The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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colinr0380
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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#376 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:43 am

Casshern (Kazuaki Kiriya, 2004)

"We hurt others by our very existence. That's just the way we live. We need to learn to forgive. Need to realise that existence is to be shared. We're not just here to exist, but to find the strength to co-exist. It may start from something small, it may even seem impossible. But we must start from somewhere."

This is both a rather simple film and enormously elaborated upon in almost every aspect. It is the 'dark and gritty reimagining' of a 1970s anime TV show (and a 1993 anime film), which unfortunately I have not seen to contrast against. I am assuming that this film is doing the equivalent of turning Astro Boy into a genocidal maniac! I wonder how it was received in Japan? Eventually this film is as much to do with a very contemporary to 2004 anti-war message about the dangers of unnecessary warfare and ethnic cleansing coming back to bite the aggressor on the home front. We begin in a world where "after fifty years of war the Eastern Federation has beaten Europa's armies and taken control of the Eurasian continent. But pockets of resistance remain, threatening the new regime. The military mobilises again. Again families must lose their sons..." and then follow Dr Azuma and his family as they find themselves at the centre of the conflict and get torn apart by it and their conflicting responses to what is occurring.

Dr Azuma is doing research into 'neo-cells', which can regenerate body parts and hopefully will (instead of ending conflict) allow soldiers to replace any lost or destroyed body part with a new one, making fear of being crippled or mutilated a thing of the past, at least for those looking on and not experiencing it themselves. Whilst his presentation goes poorly he does get noticed by the ailing elderly General Kamijo, who rules the society, and afterwards gets approached by the man from the Defence Ministry who likes the idea as a replacement for armour (after all what is the point in protection when you could quickly replace body parts at a lower cost?). However Dr Azuma is really focused on doing his research because his wife is steadily losing her sight, and already is almost blind. So he enters into a deal with the Devil with the Ministry to gain access to a specialist laboratory and body parts no questions asked in order to speed up his research massively. In the meantime Dr Azuma's son Tetsuya has decided that he cannot stand by during a conflict and decides to go to war despite the protestations of Dr Azuma and leaving his new fiancee Luna behind to worry about him.

One year later Tetsuya is on the battlefield introduced ethnically cleansing a remote village. His commanding officer is delighting in getting another rookie soldier to shoot a faceless woman in the head, and is threatening to shoot him instead, when Tetsuya steps in to just shoot her anyway, which meets with the CO's approval. He is traumatised, which is not helped soon afterwards by picking up an orphaned baby that turns out to be attached to a hand grenade and being killed for his attempts to regain some humanity. Meanwhile Dr Azuma is deep in his research and has invited Luna's father, the armour specialist Dr Kozuki, to his lab to reveal his progress, leaving Luna to wait in the lobby. Tetsuya's mother Midori receives the news of his death on the battlefield, though not before having a brief reunion with him as a ghost.

This is all intercut with each other in a beautiful flowing rhythm, all building to the point where a deus ex machina literal thunderbolt comes out of the sky and strikes directly into the heart of Dr Azuma's protoplasmic body part gene pool in his laboratory. This 'somehow' is the magic ingredient that causes all of the body parts to knit themselves back together and come to life Frankenstein-style, as dozens of reanimated (and fully conscious) bodies rise out of the pool to come face to face with their creator. Most of them are immediately shot down by the military but a few manage to escape through the waste sewage pipes (that has a sea of bodies floating through it) to make their escape. This unfortunately (but beautifully) coincides with both Tetsuya's body being brought to the front entrance of the lab in a state procession and their mother arriving to view it. The mother is kidnapped by the 'Neo-sapiens', as they come to be called, and Dr Azuma pushes the mourning Luna away from the coffin, drags Tetsuya's corpse inside (all being watched over by Tetsuya's spirit begging him not to bring him back) and baptises him in the protoplasmic pool to bring him back to life. He then entrusts Tetsuya's body to Dr Kozuki and Luna to keep him safe and hide him away from the military (Dr Kozuki building him an armoured suit in the process, though the film pointedly destroys the iconic 1970s headpiece and dirties up the pure white suit of the figure with dirt and streaks of blood), so that he can go and save Midori.

That first half hour is so well constructed and just flows one situation into another, that it is a little disconcerting when the pace changes to a lower gear after the escape of the Neo sapiens and their trek through the wilderness to an abandoned castle that just happens to hold the remnants of a robot army within it. The Neo-sapiens start planning an all out war to destroy humanity entirely from that point (appropriating a very stylised swastika-esque flag as their symbol) and almost completely bring the society to its knees. There is a bit of political infighting as General Kamijo and his entourage are overthrown en masse by Kamijo's son. Unfortunately it is not going to end well for anyone involved, as tit-for-tat conflict destroys the entire world.
___

For all of its focus on action in the trailers for the film, this is very much a war drama and a film about family ties being tested beyond breaking point. The whole situation is created by Dr Azuma trying to save his wife's sight. The head of the Neo-sapiens is driven in his vengeance at first for the brutal treatment faced by the soliders shooting his brethren down during their re-birth and escape (being immediately betrayed by his 'father'), but who eventually learns that he has deeper reasons for vengeance. Our nominal hero, Tetsuya, takes on the name of Casshern ('guardian angel') after his own re-birth but is an incredibly flawed identification figure, having literally committed a war crime in his past and been involved in ethnic cleansing activities.

The society we are seeing being destroyed seems like a terrible war-like one, but at the same time the Neo-sapiens are the literal antagonists of the film, wanting to destroy everything and going on giant robot rampages. Neither side has the moral high ground, and its all a murky swamp of conflicted loyalties. The female characters are the more sympathetic ones with Midori, the kidnapped mother, herself touching the heart of the Neo-sapiens with the loss of her son perhaps fuelling her grief for the losses on both sides and begs for them to end the conflict, unsuccessfully.

Anyway the situation gets quite neatly and ironically tied up in the final revelations that:
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the Neo-sapiens were reformed out of the body parts of the rounded up, murdered and dismembered civilians from the distant "Eurasian Zone 7" location that Tetsuya committed his war crimes in. Which immediately adds an edge to the film of the individual war crimes being something that almost inevitably grows out of a wider political situation 'allowing' such a thing to occur. We even find out in an expansion of the earlier flashback that the faceless woman that Tetsuya shot was the wife of the leader of the Neo-sapiens, killed in front of him before he himself was shot. So no wonder that character was fuelled by blind burning hatred for much of the film especially against the, rather blithely clueless as to his backstory until those final moments, main character! Both the hero and villain were 're-born' but still have the legacy of their actions in their previous lives hanging over them. (A similar premise in a strange way to the Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren film Universal Soldier!)

And then we get the revelation by the son of General Kojima that his father has not just been using body parts created by war to meet his own ends, but had actually been (like Dr Azuma in many ways) actively fuelling the decades long conflict in order to provide the body parts that his researchers would have needed to try and find some way of prolonging his own life. Or as the son puts it: "using national policy to meet medical needs". That is a subplot that feels a lot like the ancient father-young daughter conflict in the later Prometheus where what seems to be a noble effort for the wider good turns out to have been a very selfish attempt to prolong a life beyond its natural span no matter who suffers instead.

That actually makes overthrowing the old General and his cabal not seem quite as callous as the bloody 'assassination at the dinner table' scene made it appear! But the son is not particularly acting in altruistic interests either, more just has reached a breaking point himself and has tired of his father's longevity!

Which are really the main themes of the film: parents and children. Children losing their parents. Children betraying their parents only to learn that their parents betrayed them a long time before, usually at the point of their birth. Parents unable to protect their spouses or children from violence. The noble hero being a war criminal pressed unwillingly into service as a saviour. The noble scientist being pragmatic to a selfish degree. The longsuffering wife and fiancee being able to do nothing but cry and die to provide a lesson in humility. For all its sci-fi garb, this is really a very thinly veiled film about war and war crimes and how it is impossible to maintain a clear distinction between violence committed 'over there' and back at home.
___

I remember this being an astonishing technical feat at the time, coming out a year or so after Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, and whilst a lot of the CGI has dated now everything is stylised to such an extent that it still feels strange and memorable. The CGI is really being used for any enormously wide shot (plus anything involving the giant robot army naturally!) and rather than having everything on a green screen 'digital set' there are actually a lot of built sets too, which perhaps tellingly are often the most beautiful and evocative parts of the film: the full of greenery garden which the blind mother is in at the beginning; Luna's armour specialist father's red-tinged home; the rusty brown of the Doctor Azuma's laboratory; the golden lobby that Luna falls asleep on the chair whilst waiting in; the black and white open forum area in the distant town in "Eurasian Zone 7" where the big fight scene gets set; the grand locations of lecture theatres and opulent dining rooms used for the political shenanigans and forcible transferences of power, and so on. That actually only emphasises more both the importance of those physical sets but also the colour scheme of the film where different areas get hugely contrasted together. There are a lot of moments where a number of different subplots occurring in different areas are being intercut with each other, and the quick back and forths but also that extreme change in visual looks seems to be trying to underline a kind of 'together but damningly separate' aspect to a lot of the action. I particularly get struck by the scene two-thirds of the way through the film which cuts between Casshern fighting against one of the Neo-sapiens Barashin in the black and white town setting, the yellow tinged exterior of the cattle truck, Holocaust style train that Luna and one of the other Neo-sapiens has been spirited away on in the interim (that is blue inside, the better to emphasise the clinical nature of this vehicle that is used to gather up civilians of particular ethnicities and cut them up into parts for people like Doctor Azuma (or purely just for Doctor Azuma's benefit?) to experiment upon); that is all overlaid by the speech occurring in another location of the new leader of the country declaring his new militarist intentions for his country, amping up the 'terrible evil' they face and preparing the nation for a fight like no other.

I also really liked that scene between Luna and Tetsuya on the way to the village, which itself keeps cutting between a tender discussion of the nature of tit-for-tat killing and their love for each other being powerless and a more intense and emotional take of the same scene, as if to suggest the emotions roiling away under the surface. This is a very 'busy' film, both visually and in the editing pattern where two or three scenes are happening simultaneously and commenting on each other by the way that are cut back and forth between to create a contrast, so it is very interesting to see just your standard young lovers moment being treated in exactly the same way.

There is a bit of a Russian brutalist feel to a lot of the visual designs, as well as a quite obvious nod to Fritz Lang's Metropolis in the moment of Tetsuya in the final fight against the giant clockwork robot at the climax involving trying to keep two hands of a giant clock from coming together in a nuclear detonation at midnight.
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Oh, and the inexplicably convenient deus ex machina thunderbolt that initially appears out of nowhere to bring life to the Neo sapiens eventually at the end of the film (in a beautiful moment that ties all the characters, from both sides of the conflict, together as one) becomes a (spoiler) beam of pure energy crossing the universe to thud into the protoplasmic pools of genetic material in the still not yet fully formed Earth. So we are apparently all descendants of those people who destroyed their world through conflict, in danger of repeating all of their mistakes over and over again in the same cycle. (Weirdly a bit similar to the surprise ending of Mario Bava's Planet of the Vampires!)
___
It is also quite a star studded production: Yûsuke Iseya had previously starred in Hirokazu Kore-eda's Distance and was the character who refused to choose their experience to inhabit in After Life before Casshern, and would go on the Memories of Matsuko and Takashi Miike's 13 Assassins after. He also even turns up Fernando Mereilles' 2008 adaptation of Blindness as the first victim of sight loss.

Kumiko Asô who plays Luna was the girl suspicious/jealous of Sadako in Ring 0: Birthday, was the lead in Kiyoshi Kurosawa's Pulse and was in Shohei Imamura's Dr Ikagi as well as his segment of the September 11 anthology film. Since she has been in Takeshi Kitano's Achilles and the Tortoise, Sion Sono's Love & Peace and provided voice acting work in anime films such as The Boy and the Beast, Wolf Children and the recent Mirai.

Akira Terao as Dr Azuma was a regular late Akira Kuroswa actor: he's the intransigent youngest son Taro in Ran; the main character "I" in Dreams and in Madadayo. He also starred in 1999s After the Rain, from a Kurosawa script. And so on all the way down the cast list with every actor having notable credits (e.g. Hidetoshi Nishijima who plays the usurping general's son later was the lead in Kiyoshi Kurosawa's Creepy and voiced one the main characters in Hayao Miyazaki's The Wind Rises.)

Kazuaki Kiriya himself has had a bit of a quiet time since Casshern, which was his debut film, only directing two further features so far. He directed the 2009 samurai drama Goemon based on a Robin Hood-style figure. And then in 2015 he surprisingly helmed the Morgan Freeman and Clive Owen starring Last Knights, although this was first film he was not also the writer, cinematographer and editor on according to imbd. These later films may be more fantasy than sci-fi but they certainly share with Casshern an interest in a fantastical location acting as giant metaphors rather than trying to be particularly believable as functional societies in themselves, as well as heroes who exist at around the upper-middle class level of society being the figures doing the physical fighting and trying to survive in wider almost irreconcilable conflicts between the high and low.

He was also married to pop star Hikaru Utada for a period in the mid 2000s and directed a number of her music videos from around the same time as Casshern (2001-2006) including Final Distance, Travelling, Hikari, Sakura Drops, Deep River, Dareka No Negai Ga Kanau Koro (Or "When Someone's Wish Comes True", the end credits song to Casshern), You Make Me Want To Be A Man, Be My Last, Passion and Keep Tryin'.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:09 am, edited 18 times in total.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#377 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:37 pm

Since Neon Genesis Evangelion is eligible, I'm wondering if anybody is interested in doing an informal club-like collective viewing of it, similar to what we did at the start of the year with The Young Pope. I watched it for the first time not that long ago (less than two years) but despite all the theorizing and thoughts on the internet, let alone referenced daily in my own home, I'd be curious about this board's opinions of the sci-fi applications to humanity on an episodic basis. The series has a lot to unpack, and I'll be revisiting it either way. Also, are there any blu-ray releases out there with English subs that are recommended (i.e. original music, no dialogue adjustments, unlike the Netflix version)? I know a set is coming out next year in the U.S. with some uncertainties on how definitive it'll be, though I'm region free if that helps.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#378 Post by Never Cursed » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:38 pm

That set will almost certainly have the Netflix dub on it - from what I gather, the original dub is a nightmare to license thanks in part to the original English cast being a mixed group of SAG and non-SAG actors (which incidentally is why at least one was replaced for the dubs of the films). There are several Region C Japanese blu-ray sets, with all lacking English subtitles except for one that probably does not have them, but there isn't much in the way of discussion I can find regarding this.

As for the series itself, it will make my list in the lower depths. I grew up with the show and I still have a lot of fondness for it, even if I am kind of worried that a full revisit would not improve my opinion.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#379 Post by knives » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:44 pm

End of Eva is going to be my choice to represent the series.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#380 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:54 pm

I might do that too or list both, but either way will revisit to see where the chips land. I'll be honest that seeing it for the first time at 30, after all the hype, didn't blow me away- though the film(/last two eps) really helped stress the philosophical themes with a purge like no other. With that said, I think I prefer the actual narrative pre-surreal ending, and would probably rank it higher if asked to choose right now between the two (which are actually one)

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#381 Post by Never Cursed » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:59 pm

I'm not sure how I personally feel about voting for it - I feel odd voting for the film by itself given how totally it depends on the series to make sense, but it's a worthy film.
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Maybe this is a product of having been exposed to it at an impressionable age, but the utter horror of the Third Impact is like nothing I've seen and would qualify it for a spot by itself. There is also the film's strange reflexivity and eye-poking attacks on the audience - it's certainly one of the few movies whose contempt for the presumed interpretations of the viewer (more of the series than the film) I feel is a positive rather than a negative

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#382 Post by knives » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:04 pm

Agreed on the contempt. When I finished my only response was that that was a harrowing way to call nerds out on their nonsense. It’s a genuinely disturbing presentation of that character type.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#383 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:19 pm

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What are you referring to specifically? The way Shinji avoids, and cannot connect to others, or even that he does choose to face it in the end only to get called "disgusting" anyways (which reminds us of the scene of him jerking off onto Asuka)? I think there's a lot of skewering here and there, but the final scene is so affirming to life in all its pain and there's a subtle recognition of growth, as he stops the strangulation, allows himself to cry, and embraces the dissonance between people as a challenge he's willing to sit with- the point of life really, instead of giving in to the easier path of just nothingness. I didn't think contempt was a primary motivator, but a realistic look at incel/weeb types that is uncharitable in ways but also empathetic to the challenge an introverted antisocial person with anxiety has when forced to participate and connect, to the point where it's a sci-fi dressed allegory for the way we're forced through developmental stages when we don't feel ready.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#384 Post by knives » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:27 pm

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I did not see that see as a recognition of growth at all, but rather his need to make himself the hero in all situations and sort of a real world replication of the we all love you seen from the end of the series. To the end he’s trying to see himself as the guiltless hero. Asuka knows the score though.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#385 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:40 pm

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It's incredibly ambiguous and the overwhelming feeling is a gut-punch where I initially didn't either. To be clear, I don't mean growth in the traditional sense of something measurable or even attainable, but a realistic reflection of our limitations that marks a moment of self-awareness and has the 'potential' for growth that he never had before with ignorance. By coming face to face with Asuka, who may "knows the score" but that's not as significant for him as "will maintain her aggressive personality regardless of your will," he is deflated but also aware finally and a step towards surrender to the lack of control over others that we all must learn, often through an emotional beating. I actually agree with most of your response but I guess I don't see this as rigidly negative towards Shinji. Part of him is trying to see himself that way but the stronger feeling seems to be a piercing discomfort with any other option, so a threat to his solipsism is tragic and also a form of healing. You could look at it either way, but I prefer to look at it both ways since the show is not about succumbing to a rigid focus in one direction and more about a holistic complex experience of social development. If the final moment was a pure sneer I'd absolutely hate the show, but as a partial one that references the process of sobering us up to slowly evolve humility, it succeeds.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#386 Post by bamwc2 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:15 am

knives wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:44 pm
End of Eva is going to be my choice to represent the series.
I saw the original movie more than a decade ago and remember next to nothing about it. I've also never seen any of the series, but The End of Evangelion is one of the few sci-fi films on my to-see list. Would I be able to understand it as a stand alone movie or do I need to be familiar with everything the preceded it?

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#387 Post by knives » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:47 am

It’s basically a reworking of the last two episodes of the series and officially a sequel to Death and Rebirth which covers the rest of the series. I’d say you could watch it with just a vague recollection of the series, but perhaps watching Death and Rebirth first would help.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#388 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:51 pm

Seeing it without the series for context is madness, it’s the climax of where the series has been building towards.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#389 Post by knives » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:28 pm

What, a gaggle of gory, good movies? Only mostly.

Color out of Space (dir. Stanley)
I know were supposed to say this is silly and fun because of the presence of Cage, but it's been weeks since I saw this and, you know what, this managed to terrify me to the basis of my soul and continues to haunt me. It’s almost like I had to laugh to remind myself it was just a movie. Stanley presents this vase otherness into the feeling of the movie with this breakdown in society. Everything just drips with this sad defeat that is scarier then any monster. There's a lot of overlap between this and The Void below, but I think Stanley is the one to really know that the feeling of fear is more effective in cinema without the images of it (for this same reason list qualifier Pontypool is so great).

Young Ones (dir. Paltrow)
Another great Elle Fanning movie. Has she ever been in a bad one?

She's a fairly minor character here to the point of it being a waste of casting though that works out fine in the big picture as the movie has a lot to pack in anyway. In reality this is a western that just so happens to set up the tropes through Sci-fi mechanics as this tale of greed set ten seconds in the future might as well as be set a hundred years in the past. In short Nic Hoult plays our power hungry social climber as the US is hit with a massive drought which makes everything feel apocalyptic. The search for capital as in any good western leads to questions of humanity and the worth of playing the price. The casting of Hoult, who let's admit does not look like Walter Houston, makes the moral pondering more effective then its been in a while as he's naturally a fairly cruel performer.

All of the characters though help make this triptych film remain startling as Paltrow asks us to change our degree of sympathy throughout. Shannon in particular gives perhaps his best performance, certainly so outside a Nichols film, as this ghost of morality confronting if a choice must be made between goodness and wellness. So the film goes in a direction whose greatness only slowly creeps up.

The Void (dirs. Kostanski & Gillespie)
This is a pretty good Carpenter knock off even if it doesn't do much beyond that. The characters are sketched in just enough, the bizarre is just unhinged enough, and the sense of theme is just enough there to make this enjoyable without complaint. It does leave me wondering when fun is just enough though as this is only a fun movie and one I imagine will not be in mind often in the future. There's just too many other movies that do the same thing in a more compelling fashion out there.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#390 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:58 pm

I know it’s ineligible as part of Ro.Go.Pa.G., which is definitely not comprehensively sci-fi, but Godard’s segment Il nuovo mondo is a fun postmodern attempt at the genre on its own.
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Using an atomic energy ‘event’ to initiate a body-snatchers type narrative occurs in typical Godard fashion, where all we really observe is a man’s egocentric paranoia leading to self-imposed (self-fulfilling, even?) alienation rather than concrete science fiction. I like how the telltale sign is a lacking in a partner’s ‘logic’ or ‘morality’ measured against one’s own, which feels as much of a self-critique on solipsism as an actual social apocalypse that our unreliable narrator concludes.
Unsurprisingly this is by far the best segment of the anthology film, though it doesn’t have much competition.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#391 Post by knives » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:54 am

That’s a very strange perspective to have. Usually the Pasolini segment is viewed as the film’s best and contemporaneously the last segment as well was seen as a bright spot.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#392 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:27 am

I liked the last segment too actually so it wasn’t as skewed as I made it seem, though both the Pasolini and Rossellini parts didn’t do much for me- with the Pasolini just feeling overlong. Godard’s and the last part were short and sweet, but I also love Godard and don’t love most Pasolini so I don’t see how that’s a strange perspective, unless you’re referring to the sci fi angle rather than the nature of subjectivity, which is what it sounds like and can only be strange when measured against your own subjective perspective. So your startled response actually could fit right in with that Godard segment’s themes- ‘How very strange you are for having a different opinion than me!’

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#393 Post by knives » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am

I wasn’t discussing my own opinion but rather the dismissive tone you took as if your position was the historical one. It is of course okay to go against the grain, but to speak as if you aren’t is unusual.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#394 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:31 am

That's a pretty intense and misguided reaction to me saying it's the best segment of the bunch and not feeling like there's much competition. I didn't use any definitive details to skewer the other films or canonize my response, though I could've added an "In my opinion" for sure to make it easier on the ears. How am I supposed to know if I'm going against the grain? This was the first time I saw the film, I have zero knowledge of what segments are considered positive, and I intentionally didn't go into why I felt it was better because I was focusing on the Godard short for this thread's purposes, and as an aside mentioned I wasn't thrilled with the rest. I intended my statement to read that 'unsurprisingly for me this is the best film of the bunch (because it's Godard)' but left out that last part, so with that context maybe it makes more sense focused around my opinion rather than an objective assessment, but I wasn't trying to be unfairly dismissive in a "historical" sense and rather than shame alternative opinions, just lay forth a vague impression

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#395 Post by domino harvey » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:16 pm

Watched Akira, which confirms this is not really my thing but had a lot of bombastic forward momentum and was entertaining enough, and the scale and scope was impressive. Would have been nice if it was able to slow down for like a minute at any point, but I guess that's not the point. Lots of gross stuff and an unnecessary almost-rape seem thrown in to make sure we know this isn't your father's animated feature, which I also found a bit tiring. And big dumb action scenes, even ones as fantastical as these, are still big dumb action scenes, only now wholly removed from any constraints of threat or mortality by involving what is essentially magic. I discovered while watching that it turns out I had seen the ending on cable some years ago, though I'm not sure it made a whole lot more sense then devoid of context than it did with it here in proper narrative order!

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#396 Post by knives » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:39 pm

It's about 28 books summarized in a 90 minute film, so the going too fast makes a lot of sense. Similar to Battle Angel Akira is very important historically for the importing of Japanese animation and comics even if its not particular good itself. There's a lot of recommendations here that are a lot better.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#397 Post by MongooseCmr » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:36 pm

That’s a bit of an exaggeration. Akira is 6 volumes long, and the film pretty much follows the first three with the finale of the third and sixth volumes combined. The manga is still a much more detailed and satisfying story.

Of course the best Akira related media is the OST.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#398 Post by Michael Kerpan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:55 pm

I lasted about 20 minutes before bailing on Akira (and my twins concurred) -- it had already used up its explosion quotient by that point. I think this was the point I realized that "action movies" (animated or live action) were definitely just not my kind of thing. ;-)

Last night, I watched Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. Although this is almost 3 hours long, it never _felt_ like it was long. I don't know how much impact it would make if one hadn't seen at least some of the predecessor animated series -- as it important to know know what the typical (albeit not exactly "normal") world of the series is like -- as that world radically changes just a few minutes into the film. I love the novels (and associated short stories) -- and the animated versions (as far as they go -- which is less than halfway) are pretty excellent adaptations (at least in subbed Japanese form -- I heard a bit of the dub and did not find it especially appealing).

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#399 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:57 pm

I never really understood the cult fandom around Akira, especially those who haven't read the manga (which oddly populates the majority of the die-hard fanbase that I know). Saw it as a kid as a bizarre double feature with Election (one for my same-age cousin, one for my aunt) and somehow preferred the latter in prepubescence- revisited it a year or two ago and felt the same. There's some fun to be had but it hardly excels in any area.

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Re: The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#400 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:05 pm

Is it really so strange that Akira is popular? It's a bizarre story bursting with strange ideas, vivid imagery and style, a soundtrack both unclassifiable and catchy, set in an ever-popular environment, the cyberpunk dystopia, and full of government conspiracies, mad religions, social unrest, leather-clad biker gangs, and apocalyptic overtones. It's tailor-made for cult popularity, general incomprehensibility included.

Akira was the first anime I saw, back in high school, and it was an intense and novel experience for me. I've seen it a few times since, though not for many years; yet I still think of it as an immersive, novel spectacle that takes on far more than it could ever handle and yet manages to be satisfying nonetheless. I much prefer it to the overrated Ghost in the Shell, which has all of Akira's style and posturing, but relies on the style and posturing to carry you past the disappointing fact that it takes on very little. To me, in-depth analyses of Ghost in the Shell seem to be supplying the ideas that the movie adumbrates but otherwise takes for granted. Akira by contrast is so bursting with imagination and energy that at no point do you feel you've lost something from having already experienced Blade Runner and Neuromancer. It does so many familiar things and yet still seems its own thing. Like a lot of cult movies, it's a fascinating mess. But I'll take it over the streamlined yet comparatively empty Ghost in the Shell any day.

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