The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions (Decade Project Vol. 4)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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TMDaines
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#876 Post by TMDaines » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:40 am

My ballot was as follows. Top 10, orphans and also-rans listed.

#1) Ben-Hur (William Wyler - 1959)
#2) I soliti ignoti (Mario Monicelli - 1958)

#3) Le notti di Cabiria (Federico Fellini - 1957)
#4) Körhinta (Zoltán Fábri - 1956)
#5) Rear Window (Alfred Hitchcock - 1954)
#6) Sweet Smell of Success (Alexander Mackendrick - 1957)
#7) La grande guerra (Mario Monicelli - 1959)
#8) Il Generale della Rovere (Roberto Rossellini - 1959)

#9) Night and the City (Jules Dassin - 1950)
#10) Madame de… (Max Ophüls - 1953)

#13) Pętla (Wojciech Has - 1958)
#18) The Bad and the Beautiful (Vincente Minnelli - 1952)


#24) Czlowiek na torze (Andrzej Munk - 1957)
#27) Roma ore 11 (Giuseppe De Santis - 1952)
#28) Le notti bianche (Luchino Visconti - 1957)


#32) Casque d'or (Jacques Becker - 1952)
#35) Biruma no tategoto (Kon Ichikawa - 1956)
#36) Marty (Delbert Mann - 1955)
#37) Umberto D. (Vittorio De Sica - 1952)


#40) Stalag 17 (Billy Wilder - 1953)
#41) Il sole negli occhi (Antonio Pietrangeli - 1953)
#42) Popiół i diament (Andrzej Wajda - 1958)
#43) Cronaca di un amore (Michelangelo Antonioni - 1950)
#44) Guardie e ladri (Mario Monicelli - 1951)
#45) Der Hauptmann von Köpenick (Helmut Käutner - 1956)
#46) Gycklarnas afton (Ingmar Bergman - 1953)
#49) Vynález zkázy (Karel Zeman - 1958)
#50) Die letzte Brücke (Helmut Käutner - 1954)

Top directors were Hitchcock, Monicelli and Sirk with three films. Bresson, Clouzot, Dassin, Kaeutner, Kazan, Kubrick and Wilder all got two entries.
Top countries were the US with 19, Italy 10, France 7, Poland 3 and Japan 2. A further nine countries all got a single film nominated.
I've seen 61 of our top 100, and 63 of the top 100 from our last iteration.

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the preacher
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#877 Post by the preacher » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:11 am

Vol. 4 - Top Directors so far (after adjustment according to number of ballots in each decade):
1. Alfred Hitchcock
2. Ernst Lubitsch
3. Fritz Lang
4. Charles Chaplin
5. Howard Hawks
6. F.W. Murnau
7. John Ford
8. Yasujirô Ozu
9. Josef von Sternberg
10. Carl Dreyer
11. Michael Powell
12. Jean Renoir
13. Victor Sjöström
14. Buster Keaton
15. D.W. Griffith
16. Orson Welles
17. Louis Feuillade
18. Erich von Stroheim
19. William Wyler
20. Yevgeni Bauer
21. Raoul Walsh
22. Frank Capra
23. Georges Méliès
24. Abel Gance
25. Billy Wilder
26. Nicholas Ray
27. Douglas Sirk
28. Luis Buñuel
29. Sergei Eisenstein
30. Preston Sturges
31. Kenji Mizoguchi
32. Max Ophüls
33. Michael Curtiz
34. Akira Kurosawa
35. Louis & Auguste Lumière
36. Jean Epstein
37. Roberto Rossellini
38. Frank Borzage
39. Vincente Minnelli
40. Marcel Carné
41. John Huston
42. Robert Bresson
43. Otto Preminger
44. Leo McCarey
45. Mauritz Stiller
46. King Vidor
47. G.W. Pabst
48. Maurice Tourneur
49. George Cukor
50. Pál Fejös
51. Jacques Tourneur
52. Victor Fleming
53. Mikio Naruse
54. Carol Reed
55. Henri-Georges Clouzot
56. Edwin Porter
57. Dziga Vertov
58. Gregory La Cava
59. Ingmar Bergman
60. Jean Cocteau
61. Jean Grémillon
62. Cecil B. DeMille
63. Benjamin Christensen
64. Anthony Mann
65. Mervyn LeRoy
66. Winsor McCay
67. Władysław Starewicz
68. William Wellman
69. Alexander Mackendrick
70. Robert Wiene
71. Dimitri Kirsanoff
72. Charles Laughton
73. Joseph Mankiewicz
74. Elia Kazan
75. Giovanni Pastrone
76. Rouben Mamoulian
77. Julien Duvivier
78. Jean Vigo
79. René Clair
80. Alain Resnais
81. G.W. Bitzer
82. Lois Weber
83. Sagar Mitchell & James Kenyon
84. Teinosuke Kinugasa
85. Otto Rippert
86. Germaine Dulac
87. Jules Dassin
88. David Lean
89. Hiroshi Shimizu
90. Satyajit Ray
91. James Whale
92. Federico Fellini
93. Léonce Perret
94. Stanley Kubrick
95. Edward Cline
96. Sam Taylor
97. Frank Tashlin
98. Robert Siodmak
99. Tod Browning
100. E.A. Dupont

Only directors listed in the top 50 of each decade were considered. Let me know if any busy bee over the decades with no hits comes to your mind.

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Feego
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#878 Post by Feego » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:32 am

Great work, swo! My top 10, plus also-rans and orphans.

1. Rebel Without a Cause (1955, Nicholas Ray)
2. Imitation of Life (1959, Douglas Sirk)
3. Dracula (1958, Terence Fisher)
4. Singin’ in the Rain (1952, Gene Kelly, Stanley Donen)
5. Has Anybody Seen My Gal? (1952, Douglas Sirk)
6. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953, Howard Hawks)
7. Rear Window (1954, Alfred Hitchcock)
8. The Tall T (1957, Budd Boetticher)
9. Alice in Wonderland (1951, Hamilton Luske, Wilfred Jackson, Clyde Geronimi)
10. Night and the City (1950, Jules Dassin)


12. Forbidden Games (1952, Rene Clement)
13. Them! (1954, Gordon Douglas)
21. An American in Paris (1951, Vincente Minnelli)
23. The Bad Seed (1956, Mervyn LeRoy)
24. Kismet (1955, Vincente Minnelli)
25. The War of the Worlds (1953, Byron Haskin)
30. The Importance of Being Earnest (1952, Anthony Asquith)
34. Sleeping Beauty (1959, Eric Larson, Wolfgang Reitherman, Clyde Geronimi, Les Clark)
38. The Golden Coach (1952, Jean Renoir)
39. A Place in the Sun (1951, George Stevens)
42. The Man in the White Suit (1951, Alexander Mackendrick)
44. Creature from the Black Lagoon (1954, Jack Arnold)
47. House on Haunted Hill (1959, William Castle)
48. Calamity Jane (1953, David Butler)
49. Scrooge (1951, Brian Desmond Hurst)

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the preacher
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#879 Post by the preacher » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:39 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:49 pm
Japanese cinema's popularity here seems to have (kinda sorta) collapsed.

Shikata ga nai.... :-(
I take my share of the blame for abandoning Sound of the Mountain and Miss Oyu. :oops: I'll make sure to get back to Naruse in the 60s (plus Masumura and Ozu, and we'll see what happens with Uchida, Nomura, Kato, Imamura, Gosho, Oshima or Kurosawa).

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#880 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:52 pm

Alas, Naruse in the 60s, while often very good, is far less consistently great. The most golden decade for Japan was the 50s -- and all but the most obvious picks got largely ignored. Lots of competition, I know, and Japan's output is far less available. :-(
Last edited by Michael Kerpan on Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swo17
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#881 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:16 pm

Red Screamer wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:00 pm
I'm disappointed that not a single avant-garde film made the cut, and in such an exciting decade for the scene!
N.Y., N.Y. qualified for the all-time list at least

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Lowry_Sam
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#882 Post by Lowry_Sam » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm

Here's my list. I contemplated deleting orphans & moving things up and filling the bottom of the list with rescues, but then realized if others do the same, it might be all in vain as most of my orphans were already at the bottom of the list.

1 The Nights Of Cabiria (Fellini, 1957)
2 Vertigo (Hitchcock, 1958)
3 All About Eve (Mankiewicz, 1950)
4 The Wages Of Fear (Clouzot, 1953)
5 The Human Condition (Kobayashi, 1959)
6 The Earrings Of Madame de ... (Ophuls, 1953)
7 A Streetcar Named Desire (Kazan, 1951)
8 Le Beau Serge (Chabrol, 1958)
9 La Ronde (Ophuls, 1950)
10 Girl With Hyacinths (Ekman, 1950)

11 Rear Window (Hitchcock, 1954)
12 The Member Of The Wedding (Zinneman, 1952)
13 Seven Samurai (Kurasawa, 1954)
14 Gun Crazy (Lewis, 1950)
15 Tokyo Story (Ozu, 1953)
16 Night And Fog (Resnais, 1956)
17 The Wrong Man (Hitchcock, 1956)
18 Imitation Of Life (Sirk, 1959)
19 Born Yesterday (Cukor, 1950)
20 Touch Of Evil (Welles, 1950)
21 The Steel Helmet (Fuller, 1951)
22 The Breaking Point (Curtiz, 1950)
23 The Last Hurrah (Ford, 1958)
24 In A Lonely Place (Ray, 1950)
25 Sunset Boulevard (Wilder, 1950)
26 A Man Escaped (Bresson, 1956)
27 I Vitelloni (Fellini, 1953)
28 A Face In The Crowd (Kazan, 1957)
29 12 Angry Men (Lumet, 1957)
30 Ugetsu (Mizoguchi, 1953)
31 La Strada (Fellini, 1954)
32 Come Back, Little Sheba (Mann, 1952)
33 On The Waterfront (Kazan, 1954)
34 The 400 Blows (Truffaut, 1959)
35 Sweet Smell Of Success (Mackendrick, 1957)
36 Gervaise (Clement, 1956)
37 Magokoro/Sincere Heart (Kobayashi, 1953)
38 Deadline USA (Brooks, 1952)
39 Elevator To The Gallows (Malle, 1958)
40 Strangers On A Train (Hitchcock, 1951)
41 99 River Street (Karlson, 1953)
42 Illegal (Allen, 1955)
43 I'm Alright Jack (Boulting, 1958)
44 Hell Drivers (Endfield, 1957)
45 Some Like It Hot (Wilder, 1959)
46 Auntie Mame (DaCosta, 1958)
47 Affair In Trinidad (Sherman, 1952)
48 Kanal (Wajda, 1957)
49 When You Read This Letter (Melville, 1952)
50 The Wild One (Benedek, 1953)

And I've seen 91 of the top 100.

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swo17
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#883 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:51 pm

Yeah, I noticed at least one orphan (Corn Chips) that someone swooped in to rescue that the original voter in the meantime had dropped from their list

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#884 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:59 pm

I think that happened in the case of a few swaps in my 40s list, and I considered similar moves that would (probably) orphan films like Ewa Wants to Sleep this round, but ultimately played things more conservatively. Orphan life is tough

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Red Screamer
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#885 Post by Red Screamer » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:13 pm

Lowry_Sam wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
10 Girl With Hyacinths (Ekman, 1950)
I bet that by the time the next version of this list comes around, some smart label will rescue this film, introduce it to a new fanbase, and launch it into the top 100. It's a film ripe for rediscovery.

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the preacher
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#886 Post by the preacher » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:19 pm

swo17 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:06 pm
I vampiri (Riccardo Freda, 1957) 43
Correction (assuming that it was my vote):
El vampiro (Fernando Méndez, 1957)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051151/

Shame on me, a MacMahonist. ](*,)

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swo17
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#887 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:24 pm

Sorry, yeah, you didn't specify the director, and an IMDb search for El vampiro pulls up the Freda but not the Méndez. I can fix it in the results.

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Toland's Mitchell
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#888 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:52 am

I'm still new-ish here so forgive me for asking. But if I understand correctly, Touch if Evil is not eligible for the all time list because it didn't appear on at least two individual Top 10s of the 1950s? And Love in the Afternoon is eligible because it did appear on two Top 10s, regardless that Touch of Evil ranked #7 overall while Love in the Afternoon isn't even in the Top 150? If so, that's both funny and strange.

617 points coming from 22 lists means Touch of Evil averaged a #23 ranking on those lists, yet only one (TWWB) placed it in their top 10. What are the odds? Many folks must've had it just outside their top 10. Rayon Vert had it #16, nitin #12, I had it at #17 on mine, and there are bound to be others in the same boat. I don't think it shows ignorance on the board's part. I think we mostly love Touch of Evil, but not quite enough for Top 10 honors for whatever reason.

Anyway, great list! Thanks again swo for everything you've done.

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swo17
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#889 Post by swo17 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:40 am

The thought is that if not even two people are passionate enough about a film to put it in their top 10, then it doesn't stand a chance when put up against the hundreds of other films that do have that kind of support, and so it would be a wasted vote in the all-time list. Top 10 for a decade implies it's your #1 of the year it came out, on average, and a top 50 of all time will only have room for like half of those. Honestly a film probably won't make the final all-time list with less than, say, five top 10 placements during that film's individual decade list, but I think it's more fun and adventurous to set the threshold a little lower. Plus, two is consistent with our orphan rule

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#890 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:36 am

Toland's Mitchell wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:52 am
I don't think it shows ignorance on the board's part. I think we mostly love Touch of Evil, but not quite enough for Top 10 honors for whatever reason.
Oh yeah I was joking in the use of the word ignorance. The ‘two in the top ten’ is not a perfect system but one probably as good as any. For a while, I’ve wondered what it would be like to ask members to turn in decade top ten lists, if they wish, for each decade in the months prior to the next All-Time list’s start window, and then add any films that suddenly garnish five or so top ten votes that got one or none before. Obviously tastes change and sometimes in accordance to new members joining, delayed influence to someone’s orphans listed/championed, or physical releases coming out triggering mass exposure. For example, had I participated in the 30s list I’d have listed Twentieth Century as number one- and if it hypothetically gets a blu ray release in the next few years, more might discover it, and it could feasibly crack an All-Time list six years from now. Not the best example since many active participants here have seen that one, but just an idea (The Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice’s movement from nil to a decent placement on this list is surely due to Criterion’s release last year).

On the other hand, a positive to personal favorites like that and the Welles not making the list is that there will be room for others to make it on that would have been cut otherwise. Everyone here likely has at least a few idiosyncratic favs that they are or can be vocal about and seeing what more popular choices edge their way in is fun too.

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#891 Post by swo17 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:24 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:36 am
The ‘two in the top ten’ is not a perfect system but one probably as good as any. For a while, I’ve wondered what it would be like to ask members to turn in decade top ten lists, if they wish, for each decade in the months prior to the next All-Time list’s start window, and then add any films that suddenly garnish five or so top ten votes that got one or none before.
I'm not going to do that, as it seems designed to game the results, and I like the idea of encouraging people to participate throughout the entire round. I personally ranked ToE at 14, so if I felt pressure to include it on such a list to help you out, it wouldn't take much convincing. But what I really want to know is, for everyone that dug into the weeds of the decade enough to submit a top 50, what films stood out in this way? I'm mostly interested in what films there are that I haven't seen or that I've written off that apparently have this level of passion behind them. I don't feel sorry for a well established canonical film not making the grade, because again, the threshold for them should really be more like four or five top 10 placements. Two is a very low threshold that allows for variance in participation and in how valued each decade is relative to the others

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#892 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Yeah I wasn't actually making this suggestion, otherwise I'd have thrown it out into the List Projects thread posed as such, but in response to a question by a member about the rationale behind the process, it seemed worth floating as an unfinished idea to test the waters. I do think the two film policy is fair and am not advocating for it to be meddled with. To answer your question, Peyton Place was the film that expectedly didn't wind up in anyone else's top ten, but did get close for some, that after a few revisits sits for me as the best melodrama I've seen, next to the canonical Rebel Without a Cause. It seems like a lot of folks drank the coolaid during this project and many came away impressed. I could see it growing on others who choose to revisit it, as it did for me, and would probably make my personal All-Time top 50 if I submitted a list today.

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swo17
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#893 Post by swo17 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:41 pm

Well I wasn't soliciting answers, but suggesting that the votes provided the answer. (So yes, a surprising part of the answer this time was Love in the Afternoon.) Peyton Place is probably a good film to illustrate my point. It's gotten a huge push recently on this forum, with most people I imagine picking it up recently from Twilight Time and lots of posters cheerleading for it. Is there anyone here that still hasn't gotten around to seeing it? And yet it only made the one top 10, which says...something. Not that it's not a great film, just that it doesn't have overwhelming passionate support behind it. As you suggested before, this is really just sparing you from the orphan heartbreak several years from now

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#894 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:50 pm

I definitely didn't read your question as rhetorical, but yeah we're on the same page

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senseabove
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#895 Post by senseabove » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:54 pm

Late to my brief reactions, but:

Very happy to see The Tarnished Angels is one of three Sirks that qualifies for the all-time list, outranking a few of his more well-known ones that ranked higher in the final list. As I said way back at the start of this thread, I think it's his secret masterpiece. Also surprised that, not only did someone else save The Member of the Wedding from orphanhood, but they ranked it higher than me!

My top 10, also-rans, and orphans:

1. Rear Window
2. Vertigo
3. Kiss Me Deadly
4. Sweet Smell of Success
5. Diary of a Country Priest
6. In a Lonely Place
7. All About Eve
8. Sunset Boulevard
9. The Tarnished Angels
10. The Big Heat

Also-Rans:
A Movie (Bruce Conner, 1958) 34/2/20/-181
A Star Is Born (George Cukor, 1954) 91/5/29/New
A Time to Love and a Time to Die (Douglas Sirk, 1958) 120/5/20(x2)/+78
Bend of the River (Anthony Mann, 1952) 19/2/38/-145
Deadline U.S.A. (Richard Brooks, 1952) 30/2/34/New
High Noon (Fred Zinnemann, 1952) 93/3(1)/2/-24
Le Beau Serge (Claude Chabrol, 1958) 48/2(1)/8/-3
Le notti bianche (Luchino Visconti, 1957) 97/4(1)/3/New
One Froggy Evening (Chuck Jones, 1955) 65/3/15/New
Roman Holiday (William Wyler, 1953) 74/3/21/+7
Tea and Sympathy (Vincente Minnelli, 1956) 69/3/18/New
The Breaking Point (Michael Curtiz, 1950) 78/3/22/New
The Member of the Wedding (Fred Zinnemann, 1952) 67/2/12/New
The World of Apu (Satyajit Ray, 1959) 43/2/16/-147
Touchez pas au grisbi (Jacques Becker, 1954) 40/2/26/-82

Orphans:
Beat the Devil
Bridges-Go-Round
Les Girls
The Flame and the Arrow
The Mating Season
The Model and the Marriage Broker
The Pajama Game

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#896 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:16 pm

It's been heartening to hear several voices grant The Tarnished Angels that accolade, including HDTS who hasn't been shy about sharing his Sirk-expertise. It's certainly my favorite of his dramatic works.

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#897 Post by Rayon Vert » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:00 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:23 pm
It seems like a lot of folks drank the coolaid during this project and many came away impressed. I could see it growing on others who choose to revisit it, as it did for me, and would probably make my personal All-Time top 50 if I submitted a list today.
Yup.

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domino harvey
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#898 Post by domino harvey » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:05 pm

No subs yet but Leopoldo Torre Nilsson's Elsa Daniel-starring Graciela just popped up on back channels. Go contribute to its pot!

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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#899 Post by dustybooks » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:28 pm

Been catching up on a lot of major '50s titles I hadn't seen lately. I loved both Bad Day at Black Rock and The Asphalt Jungle, which wasn't hugely surprising -- the latter was enhanced by my having read the novel by W.R. Burnett about a year ago. It is an extremely faithful adaptation but the casting made it an equally memorable experience to the book. I had lots of admiration for A Star Is Born (truly monumental performance by Garland) and Imitation of Life but have to conclude that neither is really in my wheelhouse for whatever reason. I'm still a Sirk neophyte and I will probably get more out of Imitation on revisit, since so much of it is radically reframed by the treatment of the ending (which, just as the lady at the library warned me, brought out the free-flowing tears) but I'm not entirely sure his specific brand of melodrama does as much for me as it does for others... I've got All That Heaven Allows on the docket for next week, though.

I came here to talk about Bob le Flambeur, though, which is a film I found almost hilariously frustrating.
SpoilerShow
Again I completely understand why it's so widely admired and what the narrative structure is working toward, but the experience of actually watching it (maybe not helped by the fact that I did so very quickly after John Huston's film, not realizing both were "heist" pictures) made me feel very much like Milhouse in "fireworks factory" mode.
Lately I've seen two films that are frequently billed as precursors to Nouvelle Vague and, admitting that I am very much an amateur at this kind of thing, I'm not entirely sure I see the resemblance, at least as a viewing experience as opposed to just judging on production technique. The only common ground I note with Bob le Flambeur and, say, Breathless is the use of city locations and the presence of a few abrupt cuts here and there. Otherwise it's vastly more conventional and formal, or at least plays that way for me, unless the qualification is that it's a relatively gritty French film about crime in which case I'd more readily call up Pepe le Moko or La Bete Humaine which I like a great deal more.

(The other Nouvelle Vague forerunner I've lately seen is Varda's La Pointe Courte which I found absolutely stirring visually and rather forgettable as narrative. In my mind I'd align it much more with neorealism and Visconti, but I realize it's not an either/or thing, and I know Varda mentioned not being familiar with those films at the time.)

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knives
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Re: The 1950s List: Discussion and Suggestions

#900 Post by knives » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:52 pm

I think Bob, and Melville in general, works best when seen through the lens of the queer art which connects well with his namesake as well. I don’t think Bob is one of his best, but as a gay movie dealing with male bonding and competing desires for coming out it’s a fascinating one to think about.

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