UHD and HDR in General

Discuss North American DVDs and Blu-rays or other DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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EddieLarkin
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Re: Pitch Black

#26 Post by EddieLarkin » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:11 am

MichaelB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 8:29 am
And I also, with only the rarest exceptions (Blade Runner, unsurprisingly, being one) don't upgrade to UHD if I already own the film on BD - although I'm justifying Jaws on the grounds that my BD was a review checkdisc.

(I have rather fond memories of that review, as it's the only time I've ever had anything rejected by Sight & Sound. I can see why - in a desperate attempt to write something original about that film, I compared it to the then concurrent theatrical release The Turin Horse with a straight face and divined a surprising number of parallels, but it was considered a little too whimsical, and so the final piece was a lot more conventional.)
A policy I would recommend ditching. I can understand it when we're talking about films that share the same 4K master between an old BD and the UHD (Easy Rider, Goodfellas), and thus we really only have the HDR to properly upgrade to (and in the case of some films, such as Goodfellas, the HDR is minimal to non-existent).

But most catalog releases on UHD use brand new transfers that have not been seen on home video. Indeed some are the first instance of a film to use a more modern transfer at all. Take Casino for example, if one were to ignore the UHD because they already have the Blu-ray, they'd be sticking with an old DVD era master which was produced for this 25 year old film's 10th anniversary! The UHD on the other hand uses a brand new transfer that is simply astounding.

Jaws, 2001, American Psycho, The Big Lebowski, It's a Wonderful Life, Scarface, The Blues Brothers, The Shining, Gremlins, The Elephant Man, all use brand new transfers that would be a huge upgrade over any old BD release even if they were merely being re-released on Blu-ray, let alone UHD!

I suspect upcoming titles like the 4 recently announced Hitchcocks and the Kubricks coming from WB and Sony, will all be brand new too.
tenia wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:12 am
EddieLarkin wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:59 am
the grain on Blade Runner for example is much finer than any grain I've seen on a BD
Blade Runner's UHD is poorly encoded though, so I'm wondering if your impression is indeed because of finer grain or because the chroma noise makes it look like it.
It's clear that despite the chroma noise, the image still has ultra fine grain and is still a whopping great leap over the Blu-ray in terms of definition.

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RitrovataBlue
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#27 Post by RitrovataBlue » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:01 pm

The Blade Runner UHD is beautiful. The detail in the models/exterior sets is just extraordinary. It’s truly one of the biggest upgrades on the medium. I’ve seen the film at least a dozen times over the years but this felt like seeing it for the first time.

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swo17
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#28 Post by swo17 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:09 pm

But it's only UHD for the "final cut," correct?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#29 Post by EddieLarkin » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:11 pm

Unfortunately, yes.

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MichaelB
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Re: Pitch Black

#30 Post by MichaelB » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:37 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:11 am
A policy I would recommend ditching.
Nope, I'm entirely happy with it. I'm not made of money (colossal understatement right now) and buy very little physical media these days.

alacal2
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#31 Post by alacal2 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 am

As a '42-incher' all this talk is making me feel a little - ahem - under-powered! I'm unlikely to be able to afford to upgrade much in the near future and wonder how many others are in the same position?

flyonthewall2983
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#32 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:24 am

Bought a 65" TCL a few weeks ago. I have only been watching streaming stuff in 4K as I don't have a UHD player yet. If there is a dedicated thread to that I apologize (have been using my phone for internet since I can't use my computer with the tv just yet).

The most impressive titles I watched were Blade Runner 2049 and Interstellar which were incredible to see on my old tv but the clarity in this time even surpassed the theatrical experience.

I have some older titles too. Paramount had a sale for 4K titles on VUDU and among them I bought Hunt for Red October and Clear and Present Danger. Red October was a bit more dynamic (the scenes in the submarines and water particularly).

The two disappointments so far are Die Hard and Heat which were way too dark. Heat particularly.
Last edited by flyonthewall2983 on Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#33 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:20 am

Being too dark is a common complaint about HDR (ironically).

Basically with SDR, TVs have long been capable of exceeding the brightness of the inherent grading of SDR (100 nits), thus offering plenty of headroom to increase the luminance of what's on display, which is pretty critical if one is viewing in a light room.

But with HDR, the opposite is true. The images are often graded to a level of brightness far in excess of what any 4K HDR TV is capable of (1000 nits and 4000 nits are common, and even 10,000 nits is used by Sony, whereas HDR TVs can range anywhere from 300 to 1500 nits. At least 540 is needed to reach Premium Certification). Meaning the TV has to operate at its maximum brightness output by default, with no headroom available to account for room conditions. In other words, many HDR grades will really suffer if watched in anything but a pitch black viewing environment.

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swo17
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#34 Post by swo17 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:58 am

So in your opinion, is something like Die Hard not too dark? (I ask in part because it appears to have recently gone OOP)

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EddieLarkin
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#35 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:17 am

I've watched it via UHD in 100% light controlled conditions, and no I would not describe it as too dark. But it clearly is a bit darker than previous iterations, deliberately so (it is an entirely new scan/grade). It just means watching in properly dark conditions is all the more important for this particular disc, moreso than HDR in general. The upgrade in range and highlight detail and superior colour definitely make it the best version available, though it doesn't really offer much of a resolution bump (presumably due to the nature of the lenses and film stock used).

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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#36 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:00 pm

Heat looked way darker and I watched both with everything else completely off in the middle of the night.

I find I am having mixed feelings about motion smoothing. I watched The Irishman with it on and enjoyed it quite a bit. Some other things were way too jittery but I like it for more recent videos in native 4K quality.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#37 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:15 pm

I don't do streaming so haven't seen Heat, so whether this reasoning applies or not I can't be certain, but there is another reason why many HDR grades can look incredibly dim on a lot of TVs despite them not actually being any dimmer compared to the BD version.

A lot of films are mastered in HDR to very low "HDR" levels, completely intentionally, but whilst using very high nit capable grading monitors. A good example is Goodfellas, which is probably the disc most accused of being overly dim in HDR. It was mastered on a 4000 nit grading monitor, but its average light level is only 60 nits, and its peaks only go as high as around 250. So technically HDR, but just barely.

The problem is that many TVs only "see" the 4000 nit value that is embedded in the data. And so the TV thinks it needs to tone map 4000 nits into its own capabilities, which may only be around 500 nits. So the 60 nits of actual light level is mapped down by a factor of 8, making the whole film impercetibly dim. Something like this may be happening with Heat.

It is not a fault with the grading itself, but essentially a bug between the data and the TV. The only way to fix it is to use a TV that has an option to not tone map the film but instead hard clip above a certain nit level, something I think only Sony and Panasonic sets do.

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RitrovataBlue
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#38 Post by RitrovataBlue » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:42 pm

I've been watching UHD discs for about a year now, and have added around 100 or so to my collection in that time. On my 55" TCL, not a single disc has looked "too dark," although I do use my TV's "brighter" setting (not "brighter" colors, just higher backlight) in general since it's less bright than many other HDR/DV sets. Die Hard is certainly not too dark. UHD allows for much deeper and more detailed blacks/a wider range of dark shades in general, which allows a more natural representation of dark spaces. That said, I haven't watched any of the more notorious "too dark" discs - Goodfellas and Harry Potter 6 are often described this way.

I don't recommend watching anything with "motion smoothing" turned on.

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Finch
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#39 Post by Finch » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:19 pm

I've already sounded out david hare and cdnchris, but wanted to hear still what other folks on here are using for UHD playback.

So here is the thing: ideally, I want a one-stop solution to play UHD and my Blu-Ray and DVD collection. The BDs and DVDs cover all regions so whatever I end up using (living room player or PC; don't use Mac) has to be able to bypass region locking. We currently have our PC linked to the TV so the TV is acting as the computer monitor. I am aware that we still need to buy a UHD compatible TV screen so it'll be a while still before I can watch UHD discs properly.

Chris said DVDFab and AnyDVD are used to unlock the discs.

In the worst case scenario, I could get two players, one for UHD and one for BD and DVD to cover for the region locking on the older formats, but again, preferably I'd find a PC drive or a standard player that takes care of all three formats. Has anyone had luck on that front?

EDIT: I'm based in the US now, so would prefer to buy domestically but will import if need be.
Last edited by Finch on Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#40 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:50 pm

I don't know anything about UHD playback on PC, but wouldn't trust PC software at all, especially when it comes to HDR and DV implementation.

If you go with a player, the Pansonic 820 is the best UHD player on the market and a fantastic upscaler for 1080p content. A multi region modded one of those would do the trick:

https://www.mrmdvd.com/catalog/product_ ... ts_id=1904

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Finch
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#41 Post by Finch » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:24 pm

Thanks Eddie, I've bookmarked the player. Have you heard negative feedback about HDR during playback on computers?

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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#42 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:24 pm

That player looks awful tempting. I'm limiting my search to whichever ones have SACD playback though, and Sony is the only company making them aside from Oppo I believe.

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Matt
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#43 Post by Matt » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:12 am

Oppo ceased production a couple of years ago, no? I guess there might still be some late-model players knocking around out there.

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skilar
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#44 Post by skilar » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:35 am

Oppo did cease production, but I’ve used their UDP 203 for the past several years and love it. It can be region unlocked for DVD and Blu-ray. You need to purchase a small chip and install it, but it’s very, very simple to do.

The bad news is the players fetch a hefty price now. They weren’t cheap when they were in production, and now they go for even more. That said, it’s an excellent player.

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Finch
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#45 Post by Finch » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:24 am

After further research, I've decided to go for a Sony UHD and BD multi region player UBPX800M2 or one of the LG machines once we are ready to upgrade to a new TV.

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senseabove
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#46 Post by senseabove » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:49 pm

I'm bubbling with some friends for New Years and have been tasked with calibrating their new Roku HiSense UHD TV, which is bog standard out-of-the-box, at the moment. Any good guides for the moderately savvy but new to UHD? Or at the least, any special things to consider with UHD beyond "turn all the smoothing/special modes off and turn most settings down a few notches" that is usually the case for new TVs?

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cdnchris
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#47 Post by cdnchris » Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:42 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:I don't know anything about UHD playback on PC, but wouldn't trust PC software at all, especially when it comes to HDR and DV implementation.

If you go with a player, the Pansonic 820 is the best UHD player on the market and a fantastic upscaler for 1080p content. A multi region modded one of those would do the trick:

https://www.mrmdvd.com/catalog/product_ ... ts_id=1904
UHD on PC is ridiculous. I I bought an LG drive and not only would the software that came with it (Cyberlink) not play the discs, the drive wouldn't even read them. So I had to go through a whole process with different software to get the drive to read discs and then play them back (the files anyways). And then, like you suggested, HDR/DV is questionable. Also, some discs won't even load, like Arrow's Flash Gordon. It's a crapshoot and anyone looking to PC to playback UHD discs I'd recommend against it.

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#48 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:39 pm

I'm not sure where to post this but here are some of the titles that Warner Bros will be releasing in 4K UHD later this year:

Image

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Pavel
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#49 Post by Pavel » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 pm

The Battle Is Bigger in IMAX finally comes to UHD!

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: UHD and HDR in General

#50 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:15 pm

I prefer the alternative title Select Footage Filmed with IMAX Cameras

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