The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[therewillbeblus]

After some consideration, I’m leaning towards including Mauvais Sang. The science fiction premise may take a back seat on the narrative front, but drives the stakes for love’s overwhelming intimacy that makes each union an existential battlefield of life-or-death, and elevates the importance of emotions into otherworldly space. Love becomes the only worthwhile drug, and one of pure truth and meaning in an otherwise compromised world.

Or maybe I’ll watch it again and decide it’s not enough.

[therewillbeblus]

I still remember Inconstant Moon being a very sweet love story— if that one actually sucks, I’d probably pack it in.

Inconstant Moon was definitely sweet, and reminded me of Seeking a Friend for the End of the World with a more time-sensitive push for assertiveness in ‘seizing the day.’ The commentary on bypassing fears that inhibit the necessary risk-taking behaviors for living an optimal life is expressed in a diverse assessment of emotions across several scenes, a bit rushed but necessarily so in this economical window of time. There are a surprising amount of fun ideas thrown into the episode as it fluctuates between a sci-fi thriller and a 'one crazy night' rom-com, far more than what's needed, my favorite detail being

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Michael Gross taking the time to buy a pack of cigarettes with a gleeful Fuck It!

So, I guess I'll be continuing on with The Outer Limits 90s revival for now, especially since the next two I watched were also solid entertainment.

Dead Man’s Switch (which I quickly realized I had seen in a college film class long ago) had some honest fun with an intriguing setup. It's also a really good COVID quarantine episode for a number of reasons, from relying on teleconference human contact, to dwelling on the need for connection in a complex array beyond just emotional intimacy- for a huge component is dissecting the fear of taking on the weight of individualized responsibility to juxtapose the relief in working on a shared task. I also got a kick out of how Le Gros ties to gauge what's going on (plenty of red herrings, at least for me, being paranoid on what was "real" or a trap in the others' roles/settings) as the video cuts in and out, and the unsettling feeling of being emasculated of omnipotence into accessing your teammate's state reminds me of all the issues that come up in virtually every meeting I'm a part of these days (though the camera following each character as they move around the room is pretty hilarious, since they're in isolation and as far as I know don't have moving cams keeping them in center frame!)

To Tell the Truth is an unnerving tale of the potentially-fatal consequences from the next chapter of a 'boy who cried wolf' once. The impulses of analytical logistics, political aims, self-preservation, and emotional tics all get time to argue their own logic, and the deliberation in a group setting is pretty exciting even for a rehashed process. I liked this one a good amount, with a clever ending that may be expected by this point, but is still a fun jab nonetheless.

[domino harvey]

I haven’t seen it, but I recall hearing Feasibility Study was an ep worth seeing around the time that Stephen King bubble novel/show came out, as there are apparently a few similarities

[therewillbeblus]

Yep, that one's on my list!

Might as well post what's been recommended by season (aside from what I've already seen/written on) in case anyone wants to confirm/deny their worthiness:

S1
-Second Soul
-The New Breed
-Caught in the Act

S2
-A Stitch in Time
-Falling Star
-The Refuge
-Afterlife
-Unnatural selection
-Trial by Fire
-The Deprogrammers
-The Light Brigade

S3
-Stream of Consciousness
-The Camp
-Feasibility Study

S4
-Relative Theory
-Identity Crisis
-Josh
-Fear Itself
-Final Exam
-Monster
-Nightmare
-Promised Land
-The Balance of Nature
-Origin of Species
-Phobos Rising
-In Our Own Image

S5
-The Grell
-Tribunal
-Descent
-The Shroud
-The Human Operators
-Fathers and Sons

S6
-Decompression
-Simon Says
-Final Appeal

S7
-Alien Shop
-The Surrogate
-Patient Zero

[therewillbeblus]

Revisiting Interstellar substantiated how profound its strengths are and also gave me the space to appreciate my initial issues with the ending. The hard science doesn't bother me, but the idea that we are all connected in a kind of Buddhist conception of time is heartening and the film's emotional heights define the soul in terms only cinema can do. I love how much this owes to Spielberg, which I hadn't really grasped before, and following that model for humanistic stories of finding new ways to connect and show our love just works marvelously. Plus the space scenes are perfectly conceived and honestly quite humble for what I'd expect from Nolan, who doesn't sacrifice empathy for spectacle but finds a way to balance both along an intricately scientific journey with a beating heart at its core.


Midnight Special: I might not revisit this one, but I admired it greatly in theatres for its depiction of alien life being something quite literally outside of our ability to comprehend.

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Sure, Nichols shows us the world existing in concrete form at the end, which may bother some- but I always took it to be emblematic of the idea that God, or enigmatic forces/energies that the science-bound atheism rejects, exist in a state that is beyond our comprehension with the limited mental powers and perceptive tools at our disposal. In any event, the film floored me, and even before I began to expand my mind from a rigid atheism into agnosticity, it profoundly professed my own problematic stance before my eyes in a way that I can only describe as a spiritual experience.

Aside from that special way that Nichols uses sci-fi to exploit a truth in our meaning-making and expand those peripheries into accepting other dimensions, the film is a lot of fun. It’s a road movie, political thriller, and family drama. Definitely a list-contender.


10 Cloverfield Lane: After having actually liked the other "universe" chapter (still the only ‘found footage’ movie I can lay that claim to), I was blown away with this one in the theatre. I have little to add to the excellent forum discussion in its dedicated thread. Winstead is absolutely terrific in a role that is equally generous and makes you understand that this is the female role that should have existed all along in these types of movies, and we never part from complete subjective alignment with her experience. Thankfully she acts so rightly with self-preserving instincts that we can nod all the way, and beyond her pivotal perf, the merging of ideas in a multiplex of genres delivers the goods across a spectrum while maintaining the humility of a ‘small’ film on several levels. I really like what warren oates said in the original thread

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pertaining to how instead of a ‘one or the other’ (Goodman is right and not crazy so there are aliens, or he’s wrong and demented and there are not aliens) we get all ideas to become true. In allowing the audience to subvert expectations from red herrings into trusting themselves (we smell Goodman’s evil through Winstead, and common sense, and we know something must be up above too) it’s the ultimate form of audience and character validation.

Overall, a blast of a movie, and an easy listmaker (and incredibly timely to revisit during COVID). Also, why isn’t Dan Trachtenberg an A-lister yet, and.. where the hell is he?


Looper: It’s not a great film, but I admire Johnson’s ability to fit neo-noir, romance, western, and supernatural horror elements into this sci-fi narrative that finds room for both hard scientific ideas and existential ones. The shifts in tone or genre don’t bother me too much, and the ethical dilemma we are left with in the end feeds my specific interest even if it’s a bit.. lame? (At the time I first watched this, I was in my earlier days of working directly with kids many supposed to be ‘doomed’ for life, so it was a philosophical proposition on the probability versus right for opportunities at rehabilitation for youth that struck a chord.) I wouldn’t fault anyone for rolling their eyes at this one, but I still find some merit present despite its flaws becoming increasingly more apparent upon revists. Jeff Daniels’ perf is still the best part of the movie though, and the twisted torture, so I understand the claims that the film loses its way in the back half. It definitely overexplains itself in trying to make sense (yes, there are glaring time-travel issues, per usual) but if one can give the film some rope, it’s got a lot to offer (including some pretty messed up exhibitions of taking action on the risk-management side of that ethical dilemma).


Under the Skin: Plenty of worthwhile analyses have been spun about this masterwork, but my favorite has always been the simplest and perhaps vaguest: That our surfaced exteriors are a form of communication, whether intended or projected upon. We judge or succumb to one’s attractiveness (romantic, platonic, worthiness of engagement, etc.) based on superficial designs without ‘knowing’ a person, and thus everyone is an alien to everyone else. The loneliness of ScarJo and isolation between her, her victims, and the audience, only reinforces this position, where we become aliens right along with her.

The disfigured man’s shyness and low self-esteem is painful to endure, and the scene is the kind of exploitation that tackles our default assessment of one’s worth based on surfaces, acknowledging the brands that scar us for life and the pain that this imbues into social interactions. ScarJo’s neutrality evokes the ambiguity of exploitation and ignorance, and professes a possible nebulous loneliness within her, as well as the possibility of a foreign mindset that looks beyond the skin. Her subsequent self-evaluation and journey into attempting to discover her humanity is one of directionless solitude, speaking to the realm of identity we desperately need to share and understand amidst a world of shallow visualization. When she examines her genitals we comprehend the value of ‘oneness’ with one’s physical as an invaluable knowledge, and it’s even suggested as possibly being a core piece of what we call self-actualization, in such a physical world.

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ScarJo’s humanity is justified as she strays into this uncomfortable terrain, because we can identify with such an exploration. The attempted assault in the woods elicit reactions of empathy from us, and feel like a third-act trick from Glazer, who has been riding on ScarJo’s alienating presence via unidimensional alluring beauty until now. Is our empathic response indicative of aligning with her character’s essence, or an idea of this essence through the skin? Does our compassion source from seeing the other as a reflection of ourselves, and not the personality beneath?

Aside from the tricks that dig at the themes, it’s a blast of formal achievement, from the opening sound design to the continually unexpected shifts in style. This film never gets old for me, and I’m still amazed that after two artistically strong yet flawed films, Glazer made this bizarre uncategorizable art film and then stopped with creative features, for now.

[Satori]

Less a Sci-Fi List review and more of an accidental litmus test, it turns out: I watched Lizzie Borden's phenomenal Born in Flames tonight, which I've been meaning to watch for years and finally did because I wanted something short and I'd seen it mentioned as sci-fi before... but this is just not sci-fi? It's set in a relative, atemporalized, dystopian-ish "future"—10 years after a very loosely defined "peaceful political revolution" in the US that leads to a Democratic Socialist government, but we're never given a year, and diegetically, it is entirely aesthetically of its production year. Looking at it from now, it could just as easily be a realistic alternative history past. My first reaction is that it should be mentioned in the same breath as Battle of Algiers as a pseudo-document of radical leftist activism; and in spite of its gruff punk/no-wave/lo-fi aesthetic, it's breathtakingly deft at delineating strains of leftism and instra-movement squabbles that feel so absurdly relevant to the events of this year, you almost want to laugh to keep from crying—I've seen versions of damn near every conversation and monologue in this movie published somewhere online in the past three months. But this "future's" differences are entirely sociopolitical, not technological. There is no attempt to imagine new technologies that aid one "side" or the other, nor any to augment contemporary fashions in some "futuristic" way, nor any unexplained phenomena of any kind other than a mass political movement that is, admittedly, even more unbelievable with the full effect of Reaganism in hindsight. Given the impending explosion of the AIDS crisis and more prevalent access to computers that were to follow it, it's honestly more surprising for what the movie excludes from its future. It doesn't even try to extrapolate or play fast and loose and get things spectacularly wrong. So while I think it's a fantastic movie, I'm not sure why I ever saw it mentioned as sci-fi. And maybe it feels especially less like sci-fi now that a Democratic Socialist has actually been within shouting distance of the Presidency twice? Do other folks consider this sci-fi?

(Also, does anybody have the First Run blu-ray of this? I can't find a single review of it, or even any information about it at all.)

The First Run is a BD-R, unfortunately, but it looks pretty good to my admittedly untrained eye. Certainly much better than the old DVD. No bonus features.

I'm not one to quibble about gene definitions, but Born in Flames seems like sci-fi to me. Sure, it's about 80s New York, but isn't sci-fi always really about the present anyway (at least in a socio-political sense)? And I can't imagine a greater cognitive estrangement than the Reaganite 80s being imagined as a socialist worker's utopia. I think you're right when you call it an alternate history. It follows the classic "what if" formula: what if the postwar Keynesian economy evolved into a social democratic state rather than being hobbled by neoliberalism? Would women be better off?

I totally agree that it is a brilliant film and a crucial document of 80s left wing feminism. I also think it's an important text for afrofuturism, and is worth talking about in relation to Brother From Another Planet and Space is the Place, both of which also engage with the relationship of contemporary urban spaces to black utopian dreaming.

[domino harvey]

Presumably anything is better than this (NSFW)

[therewillbeblus]

Presumably anything is better than this (NSFW)

Have you ever seen it? It's been a long-running joke from one of my friends growing up who links it every time he's recommending a movie to anyone, literally going on two decades (purely from the absurdity of its existence). The guy who made it sounds like he was interesting, at least

[knives]

I've heard good things about it actually.

[therewillbeblus]

You can watch it on YT (it's less than 25 minutes). It's pretty ridiculous, but as an audacious low-budget parody of the genre and a satire on toxic masculinity, you can certainly draw some entertainment from it, depending on the viewer. I don't know what the intentions were, but by making a movie about destroying what one fears and cannot understand (women here) by normalizing a synthesis of marginalized groups as the dominant ones doing the oppression via annihilation (yet literally alienating them at the same time by definition), that irony can speak for itself in transforming odd perspective shifts. It's mostly populated with sexualized puns and sloppy, silly blaxploitation style though.

[therewillbeblus]

Revisiting the Twilight Zone contenders:

The Invaders’ silent thriller is still a well-constructed piece of pulp mystery-horror, and clearly inspired the Black Mirror ep Metalhead in its foundational blueprint. The twist is always a fun realization of perspective, and as solid as this episode is, it’s not profound enough to make my list, especially since its pleasures are sourced in other genres despite the obvious sci-fi plot.

Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up? riffs on a familiar idea even for this show, but essentially organizes itself as The Thing’s ‘Who’s The Monster’ mystery in Agatha Christie fashion. Like The Invaders, the episode’s strengths are derived from other genres (while the next four are more concerned with terrors rooted in uncomfortable science-fiction/fantasy ideas), but the final double-twist is comically overplayed to the point of commendable amusement, for it's completely in step with its literary influences.

It’s a Good Life: This episode still terrifies me as a straight horror, but since it's based on what may actually happen if a child was granted telekinetic powers, the narrative fits with the raw truth of science-fiction's ill-fitting presence in our world. The sensation of being trapped in lies to be 'perfect' - an impossible state that none of us can reach socially, especially when contending with the expectations of others - is exacerbated by not even being safe with one's own thoughts. Still one of the eeriest pieces of media I’ve ever seen, and a lock for my list.

Five Characters in Search of an Exit: Yeah, definitely more of a dark fantasy than a science-fiction. Still an intriguing bit of imagination, but one that definitely loses some of its power after you know the reveal.

To Serve Man: What to say about this one? I don't fall in with the opinions that state the episode is all about its ending, because it’s a pretty entertaining ride until then. The pun drives home the fears of communication that we rely on to understand the little we do in this world from other living, breathing, thinking beings with agency. To disrupt that harmony is to reinforce all the fears about an alien race.

Nightmare at 20,000 Feet: What’s worse than gaslighting? Self-gaslighting. External disbelief isn’t the root of the psychological turmoil here (though it doesn’t help!), but one’s deterioration from the split instincts to trust their senses and the paranoia of delusion that comes from sensing the impossible. A very scary idea translated into an already-trapped setting, and the history of Shatner’s recent breakdown having occurred on an airplane, makes this the ultimate nightmare! I’d honestly have put this on my horror list had I thought of it, and since that’s entirely where it belongs, I can’t in good faith put it on this list. It’s still one of the best episodes of the series and Richard Donner’s surrealistically asphyxiating, suspenseful direction is some of the best work he’s ever done.

[zedz]

A couple of new films that qualify for this project and are worth considering:

The Long Walk (Mattie Do, 2019) - Strange and increasingly dark Laotian ghost story that meets the brief by being set in the future and involving time travel, even though it feels nothing like most films in the genre. Uncle Boonmee meets Primer gives you some idea of its conceptual ballpark, if not its stylistic one.

Last and First Men (Johann Johannson, 2020) - Johannson's first, last and only feature is old school hard science fiction. Tilda Swinton calmly speaks to us from 2000 million years in the future about our demise while Johannson calmly investigates the ruins of an extinct species. Structured more like a piece of music than a conventional narrative, and the music is as strong as you'd expect from this composer. Hypnotic and assured if you're up for the challenge. Reminded me of Ben Rivers' great Slow Action (2011), which is also sci-fi and which you could also check out if this appeals.

[bottled spider]

Last and First Men (Johann Johannson, 2020) - Johannson's first, last and only feature is old school hard science fiction. Tilda Swinton calmly speaks to us from 2000 million years in the future about our demise while Johannson calmly investigates the ruins of an extinct species. Structured more like a piece of music than a conventional narrative, and the music is as strong as you'd expect from this composer. Hypnotic and assured if you're up for the challenge. Reminded me of Ben Rivers' great Slow Action (2011), which is also sci-fi and which you could also check out if this appeals.

A Swinton marathon is possible for this project:
Orlando (Sally Potter, 1982) -- great movie, debatable classification
Possible Worlds (Lepage, 2000) -- good; recently viewed, but I want to revisit before commenting on it, it's quite confusing
Teknolust (Lynn Hershman Leeson, 2002) -- Swinton keeps three virtual Swintons in her microwave, who subsist on semen tea, etc. Dorky and amiable, with sort of a Kids in the Hall vibe. Might have been better in fact with that cast. I'd hesitate to recommend it, but hell I might vote for it.
Conceiving Ada (Lynn Hershman Leeson, 1997) -- not seen yet.

[domino harvey]

That Jarmusch zombie movie as well, though why would anyone vote for that

[senseabove]

And Snowpiercer, of course.

[domino harvey]

I would have liked A Bigger Splash more if there were UFOs in it

[therewillbeblus]

She's a voice in Isle of Dogs, which is surely making my list

[Never Cursed]

I promise I won't keep asking these questions of the board, but given that the two genres so rarely intersect, what noteworthy sci-fi musicals are there besides Rocky Horror and Little Shop Of Horrors? I already know I'm not exactly on the firmest ground given that both these films have "horror" in the title, but surely there have to be more than just these two (even Rocky Horror's sequel isn't sci-fi, from what I can tell)

[zedz]

Last and First Men (Johann Johannson, 2020) - Johannson's first, last and only feature is old school hard science fiction. Tilda Swinton calmly speaks to us from 2000 million years in the future about our demise while Johannson calmly investigates the ruins of an extinct species. Structured more like a piece of music than a conventional narrative, and the music is as strong as you'd expect from this composer. Hypnotic and assured if you're up for the challenge. Reminded me of Ben Rivers' great Slow Action (2011), which is also sci-fi and which you could also check out if this appeals.

A Swinton marathon is possible for this project:
Orlando (Sally Potter, 1982) -- great movie, debatable classification
Possible Worlds (Lepage, 2000) -- good; recently viewed, but I want to revisit before commenting on it, it's quite confusing
Teknolust (Lynn Hershman Leeson, 2002) -- Swinton keeps three virtual Swintons in her microwave, who subsist on semen tea, etc. Dorky and amiable, with sort of a Kids in the Hall vibe. Might have been better in fact with that cast. I'd hesitate to recommend it, but hell I might vote for it.
Conceiving Ada (Lynn Hershman Leeson, 1997) -- not seen yet.

Don’t forget Friendship’s Death.

[domino harvey]

I promise I won't keep asking these questions of the board, but given that the two genres so rarely intersect, what noteworthy sci-fi musicals are there besides Rocky Horror and Little Shop Of Horrors? I already know I'm not exactly on the firmest ground given that both these films have "horror" in the title, but surely there have to be more than just these two (even Rocky Horror's sequel isn't sci-fi, from what I can tell)

You can’t vote for it, but Fringe did a noir musical episode. Reefer Madness: the Movie Musical lampoons literal fictive science, but it’s not actually sci-fi even if it does have fantastical elements like zombies, celestial visions, and Stupid Sexy Moloch

[domino harvey]

Oh, but Brigadoon and Finian’s Rainbow count!

EDIT And Xanadu, though that’s getting into what’s outré religion and what’s sci-fi

[therewillbeblus]

I can't think of any good ones.. so many 'fantasy' but very few science-fiction. Good call on Little Shop of Horrors though- I can't stand the Corman but the 80s Oz version is a childhood favorite (Steve Martin as the sadist dentist is just the best). If I could rationalize Reefer Madness: the Movie Musical it'd make my list easy.

A couple of films that I'm on the fence about imagine worlds rooted in different internal logics that are creative goldmines. Idiocracy is more clearly science-fiction and I'll be counting. The Invention of Lying is a bit more of a fantasy in its speculative roots. Still, even though I haven’t seen it since college, I remember it being genius with Gervais and co going for broke. The opening moments with Garner are hysterical and shockingly perverse and this audacity sets the tone for the rest. I imagine that one's not a board favorite, but at least 21-year old me loved it, and I have enough clear memories to feel confident in at least a few handfuls of greatness.

[Never Cursed]

You can’t vote for it, but Fringe did a noir musical episode. Reefer Madness: the Movie Musical lampoons literal fictive science, but it’s not actually sci-fi even if it does have fantastical elements like zombies, celestial visions, and Stupid Sexy Moloch

Yeah, I saw the latter a few weeks ago, and it would rank high on my list if I could even halfway defend it as sci-fi. I know you are not fond of Brigadoon, and my impression of Xanadu from the early Razzie crowd (admittedly not anyone I would call reliable arbiters of taste) was that it was an embarrassment. Is the Coppola any good?

[domino harvey]

It’s okay, but shows how uncomfortable musicals were in this decade with the transition from sets to location shooting and here we get a melange far less successful than Pajama Game’s similar dalliance a decade earlier. Astaire is fine but looks 200 years old. Tommy whatshisname is annoying as fuck. As is sometimes the case, the musical number that would get it cancelled now if anyone remembered the film existed is also the best song in the damn thing. And Xanadu is way better then the godawful Here Comes Mr Jordan sequel it is a (V E R Y) loose remake of

[domino harvey]

Oh, I forgot about the Return of Captain Invincible... don’t let curiosity get the best of you, it’s just as weird as it sounds but not in a particularly fun way