Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

Milestone, Flicker Alley, Oscilloscope, Cinema Guild...they're all here.
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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3726 Post by dwk » Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:11 am

Kino announced a Fu Manchu double feature Blu-ray: The Mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu (1929) & The Return of Dr. Fu Manchu (1930)

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3727 Post by FrauBlucher » Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:05 pm

Coming Soon on Blu-ray!
Brand New 2K Master!

So Proudly We Hail (1946) - Starring Claudette Colbert, Paulette Goddard, Veronica Lake, Barbara Britton & George Reeves – Shot by Charles Lang (Sudden Fear) – Music by Miklós Rózsa (The Killers) – Directed by Mark Sandrich (Top Hat).

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3728 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:23 pm

Hell yes, I wondered why they hadn’t licensed it yet. Fantastic and downbeat movie, and proof that Veronica Lake could have been considered as more than a sex symbol if she’d been given more opportunities like this

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3729 Post by dwk » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:23 pm

Well, over at the Blu-ray forum, the Kino Insider is getting defensive about a couple issues with their Silence of the Lambs UHD (the first 20 minutes is in the wrong color space and the 2.0 track is a downmix of the 5.1 remix and isn't the original track.)

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3730 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:06 pm

Image

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3731 Post by domino harvey » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:17 pm

Kino is fully committed to a volume strategy at this point, which makes it a numbers game on whether whichever release of theirs you pick up has issues or not (and, to be fair, most don’t). I’ll take the risk since they are digging deep into studio vaults and releasing a LOT of movies that are never gonna get another chance like this

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captveg
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3732 Post by captveg » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:16 pm

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

The Killing of Sister George (1968) (BD) (DVD still available)
Running Wild (1927) (BD) (DVD still available)

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Ribs
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3733 Post by Ribs » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:46 pm

I definitely thought the saturation looked off - either too low or too sickly green as has been reported (I did some little adjustments to correct it in the TV settings so didn’t notice the issue went away). It is definitely noticeable and in any normal situation should reasonably have been caught in QC - but Kino’s approach to this set of UHDs seems to have been getting to these movies first rather than doing them right (hence the rush to something like Great Escape without an HDR pass when there’s clearly another label that would probably be open to doing one for it if they could have a year or two to loop back to it). I of course love them doubling down on UHD with so many releases on the docket so quickly but I cannot say I will feel bad if this turns into an extremely expensive replacement program (as the error seems to be on Kino’s end, they would then be out the costs of remastering the UHD transfer and the still pricey 4K disc production costs).

Calvin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3734 Post by Calvin » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:59 pm

It seems like the same error is present on the On Demand version from MGM, so is inherent to the master they received. Though they should have noticed.

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captveg
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3735 Post by captveg » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:55 pm

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

A Game of Death (1945) (BD) (DVD still available)
Invitation to a Gunfighter (1964) (DVD) (BD still available)
Killer Force (1976) (DVD) (BD still available)
Loophole (1981) (DVD) (BD still available)
The Marrying Man (1991) (DVD) (BD still available)
Trapeze (1956) (BD) (DVD still available)

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Finch
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3736 Post by Finch » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:03 pm

KLI has confirmed on the other forum that you basically have to suck it up and that they won't be replacing their SOTL UHD. The Criterion Blu-Ray it is then for anyone that wants the entire film in the correct color space and the correct original 2.0 track. I don't like the film enough to want to own it and I appreciate the cock up was at MGM's end but their attitude towards customers who have presented incontrovertible evidence is pitiful. I, for one, won't be buying any Kino product until it's been out for a few weeks and there is enough of a consensus that the disc in question is not compromised. dom is right Kino do release films other labels won't touch but their volume strategy also means buying without checking on forums first is not totally without risk. And their representatives really can go fuck themselves.
Last edited by Finch on Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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senseabove
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3737 Post by senseabove » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:17 pm

Another poster pointed out that KL were given what is pretty clearly an ancient DVD master for their release of Pool of London and no one noticed. It's almost hard to believe that anyone in the home video business could look at this and think "yeah, that's surely the HD master we were promised"...

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CSM126
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3738 Post by CSM126 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:33 pm

I’m galled at them not only refusing to acknowledge the error on SotL, but then actually trying to order the posters to stop asking about it! What a miserable excuse for public relations. I own one Kino disc and, well… I think that’s enough. I don’t support shitheels if I can avoid it.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3739 Post by tenia » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:27 am

Kino got to Kino.

Calvin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3740 Post by Calvin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:08 am

While the evidence is plain to see, Kino will (and have) point to the fact that supposedly 'professional' reviewers have given it glowing reviews - 5 stars from Svet, another rave at DVDBeaver... If they were discerning enough then Kino might be more inclined to take issues like this seriously as ultimately their main concern is if it will affect sales.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3741 Post by tenia » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:43 am

I actually wonder, in the sense that it has been made clear that Kino work volume over quality and are not staffed enough for more QC (which itself makes me roll my eyes as someone working as an industrial engineer for a decade now - you either are staffed to do things right or shouldn't do them at all), but also that several labels are taking quality seriously enough that they never needed to be impacted by bundles of bad reviews (and, I suppose, a dip in sales) to realise corrective actions were needed.

Moreover, let's face it : even for such a technophilic medium such as UHD, out of whatever thousands copies Kino pressed, how many will be sold to people who couldn't even spot the issue when shown to them in the most obvious manner ? And how will think it's not really acceptable ?
Fortunately, not all labels think like this, otherwise there would pretty much never be any continuous technical improvement since so few people can spot it.

I'd say it rather enlightens about the priorities with such a company and where the quality bar is set.

Orlac
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3742 Post by Orlac » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 am

This is why people on forums annoy me when they post stuff like "I didn't see anything wrong, I was enjoying the movie."

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3743 Post by MichaelB » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:15 am

Orlac wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 am
This is why people on forums annoy me when they post stuff like "I didn't see anything wrong, I was enjoying the movie."
What the guy actually said was:
I must have very low standards (or duff equipment), but it looked fine to me; maybe I was enjoying the film too much to focus on the transfer.
Which seems to me to be a completely reasonable response, not least because he took the trouble to qualify it from the start. It certainly didn't deserve that level of aggression on your part.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3744 Post by tenia » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:47 am

To be fair, it's a totally acceptable response as it qualifies the level of expectations and the awareness of it, but they usually are phrased as sarcastic and a way to make those who saw the issue and mentioned it as nitpickers, pixel-peepers and other armchair-expertise-related names, ie they're the ones who should be happy with what they're getting, not the other ones who can't spot the issue hence why we shouldn't care about the issue.

I remember a note from an AVS Forum user stating "Not seeing the problem is different from the problem not existing". Those comments are often a way of relativising the visibility of the problem and thus the existence of the problem itself, at least how much attention should be given to it.

But either there is a problem or there's not. There's one here, and that's that. Everything else is just a matter of whether you care or not about it, if it's a problem big enough for you or not.
But there's still a problem no matter what.

And of course, it makes from a wonderful deterrent for labels not wanting to be more careful technically : 99% of the people can't spot the issue, so the issue is negligible and those who spotted it are just looking for trouble.

I had a discussion a few days ago that ended up with the other person using this kind of line to ridicule me. "I hope you can still watch movies in a normal fashion". Well yes, but that still doesn't prevent me spotting issues so if I can do both, why should I stop ? Just because he can't ?
(Yes, that discussion was extremely laborious and frustrating considering the rhetoric I got served)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3745 Post by MichaelB » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:06 am

For the benefit of those who didn't follow my link, the poster that Orlac/[Redacted] was berating so needlessly aggressively was talking about the BFI's Invasion of the Body Snatchers, which as far as I'm aware doesn't suffer from any technical problems over and above the fact that it's an elderly transfer from less than optimum materials. Which I'd argue is a different situation from the Silence of the Lambs one, which would appear to be an unambiguous technical cock-up that should have been spotted at the QC stage.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3746 Post by tenia » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:15 am

I'd argue the origins of the limitations doesn't change much to the matter. In the end, these arguments are most often a way to shrug the shoulders at the limitations and suggest to move on because it's not so bad, just focus on the damn movie and stop looking at the technique so much.
It matters so little that this quote could perfectly fit Silence of the Lambs (and I'm quite sure there are equivalents of it for this one on the Internet, just like there often have been for most of Kino's - and others' - problematic discs).

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3747 Post by swo17 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:25 am

So there's the cost of replacing the disc and then the cost of actually fixing the issue. If memory serves, the last issue they fixed was for Lust, Caution, which entailed reinstating I think four burned-in subtitles. I believe there was already a file ready that had them, meaning the only cost was to replicate a new version of the disc and ship it out. In other cases where someone might have to perform a little more surgery, is Kino in a position to do that themselves, or are they reaching back out to their source to do it? Is that source flat out telling them no, or are they quoting a cost for it that Kino doesn't think is worth paying?

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3748 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:39 am

With the SOTL issue, as Calvin notes, the fact the same problem is present on the streaming version in HDR would indicate the master itself has been clipped, in which case Kino would not be able to correct the issue themselves (nor did they cause it). They would have to get MGM to acknowledge the problem and then have them pull the relevant files and essentially redo those 20 minutes, from a stage before the error was introduced. It was always a long shot to be honest and would take a far more scrupulous label to communicate with MGM and get it corrected than Kino. If we take them at their word they can't even see the issue.

Personally I could live with it. But the fact the disc is also missing the superior 2.0 mix (as identified by Moshrom), means I'll be sticking with the Criterion and waiting to see if a UK/EU label manage to licence the film for a definitive release.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3749 Post by tenia » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:38 am

The issue is that following this rabbit hole, it means that each time a technical issue happen upstream, we're bound to get a problematic disc nevertheless, because Kino doesn't have the money to manage to fix something they haven't caught in the first place and that is not their fault anyway.
Not only I tend to think that other labels would have been able to manage this issue, but it means that we have to accept getting faulty discs from Kino because they, what, just sometimes can't do better anyway ?

Imagine applying this to, say, an appliance manufacturer. "Well, we do produce microwaves but whenever a supplier screws up, you just have to deal wity the defective microwaves because we just have the money to buy the parts and assemble them, not deal with defective parts".

You can't just be organised for cases where everything is fine, you also has to be able to deal with possible issues, be staffed for this but also be able to financially or contractually handle it.

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3750 Post by dwk » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 am

swo17 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:25 am
So there's the cost of replacing the disc and then the cost of actually fixing the issue. If memory serves, the last issue they fixed was for Lust, Caution, which entailed reinstating I think four burned-in subtitles. I believe there was already a file ready that had them, meaning the only cost was to replicate a new version of the disc and ship it out. In other cases where someone might have to perform a little more surgery, is Kino in a position to do that themselves, or are they reaching back out to their source to do it? Is that source flat out telling them no, or are they quoting a cost for it that Kino doesn't think is worth paying?
And Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, but, again, in that case they just had to put the actual 4K transfer on the disc.

The Lust, Caution fix was something I half-joked about, saying they only fixed it because Universal had the corrected version, which lead to the Kino Indsider calling me a moron over at the Blu-ray forums.

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