The Catherine Deneuve List

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domino harvey
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The Catherine Deneuve List

#1 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:40 pm

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THE CATHERINE DENEUVE LIST
{July 30 - September 9)


Compile a list in ranked order of at least ten and up to twenty films starring Catherine Deneuve and submit them to me, domino harvey, by the deadline. Documentaries (except for Je veux voir) or clip-appearances do not count, all other films of any length featuring Deneuve are eligible.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#2 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:52 pm

I thought I was pretty well-versed in Deneuve but a peek at Letterboxd reveals I've only seen 27 of her films out of over 170-- clearly I have some work to do!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#3 Post by Never Cursed » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:58 pm

Admittedly a good chunk of those seem to be documentaries or EPK-type extras stuff - I counted ~132 credited features on her Wikipedia page and 140 on her IMDB

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#4 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:10 pm

That makes me feel better-- I've seen about 20%, I'm practically an expert!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#5 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:18 pm

Also I discovered there's a French film remake of the UK TV series Absolutely Fabulous and Deneuve has a cameo. I haven't seen it but to cast Marie Gillain as the plain daughter is already a fatal error

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#6 Post by Nw_jahrles » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:29 pm

The frustrating thing about exploring the works of actresses such as Deneuve who are also sex symbols is roles where they are barely utilized other than to seemingly be pretty or be the wife etc. Un Flic is an example and I had another recent experience with Les Creatures. So regardless of the quality of the movies, I can’t include them because Deneuve has clearly been given more to do elsewhere.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#7 Post by domino harvey » Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:11 am

Well, I've just done a complete run-through on LB (wherein I realized I've actually seen 28 Deneuve films-- so, again, clearly an expert) and there are 56 unseen Deneuve films with English subs that I either have access to or already have, so let's hope that number goes up by project's end!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#8 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm

Kicked off my furthering education with Indochine (Régis Wargnier 1992), which was a very, very bad film. I'm sure a good film could be made by the French about the effects of their colonization, but I haven't seen one yet and this sure as hell isn't it. The film exists only to flatter Oscar voters as it models itself after award epics to a comical degree (and it worked-- the movie won Best Foreign Film and Deneuve got an unearned Oscar nom in what can only be attributed to a draught year of prospects). In particular, the film is consciously modeled on the Killing Fields but unlike that film with Haing S Ngor commanding the focus away from Waterston, this movie can't seem to let go of its white protagonist and we are still treated to a lot of pointless cutaways to Deneuve in the second half's turn even as the plot requires the film to follow her adopted daughter Linh Dan Pham's journey to becoming a communist folk hero. But Deneuve is a non-entity here. About ten years too old for the role for most of the film and then unchanged for when she's about ten years too young, this is a film of self-perpetuating vanity. Nothing about Deneuve is interesting here, and yet she fascinates all. About her or any other character, we learn nothing. Only Jean Yanne comes out of this unscathed by virtue of being bombastic enough of a presence to light up his screentime (Not that I think this is an amazing perf, but how in the world did André Dussollier win the Cesar for Un coeur en hiver over Yanne here? Like, what?). It occurred to me while watching this that while she's in a lot of movies I like, I don't really think much of Deneuve as an actress or, to the earlier point, a sex symbol. But looking over the films I haven't seen yet, there are a lot of weird projects that seem removed from the vanity of this one, so I'll hold out hope for some better discoveries!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#9 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:40 pm

domino harvey wrote: I don't really think much of Deneuve as an actress or, to the earlier point, a sex symbol.
Interesting you say that, as I've always found Deneuve pretty but not sexy or seductive, despite her sex bomb reputation. This actually makes her perfect for stuff like Repulsion, where it helps create this beautiful but remote and sexually damaged woman, attractive but not inviting or alluring. Or Belle de Jour, where that pristine beauty contrasts starkly with the perversions on display and just screams for mud to be thrown all over that aristocratic reserve.

Not sure I buy her in Bardot type roles.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#10 Post by zedz » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:41 pm

Just so you don't feel too lonely, domino. . .

Deneuve is an actress I've never found especially impressive (she's most effective for me when she's called upon to be creepily bland / catatonic), but she's managed to find her way into a bunch of great films, so I'm sure I can scrape together ten of them for this project. We seem to be in the same ballpark in our viewings. I count 26 features I've seen (that I can remember!)

Here are some films I can recommend / will likely be voting for:

Repulsion (Polanski, 1965) - The definitive catatonic Catherine performance, and a film where she's as good as a great film.

Les Demoiselles de Rochefort (Demy, 1967) - Here she's reduced to one of the moving parts of one of cinema's most delightful dioramas. She's a lot more central to The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, but I prefer this film. She's well-cast as a fairy-tale play-doll in Donkey Skin, but it's not one of Demy's best, and A Slightly Pregnant Man is not just Demy's worst film, but an all-time stinker.

Belle de Jour (Bunuel, 1967) - Well, duh. Another film where Deneuve's callowness is a perfect match for the part. She has a meatier role in Tristana, and it's probably a more impressive performance, but this is a better match to her talents.

And then there's a big gap during the 70s and 80s when Deneuve was a huge star and taking relatively safe roles. I can't find much to interest me in these years (Techine's Le Lieu du Crime stands out, I guess, but I'm rather lukewarm on Techine), but in her mature years she started taking on more challenging roles with more interesting directors and did some of her best work. Maybe the most remarkable thing about Deneuve's career, given its duration and her consistent negotiating power, is how many interesting directors she's managed not to work with. Compared to Moreau, or Huppert, or Binoche, it's a rather dull CV.

The Convent (De Oliveira, 1995) - She's also in the great I'm Going Home, but this is more her film, and it's marvellously creepy and intense.

Time Regained (Ruiz, 1999) - She's only one facet of this stunning adaptation, but she's perfect in her role. She previously appeared, more centrally, in the knockabout Genealogies of a Crime for Ruiz.

Pola X (Carax, 1999) - Carax's most difficult and flawed film, but I think the flaws lie more with the conception of Depardieu's character. The rest of the film, including Deneuve's bits, are hypnotic, challenging and intriguing.

Dancer in the Dark (Von Trier, 2000) - I don't really like this film, but I think Deneuve might be the best thing about it, and she's a far cry from her traditional glamour roles. Considering that my big issue with the film is that it's striving for a gritty realism but just comes off as contrived, it's a tribute to Deneuve's skill that she actually pulls off her small part of that task better than anybody else.

Lines of Wellington (Sarmiento, 2012) - Deneuve's presence in the film is really neither here nor there. Like a lot of the vast, starry cast, she seems to be there mostly in order to sign a physical petition of support for the late Raoul Ruiz, but that's a good cause, and it's a good film.

The Truth (Koreeda, 2020) - Lesser Koreeda, but a fine film nevertheless, and Deneuve is great in a self-mocking performance as a grand-dame of acting gently bulldozing through everybody around her.

I'll need to watch Un Flic (Melville, 1972) again. I remembered it as a lesser Melville, but lesser Melville would likely still earn a place in this top ten.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#11 Post by knives » Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:12 pm

I’ve seen a similar number to everyone else here and am also coming to a similar realization of really only liking a handful of performances. I actually think she’s far better nowadays than in her ‘60s heyday. For example the Ozon collabs and A Christmas Story are sure to make my list, but I doubt I’ll be bothered to place any Buñuel films. This is also finally making me watch any Techinè film.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#12 Post by zedz » Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:57 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm
It occurred to me while watching this that while she's in a lot of movies I like, I don't really think much of Deneuve as an actress or, to the earlier point, a sex symbol.
zedz wrote:Deneuve is an actress I've never found especially impressive
knives wrote:I’ve seen a similar number to everyone else here and am also coming to a similar realization of really only liking a handful of performances
Why are we doing Deneuve again? Did a bunch of people who weren't intending to participate vote for her or something?

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#13 Post by Rayon Vert » Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:20 pm

The Téchiné films with her I liked best were Hotel des Amériques and Les Voleurs, but they're just good, not great - although Ma Saison préférée is probably the most-lauded in her films with him, and where her performance is key.

(p.s. I didn't vote for this!)

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#14 Post by Never Cursed » Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:45 pm

zedz wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:41 pm
Dancer in the Dark (Von Trier, 2000) - I don't really like this film, but I think Deneuve might be the best thing about it, and she's a far cry from her traditional glamour roles. Considering that my big issue with the film is that it's striving for a gritty realism but just comes off as contrived, it's a tribute to Deneuve's skill that she actually pulls off her small part of that task better than anybody else.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is something that was discussed in the Cary Grant List thread, but I guess I'm wondering if people plan on voting for films as a whole or the strength of the relevant performance in specific. Which of the two I decide upon would definitely influence my choices/ranking (for instance, I hopefully would not be caught dead voting for Les Créatures as a film, but I could see myself voting for Deneuve's performance in it, given that it's one of the few points of real interest in the film).

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#15 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:58 pm

zedz wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:57 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm
It occurred to me while watching this that while she's in a lot of movies I like, I don't really think much of Deneuve as an actress or, to the earlier point, a sex symbol.
zedz wrote:Deneuve is an actress I've never found especially impressive
knives wrote:I’ve seen a similar number to everyone else here and am also coming to a similar realization of really only liking a handful of performances
Why are we doing Deneuve again? Did a bunch of people who weren't intending to participate vote for her or something?
She received the most votes in the poll, beating our runner up and frequent co-star (who we will be giving this treatment to in the spring of next year) Michel Piccoli by one vote

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#16 Post by zedz » Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:51 am

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:58 pm
zedz wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:57 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm
It occurred to me while watching this that while she's in a lot of movies I like, I don't really think much of Deneuve as an actress or, to the earlier point, a sex symbol.
zedz wrote:Deneuve is an actress I've never found especially impressive
knives wrote:I’ve seen a similar number to everyone else here and am also coming to a similar realization of really only liking a handful of performances
Why are we doing Deneuve again? Did a bunch of people who weren't intending to participate vote for her or something?
She received the most votes in the poll, beating our runner up and frequent co-star (who we will be giving this treatment to in the spring of next year) Michel Piccoli by one vote
So somebody must like her!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#17 Post by knives » Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:59 am

Rayon Vert wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:20 pm
The Téchiné films with her I liked best were Hotel des Amériques and Les Voleurs, but they're just good, not great - although Ma Saison préférée is probably the most-lauded in her films with him, and where her performance is key.

(p.s. I didn't vote for this!)
That’s good to know. Just because it’s at the library Changing Times is going to be my starter.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#18 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:52 am

knives wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:12 pm
I’ve seen a similar number to everyone else here and am also coming to a similar realization of really only liking a handful of performances. I actually think she’s far better nowadays than in her ‘60s heyday.
I'm in a similar camp, at least in terms of how Deneuve has evolved as an actress to give more dense and detailed, yet equally enigmatic perfs, using that "bland/catatonic" facade from the earlier part of her career that zedz mentions. Her character in A Christmas Tale is easily her most interesting and also ironically perhaps her least diagnosable for intent. The way she and Amalric mirror one another with abnormal-intimacy says more than any concrete psychological formulation ever could. One of the best, and appropriately messiest, demonstrations of complex family dynamics ever, in large part thanks to her- the scene on the bench and the finale at the hospital in particular speak volumes in their nebulous refusals to grant expected catharsis.

Other list contenders:

Et Satan conduit le bal: An early Deneuve role finds her as one half of a pair of lovers-on-the-run who are much less sympathetic or capable of reframed moral validation than we expect from protagonists!

Kings and Queen: A small role, but hysterical stable partner to help facilitate fun banter with Amalric, as his inpatient therapist. Everyone should just see this movie now regardless- if we ever do an Amalric list (my suggestion) this would come in at number one.

In the Courtyard: Not top-tier Pierre Salvadori, but Deneuve is pretty great here for reasons in-step with her own development of self-actualization. I don't know how to say it differently than I did in that writeup: Deneuve gives another dependable late-life perf offering of wisdom in honest reflection, emitting natural comic chops that have only strengthened with age as she laughs at life with youthful wit and flexes the protective factors for her loneliness.

I've also seen ~27 films of hers, weird

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#19 Post by domino harvey » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:55 am

zedz wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:41 pm
And then there's a big gap during the 70s and 80s when Deneuve was a huge star and taking relatively safe roles.
You may have overlooked the film where she plays Marcello Mastroianni's dog!

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#20 Post by knives » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:02 am

Or Don’t Touch the White Woman which is a delightfully strange one.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#21 Post by knives » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:48 pm

Well, this is off to an awkward start with a bust or a film and a great one that Deneuve isn’t really notable in.

Changing Times is not really the best introduction to Téchiné. The opening title suggests that the producer is embarrassed of the film and this too milquetoast even for those who find Lasse Halstrom too adventurous film is definitely worth being embarrassed by. It just floats by being the most generically French take on the multiple narratives narrative that everyone was doing at the time.

Far better is the Caesar nominee Standing Tall. This was surprisingly great occupying a narrative in a way to does not romanticize nor terrorize its figures and limits its melodramatic license to a few key points. This is an empathetic portrayal of a kid and system trying to do good by each other, but limited in their creativity and sense of purpose for success. This portrait of the child reformation system and at least one person who occupies it is wondrous for arguing for hope even if the ideal goal is unlikely to ever be reached.

Paradot gives an amazing performance giving ample room to sort of hate him, there’s no actorly attempts at sympathy, yet we are given enough insight to know him which arguably the harder and more worthwhile thing. This performance as well as the scripts’s handling of the character often feels like a corrective to Dolan’s Mommy which never really had a handle of who it wanted it’s lead to be. Bercot does not give us a good guy, but a human desiring to figure out what is good.

Since the purpose of watching this was Deneuve I should say something, but she’s the least interesting part here. In support her judge is one of a million examples in the film of somebody attempting to help Paradot but being limited in a variety of ways so that a decade of work shows little evidence of improvement. Deneuve’s reserved demeanor is useful for this character who remains something of an enigma giving the plot excuses for limiting the consequences of Paradot’s actions.

That actually leads into an element of the film I have reservations about, but which at least the film has the strength to tackle head on. I’m frankly not sure this film as well as similar films such as Mommy or My Life as a Zucchini could be made if the protagonist were as one character brings up black or Arab. Narratives about such characters are ghettoized into stuff like Les Miserables. The similar experiences across ethnic status of growing up in this system doesn’t seem to be able to be acknowledged except for poor, white, boys. Such characters of course deserve to have their stories told, but the same as being willing to have them be the leads in narratives stereotyped for other groups why not have he story of a girl going through this system? Surely there has to have existed at least one girl in history who had a drug addicted parent and anger issues.

Even that reservation, which again the film calls attention to, has me deeply loving this film which is the best example of this narrative I’ve seen.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#22 Post by senseabove » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:55 pm

Never seen any Desplechin, so for purposes of this list, would Kings & Queen or A Christmas Tale be a better first?

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#23 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:58 pm

A Christmas Tale has Deneuve's best perf period (plus she's a central character). However, Kings and Queen has Amalric's best perf ever, so you should really just bang-bang

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#24 Post by knives » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:12 pm

That’s a pretty bold claim especially for how iconic Repulsion is, though I’ll probably have Umbrellas as my numero uno, but I definitely agree to that delineation. Deneuve is so central to A Christmas Story and so good it seems like a obvious if you only have time for one choice.

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Re: The Catherine Deneuve List

#25 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:26 pm

Well I'm saying it's her best performance, not most iconic role. It's interesting you find that bold, since upthread you yourself said you only like a handful of performances from her and initiated the perspective for conversation that Deneuve is much better at acting now than in the 60s, and I wholly agree. Those two you mention will surely be on my list though and are certainly good perfs!

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