenski. Haven't listened to it yet though.Maltic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:32 pmTop 10 longest feature-length solo commentaries:
1. Napoleon (Cuff, 332 minutes)
2. Dr. Mabuse the Gambler (Kalat, 270)
3. A Brighter Summer Day (Rayns, 237)
4. The 47 Ronin (Martin, 223)
5. Seven Samurai (Jeck, 207)
6. Celine and Julie Go Boating (Martin, 193)
7. The Leopard (Cowie, 185)
-- Red Beard (Prince, 185)
9. Kwaidan (Prince, 183)
10. Tokyo Olympiad (Cowie, 168)
Corrections welcome.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
I'm very fond of that one, which maintains exactly the kind of back-and-forth dialogue with the actual film that I think is the essence of a good commentary. I haven't heard her one for Indicator's The Criminal Code yet, but I'm very much looking forward to it.Robin Davies wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:32 amI've just finished Indicator's Columbia Noir #2 set and Nora Fiore's commentary on Tight Spot is an informative, lively and witty treat.
- aox
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
- Location: nYc
Re: Who Gives Good Commentary?
And, he isn't pleased about it if I recall correctly. I don't think he liked the film(s).
And I second Coppola. His commentaries are fantastic. Especially Godfather 3 which is essentially a strong yet humbly honest defense of the film and what he was trying to accomplish.