The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

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MichaelB
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#26 Post by MichaelB » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:52 am

R0lf wrote:It's kind of, extremely, annoying that they are still doing single releases but DVD only.
This is the way things are increasingly heading as margins in the physical-media business become ever tighter.

The BFI is by no means the only label to be making increasing use of the limited-edition model, as it's the most effective means of gently persuading people that paying a reasonable amount for a BD edition once in a while is better than always waiting for a big discount a few months down the line. Better for the label, granted, but presumably we'd like it to stay in business?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#27 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:08 am

Further government cuts may be having an effect.
BFI wrote:We are in urgent discussions with the Minister with a set of proposals to mitigate some of the impact of these cuts. If these proposals aren’t achievable then the BFI will have no choice but to stop valuable front line activities and reduce support for partner organisations.
Are any parties advocating increased funding for the culture/arts sector, or the BFI in general?

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MichaelB
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#28 Post by MichaelB » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:38 am

The Greens have pledged an extra £500 million for the cultural sector, but they're obviously not going to get elected.

The basic problem is that the 1997-2010 Labour government froze the BFI's grant, which by 2010 was the equivalent of cutting it quite substantially - and by that stage they'd already cut their operations to the bone (as I recall all too vividly: budgets became tighter and tighter throughout the nine years I was there). So when the post-2010 government cut the grant twice, that really hurt - in fact, I'm a casualty of the first cut, albeit a voluntary one.

Not least because the bulk of the grant goes into things like staff salaries and the continued maintenance of the BFI National Archive - most other departments are expected to pay their way, and BFI Video Publishing is no exception (indeed, it's notionally one of the main income generators). And I suspect this new limited-edition BD followed by separate DVDs model is one of the methods that they're adopting to try to maximise upfront income.

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#29 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:32 am

FEAR it is now (changed from the previously billed LA PAURA), & STROMBOLI becomes STROMBOLI, LAND OF GOD (English translation of the Italian version's title STROMBOLI, TERRA DI DIO), strictly speaking the International version (106mins, in English) goes by the plain title STROMBOLI...

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#30 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:08 pm

Hmm, maybe the BFI should run this stuff by the forum first. It's not a big deal but an English translation of the Italian dub title, rather than just the standard English title, makes even less sense than La Paura did...

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domino harvey
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#31 Post by domino harvey » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:24 pm

That makes it look like a fourth film, Land of God, is included

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#32 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun May 31, 2015 3:50 am

Revised cover, apparently... And they've dropped the comma from Stromboli, Land of God , a propos of Dom's point, I guess...

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#33 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:39 pm

Full specs;
ROSSELLINI & BERGMAN COLLECTION (Limited edition numbered Blu-ray Boxset)
Films by Roberto Rossellini

In 1950, one of Italy's most celebrated filmmakers, Roberto Rossellini, and one of Hollywood's greatest screen stars, Ingrid Bergman, came together to make the classic Stromboli Land of God. On that production, they embarked not only on an extraordinary artistic collaboration but also on an affair which would send shockwaves throughout the film world. By 1954, their real-life relationship was crumbling, and films such as Journey to Italy appeared to echo reality.

This numbered, limited edition brings together three of Rossellini and Bergman's greatest collaborations Stromboli Land of God, Journey to Italy and Fear in newly restored presentations, with extensive extra features including Rossellini's rare 1952 feature film The Machine That Kills Bad People, Francesco Patierno's 2012 documentary The War of the Volcanoes, and Isabella Rossellini's homage to her father, My Dad is 100 Years Old (2005, dir. Guy Maddin).

Stromboli Land of God Italy, USA | 1950 | 1.33:1 | black and white | Italian language with English subtitles | 100 mins
Journey to Italy Italy, Fr | 1954 | 1.33:1 | black and white | English language | 86 mins
Fear Germany, Italy | 1954 | 1.33:1 | black and white | English language | 83 mins

Special features

Newly restored presentations
Bergman & Magnani: The War of the Volcanoes (Francesco Patierno, 2012, 54 mins): documentary charting the scandal of the Magnani-Rossellini-Bergman love triangle
Ingrid Bergman at the National Film Theatre (Chris Mohr, 1981, 37 mins): archival Guardian interview
Living & Departed (Tag Gallagher, 2013, 19 mins): a visual essay by film scholar Tag Gallagher
Viaggia in Italia (Roberto Rossellini, 1954, 83 mins): the alternative, Italian cut of Journey to Italy
Journey to Italy audio commentary with filmmaker and academic Laura Mulvey (2003)
Alternative Journey to Italy audio commentary with film scholar Adrian Martin (2007)
My Dad is 100 Years Old (Guy Maddin, 2005, 18 mins): Isabella Rossellini's playful tribute to her father
The Machine That Kills Bad People (Roberto Rossellini, 1952, 85 mins): a fascinating film that reflects Rossellini's transition from neo-realism to the more poetic films he made with Bergman
Fully illustrated booklet featuring new writing by Tag Gallagher, Adriano Aprà, Laura Mulvey, Peter Bondanella and Paul Fairclough, and full film credits

Optional English hard-of-hearing subtitles | BD50 x 3 | 1080p | 24fps | PCM mono audio (48k/24-bit)
So it seems they're only offering the Italian version of STROMBOLI (i.e. STROMBOLI, TERRA DI DIO), or are they?...
Stromboli Land of God Italy, USA | 1950 | 1.33:1 | black and white | Italian language with English subtitles | 100 mins
Also it's VIAGGIO IN ITALIA, not 'VIAGGIA'...
Last edited by ellipsis7 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#34 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:24 pm

Certainly seems that way, and it explains the titling on the box. Indeed, I should have seen it coming:
Criterion's new restoration of Stromboli was created from two sources: the Cineteca di Bologna's recent 2K restoration of the Italian-language version of the film and a 35mm print from George Eastman House, which was transferred in high-definition on a Spirit DataCine and restored by Criterion. The original monaural soundtrack was remastered at 24-bit from the 35mm optical soundtrack positive of the George Eastman House print and restored by Criterion.
I had thought Cineteca di Bologna had restored both versions but as the Criterion booklet confirms they only managed the Italian. Let's just say I'm very happy to be region free!

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#35 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:38 pm

That figures, the BFI must have only licensed the Cineteca di Bologna restorations, so not those put together by Criterion...

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#36 Post by Orlac » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:46 am

Hopefully Journey to Italy will look better than the Criterion - which had boosted whites.

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GaryC
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#37 Post by GaryC » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:46 pm

The Italian version of Stromboli has been passed PG (running time 95:46) with a cut of 12 seconds. As per the BBFC: "Cuts were required to remove all sight of a ferret being set on a rabbit to kill it. The cuts were made in line with BBFC Guidelines and policy in relation to animal cruelty." This was presumably the same cut as the Second Sight DVD (though that was 10 seconds) and it may account for the cut of unknown length made when the film was passed for cinema release in 1950.

I have a recording of Stromboli from the last time the BBC showed it which I haven't yet watched (though I'd seen the film before on the BBC). I don't know if this footage is in the BBC's copy or not.

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#38 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:58 pm

This footage is included on the Criterion versions uncut... While no advocate whatsoever of 'animal cruelty', and being a lifelong animal lover, I nevertheless genuinely believe the sequence is an essential part of the film, and has to be seen in the context of its time. After all, millions of human animals had just been slaughtered in WWII. That's the whole point. Did the BBFC censor the rabbit shoot in Renoir's RULES OF THE GAME, or indeed the extended tuna fishing sequence later in STROMBOLI itself?... This is retrospective political correctness gone to extremes...

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#39 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:07 pm

In my experience the BBFC bends over backwards not to censor animal cruelty if they think they can get away with it (hence their interpretation of the 1937 Animals Act that clean kills are OK), but their hands are ultimately tied by the law.

You can make every philosophical argument under the sun, but when you're up against legislation that explicitly bans the distribution of footage of cruelty to animals that was carried out specifically for the film, there's not a lot you can do if those appear to be the facts on the ground.

This is the annoying thing about the Animals Act, the 1978 Protection of Children Act and the 2008 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act - they assess contentious footage purely in terms of what it records, irrespective of context or artistic merit.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#40 Post by Jonathan S » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:24 pm

GaryC wrote: I have a recording of Stromboli from the last time the BBC showed it which I haven't yet watched (though I'd seen the film before on the BBC). I don't know if this footage is in the BBC's copy or not.
It's definitely there - just before the one hour mark. I don't have anything to compare it with, but it looks uncensored as there are several close-ups of the ferret attacking the rabbit. And I recall the film was shown in a weekend early morning slot often reserved for children's programmes!

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ellipsis7
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#41 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:39 pm

An interesting issue arises, checking the BBFC site, there are 3 versions of STROMBOLI passed, the 1950 RKO version, a 1998 Second Sight Films video version, and the current BFI Italian submission... Was the international version (including this footage) transmitted in 1988/89 by the BBC as part of their then Rossellini retrospective ever certified at all?... Interesting!...

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#42 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:46 pm

As the title (and indeed date) rather gives away, the 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act only applies to cinema films.

I wonder if anyone's tried arguing that it shouldn't apply to video because video isn't mentioned anywhere in the text?

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GaryC
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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#43 Post by GaryC » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:30 pm

ellipsis7 wrote:An interesting issue arises, checking the BBFC site, there are 3 versions of STROMBOLI passed, the 1950 RKO version, a 1998 Second Sight Films video version, and the current BFI Italian submission... Was the international version (including this footage) transmitted in 1988/89 by the BBC as part of their then Rossellini retrospective ever certified at all?... Interesting!...
I suspect the copy the BBC showed recently (on a Saturday morning, as Jonathan S says) was the same copy shown in 1990 on the BBC2 Film Club, which Radio Times advertised as being in its "complete, original form".

The commercial channels follow Ofcom's policy of showing a BBFC-certified version if there has been one for home viewing, but the BBC operates a general "taste and decency" policy and, since the Stromboli has always been an A or PG it's therefore suitable for daytime viewing. I suspect no one at the BBC has realised that the film contains potentially illegal material, otherwise they might have edited it. (They did edit a chicken being sacrificed by being burned alive when they showed Yeelen, the same cut that the BBFC had made.)

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#44 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:09 am

GaryC wrote:I suspect the copy the BBC showed recently (on a Saturday morning, as Jonathan S says) was the same copy shown in 1990 on the BBC2 Film Club, which Radio Times advertised as being in its "complete, original form".
The VHS off air recording I have from the BBC circa. 1989 is the complete international version of STROMBOLI as heralded in the video introduction by critic Gilbert Adair, who I believe did a series of to camera intros for the whole Rossellini season then... It was followed by an half hour documentary INGRID IN ITALY, featuring home movie footage from the shoot... The BBC must have held onto this STROMBOLI print, or the video master of its transfer from that time...

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#45 Post by TMDaines » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:45 am

Sounds like the presentation of Stromboli is a complete write off.

Fuck the BBFC. Absurd that all films have to be scrutinised for anything that might be in convention of the law. No other form of media has this nonsense.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#46 Post by Orlac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:02 am

That's because the law doesn't have such laws regarding, say, books and music.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#47 Post by TMDaines » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:15 am

Yes, which is utter nonsense.

The BBFC isn't blameless in all of this. Just listen to their podcasts, where they honestly believe that they provide a vital public service in protecting the vulnerable at the expense of everything else. It makes me cringe when they talk about their role being central to the enjoyment of film and spread this message in schools. They're a parasite and a censorship bureau; pure and simple.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#48 Post by Orlac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:24 am

Heck, I'm still annoyed about the pointless cuts they made to Tombs of the Blind Dead. Which was 10 years ago...

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#49 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:44 am

Orlac wrote:That's because the law doesn't have such laws regarding, say, books and music.
Well, there's things like the 1959 Obscene Publications Act, but it doesn't require pre-vetting in a way that the 1984 Video Recordings Act does.

As a parent, I don't have a problem with the notion of an official and authoritative classification body, but I'd much prefer it to be voluntary - basically, make everything a mandatory 18 and if they want a milder classification they can apply for one. And if there are legal issues, the distributor can take their chances just as a print publisher has to.

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Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#50 Post by Orlac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:54 am

These days, the cuts rarely matter, because you can just go and get the US releases.

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