The Lists Project

[therewillbeblus]

I'm not sure what the solution is yet, but I'm open to ideas.

(Moving the discussion here) Instead of scrambling to find a bandaid solution, I wonder if it makes sense to start the Musicals Redux project, which many people have expressed interest in. It would take us through the winter, and potentially make this variant-strained world a little brighter (as opposed to watching a bunch of Fassbinder movies, which I don't feel like doing right now either), and in that vast time period, conversations can occur about reconstruction/alterations to list projects -plus it would be one long one requiring less exhausting short-term efforts for the list-runner.

[swo17]

Would stretching each project out over a longer timeframe help reduce burnout?

[senseabove]

That's definitely an issue for me. Trying to orchestrate watching things for two lists as well as what I want to watch on my own as well as what's screening locally while also occasionally—*gasp*—doing something other than watching a movie... Well, the one-month list is the first casualty, especially if I'm anything less than very excited about it and don't already have a near-complete list.

Something like the CNW list will be very difficult for me to participate in, even though I am interested in it, as I'm pretty well starting from scratch: I've seen less than a handful of CNW films, and I'm only wild about one of those, but I've been wanting to explore it more and this would be a great reason to. However, to find 9 more films I want to list, at even a 50/50 hit ratio, means I'm not doing much else with my at-home movie-watching for that entire time period, and that's a difficult commitment.

Of the non-decade lists potentially coming up, I'm enthusiastically in for Fassbinder, Stewart, and Musicals, almost certainly in for Piccoli, and a definite pass on Kurosawa.

[Nw_jahrles]

I'm on a fixed income and can't afford to be renting/blind buying stuff to watch for each project. So usually my watch-list is compiled based on what I've seen/what I own/what is available on my streaming subscriptions. I found I wasn't able to watch as much Cary Grant as I wanted as the "Cary Grant Comedies" collection had expired on Criterion. As for Deneuve, I simply ran out of films and couldn't get to 10, but she also had a retrospective on Criterion that had some films removed that may have allowed me to get to 10.

I guess my point is maybe allowing for some flexibility (moving lists forward or back) for when big collections of a star/director's films are released on Criterion Channel (or elsewhere) might encourage people to participate knowing there is a bundle of films to start with/add to what they've seen.

[therewillbeblus]

I will submit a list for every project no matter what, though maybe a longer time span would be beneficial to make room for viewings and boosting enthusiasm. If there is only a handful of members who participate in every project as a personal rule, then it may be worth re-evaluating after a longer period (whether taking a break from projects altogether, opting for one with more outspoken passion behind it by current active members i.e. Musicals, etc.). I feel like since COVID began, some members who were more active in both decade projects and short-term list projects have (understandably) disappeared or taken a backseat, and as more people come in and become active members, maybe we'll have a better gauge on investment and invested parties after the winter, when hopefully the world is doing better and some semblance of 'normal' life has resumed (again)

[domino harvey]

After consulting with my fellow mods and reading through the suggestions here and in the Deneuve thread, here is the gameplan:

Starting immediately, there will be a six month moratorium on all non-decade lists. All previously scheduled lists are indefinitely off the schedule.

This will be followed by a vote (tracked with username but non-public, so probably via SurveyMonkey) for our next list, with the understanding that if I don't receive at least 15 pledges of participation for any one possible list (giving the minimum of ten votes a 50% buffer), I'm shuttering the non-Decade lists, or at least my participation with them. You will be voting for lists you would participate in, not lists you're interested in or lists for people you've heard of. Whether we want to continue with voting from amongst the previously planned lists or choose from new lists or a mix can be settled as we get closer.

We will schedule upcoming/next up lists one list at a time, with some advanced warning, rather than years into the future.

The amount of time previously devoted to all non-decade lists will be doubled (ie a Star List would go from five weeks to two and a half months).

Ideas on how best to track and/or hold users accountable will be considered as well. That said, this will never devolve into anyone not being able to submit a ballot for any list or me chasing you down or shaming you publicly if you don't submit after you say you will. But potentially if you pledge to participate in a list and you don't, then you lose the ability to participate in future selection processes

[Matt]

Starting immediately, there will be a six month moratorium on all non-decade lists. All previously scheduled lists are indefinitely off the schedule.

But seriously, having done my share of lists project corralling and tabulation, I absolutely get it. I idly wonder if there's a way of "outsourcing" the labor, like using Letterboxd or something.

[Rayon Vert]

That's unfortunate, even if I understand.

I've been pre-gaming Fassbinder for over a month. He's a director I hadn't gotten around to until 2014; I started in on his filmography (about 8 films in), then stopped, ironically, when I got rounded-up into participating in this site's list projects, which has guided my viewing habits ever since. So in the past month I revisited those 8 or so films and have been in the process of working through chronologically a good chunk of his films (right now mid-way into the very enjoyable Eight Hours Don't Make a Day, definitely not a downer!). (I would have asked for a longer schedule than just a month, though, given that just going through Berlin Alexanderplatz will take me a minimum of two weeks.) It's unfortunate this decision gets made because of a star-list that didn't have much going for it in the first place. I certainly didn't vote for it, and don't really intend to participate in star-lists as such. I guess I'll be doing Fassbinder on my own because I'm not interrupting that twice!

It makes sense to me to ask members to pledge participation so we have an idea initially of if a project is going to work out, rather than doing surveys where people, like in the Criterion Film Club, just vote on a film they think is interesting or that they like the most without necessarily having any intention of participating in the discussion (which is why I never vote in those). So maybe asking explicitly to vote for something(s) they intend to participate in, not just "want to see happen".

[domino harvey]

This decision was a long time coming, poor Deneuve can’t take all the blame. Participation has been low in a few lists lately. And yes, we’ve moved beyond interest surveys into pledges for lists that are likely to generate participation.

But remember RV, you can of course still share all of your newly crystallized thoughts in the RWF filmmaker thread!

[Rayon Vert]

Yeah but sounds kind of lonely and less motivating honestly, especially given that doing write-ups doesn't come easily for me and I'll be a little more shy doing it alone in that context. Don't mean to throw a self-pity party, though. In any event my list will be ready when an RWF list project goes through!

[domino harvey]

It very well could still be the next list!

[senseabove]

I like the changes otherwise, but it's a shame about the moratorium... I too was really looking forward to Fassbinder, as he was one of the first Brand Name Directors I got into and revisiting him years on should be interesting, both for finally filling in some gaps and for revisiting things I didn't have much context for at the time. And I'm with RV that the list project's providing parameters and some semblance of a round table usually gives me motivation for write-ups that I find difficult to muster otherwise.

What heights have we fallen from? What was the average list intake during what I gather is some Lists Project golden age that was before my time here?

[DarkImbecile]

... doing write-ups doesn't come easily for me and I'll be a little more shy doing it alone in that context....

Given that you do more analytical writing on the actual contents of films than 98% of the active members of this forum, let me be the first to encourage you to keep flexing that muscle both in and beyond the List Projects, and assure that your posts are always read and appreciated even if they don't always garner direct responses.

[domino harvey]

What heights have we fallen from? What was the average list intake during what I gather is some Lists Project golden age that was before my time here?

On the whole it’s at about 40-60% less participation than when we started

[DarkImbecile]

Still, even the unsuccessful projects are still interesting to follow and contain some great observations and recommendations; the Shakespeare List thread had nearly 200 posts and remains a resource for anyone poking around in that sub-genre, and some members found surprising returns from the Deneuve thread as well. It's certainly disappointing when people don't participate after they've indicated they will — *coughmyselfcough* — but it doesn't totally negate the overall value of these projects for many of us, and we definitely appreciate the substantial work that you and swo17 put into them, domino.

[Rayon Vert]

Thanks DI. I'll consider posting in the RWF thread going forward.

[Rayon Vert]

Just throwing this out there. But wouldn't it be possible instead of the moratorium, to just have a quick vote and say: OK, next would be Fassbinder, who's up for this and pledges participation? Then if there's enough votes, we go ahead with that one, and so on and so forth. (Also, if this is an option for a non-mod member, and if someone would be willing to give me a crash-course on tabulating, I wouldn't mind doing it for that project, at least helm or co-helm that part of it.)

[swo17]

Everyone feel free to take all of your list itches to the decades side, which I will never end as long as there's at least one other person in it

[soundchaser]

I know personally speaking I’d like the Musicals list to happen, but spreading it out would definitely help, at least personally speaking — I’ve been less able to watch things lately (for time and energy reasons), and I want to hit a certain threshold of films seen before voting. Plus write up some of my favorites/new stuff to the extent that I feel capable.

[zedz]

I like the changes otherwise, but it's a shame about the moratorium... I too was really looking forward to Fassbinder, as he was one of the first Brand Name Directors I got into and revisiting him years on should be interesting, both for finally filling in some gaps and for revisiting things I didn't have much context for at the time. And I'm with RV that the list project's providing parameters and some semblance of a round table usually gives me motivation for write-ups that I find difficult to muster otherwise.

What heights have we fallen from? What was the average list intake during what I gather is some Lists Project golden age that was before my time here?

When I was doing the last round of the decades lists, we’d reliably get dozens of submissions, but this was before we got into all the other lists running concurrently.

I think there’s an element of list fatigue in play, so having a moratorium and more space between them is a good idea.

There’s no reason why a bunch of interested parties can’t have an informal extended watching session of Fassbinder, say, in the meantime, recorded in his filmmaker thread. I started working through his oeuvre years ago and wrote everything up, but gave up about halfway through. Way overdue to finish it off.

[Rayon Vert]

That would work for me. Upsides would be not having to feel stressed about meeting a deadline, and having to skip over all the extras on the discs.

[Matt]

All right. In the spirit of many a Fassbinder film, we are going to play this out even if it kills us or we all loathe each other in the end. I am volunteering, for one time only, to dust off my spreadsheets and coordinate and tabulate a Fassbinder list. See my post elsewhere in the Lists Project subform kicking things off!

[Matt]

With the Fassbinder list complete and a rousing success in terms of discussion and list submissions, how are we feeling about another mini-list project? Do people need a winter project or a nice break instead?

It might be fun to celebrate a 2022 centennial, and I’d be happy to tabulate again if the scope is modest. Judy Garland (39 credits per IMDb)? Doris Day (45)? Pasolini (28 as director)? Russ Meyer (35 as director)?

Christopher Lee, with 211 feature film credits, is an absolute no from me.

[domino harvey]

I’d submit a Garland or Day list, but keep in mind that even a full musicals list could only attract nine ballots last time

[senseabove]

For me, the dueling list schedule is what limited my participation a lot, so I'd motion to keep at least the last two months (i.e. one month and orphan rescue round) of the decades lists free of competition so I and other listers can focus on that. I already have a list of 40+ 60s films I want to watch or rewatch.

Pasolini—whose 60s work I'd intended to watch for that list anyway—is about the only one of those I could reasonably participate in, and even then I'd prefer it extend past the end of the 60s list. Otherwise, I would prefer to wait until the 60s list is over to start another director/star list at all.