490 Wings of Desire
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- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:02 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
And what lesson is that? Don't buy the technically superior product because there may be a slight issue with 1 out of a 100 or more releases that will pose a minor inconvenience until the matter is resolved? I'll continue to take my chances with Blu.
To cdnchris - that's odd that it was having problems in your PC, but not the PS3. Whenever behavior is inconsistent between players, my first guess is always firmware (or just software updates in case of the PC). If there was something physically unreadable on the disc, you'd figure the PS3 would choke on it as well. It's just that Criterion isn't known for show-boatey features like the major studios (U-Control, internet connectivity, etc.), so I can't imagine what is on the Wings of Desire disc that would cause firmware issues. It'll be interesting to see if people are able to get it to play on other Blu-ray players.
To cdnchris - that's odd that it was having problems in your PC, but not the PS3. Whenever behavior is inconsistent between players, my first guess is always firmware (or just software updates in case of the PC). If there was something physically unreadable on the disc, you'd figure the PS3 would choke on it as well. It's just that Criterion isn't known for show-boatey features like the major studios (U-Control, internet connectivity, etc.), so I can't imagine what is on the Wings of Desire disc that would cause firmware issues. It'll be interesting to see if people are able to get it to play on other Blu-ray players.
- Fiery Angel
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
I had no problems playing it on my Samsung Blu, FWIW.
- Tribe
- The Bastard Spawn of Hank Williams
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
It was a joke, for Chrissakes!bevilacq12 wrote:And what lesson is that? Don't buy the technically superior product because there may be a slight issue with 1 out of a 100 or more releases that will pose a minor inconvenience until the matter is resolved? I'll continue to take my chances with Blu.
- Napier
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:48 am
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Sounds like you just pissed someone from Criterion off.Tribe wrote:It was a joke, for Chrissakes!bevilacq12 wrote:And what lesson is that? Don't buy the technically superior product because there may be a slight issue with 1 out of a 100 or more releases that will pose a minor inconvenience until the matter is resolved? I'll continue to take my chances with Blu.
Edit: BTW, my copy of Wings Blu-ray's, PS3,s and PJ's fine.
Edit: And I sincerely believe it's one of the most beautiful films, I've seen transferred to home video yet. Truly what Criterion and other studios should be doing right now. This kind of stuff will get my money every time. =D>
- cdnchris
- Site Admin
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
That's what I figured. As far as I can tell my software is up to date on the computer so I'm not sure what the issue was. Just thought I'd mention it since someone else mentioned an issue. But yeah, it played fine on my PS3 so I didn't bother mentioning it before.bevilacq12 wrote: To cdnchris - that's odd that it was having problems in your PC, but not the PS3. Whenever behavior is inconsistent between players, my first guess is always firmware (or just software updates in case of the PC). If there was something physically unreadable on the disc, you'd figure the PS3 would choke on it as well. It's just that Criterion isn't known for show-boatey features like the major studios (U-Control, internet connectivity, etc.), so I can't imagine what is on the Wings of Desire disc that would cause firmware issues. It'll be interesting to see if people are able to get it to play on other Blu-ray players.
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- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:02 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Sorry, guess my sarcasm detector is broken today. I apologize.Tribe wrote:It was a joke, for Chrissakes!bevilacq12 wrote:And what lesson is that? Don't buy the technically superior product because there may be a slight issue with 1 out of a 100 or more releases that will pose a minor inconvenience until the matter is resolved? I'll continue to take my chances with Blu.
- Arkadin
- Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:58 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
good to see that there are discs out there with no scratches.
Another report came in at avs of someone getting one of the possibly problematic discs, but he hasn't been able to watch it yet.
at least we know not all the discs are affected so that's great news.
and we still actually aren't sure if the scratched ones always lead to an issue in playability.
anyway, I've watched about an hour of the film so far, and no issues so far.
so hopefully things will stay that way.
Another report came in at avs of someone getting one of the possibly problematic discs, but he hasn't been able to watch it yet.
at least we know not all the discs are affected so that's great news.
and we still actually aren't sure if the scratched ones always lead to an issue in playability.
anyway, I've watched about an hour of the film so far, and no issues so far.
so hopefully things will stay that way.
Last edited by Arkadin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
My disc had no scratches, and the feature played just fine. Has anyone had problems playing any of the extras? I haven't watched any of those yet.
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- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:02 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Alright, got my BD copy today.
I did notice the "scratches" mentioned, but most likely only because I was looking for them. I have a hundred DVDs or BDs with similar label defects (many much more prominent), and have never had a problem. Looking at it closely, it doesn't look like a scratch gouged away the label - just that the initial application of the label was slightly faulty in that area. There is another part of the label near the outer edge where there is a slight raised area, but that also seems benign.
I watched the movie and all of the supplements this evening without any trouble whatsoever. I'd wager the guy with the freezing just had a single fluke disc, and he would have been fine if he had exchanged it for the second copy at the store, label scratch or no label scratch.
I did notice the "scratches" mentioned, but most likely only because I was looking for them. I have a hundred DVDs or BDs with similar label defects (many much more prominent), and have never had a problem. Looking at it closely, it doesn't look like a scratch gouged away the label - just that the initial application of the label was slightly faulty in that area. There is another part of the label near the outer edge where there is a slight raised area, but that also seems benign.
I watched the movie and all of the supplements this evening without any trouble whatsoever. I'd wager the guy with the freezing just had a single fluke disc, and he would have been fine if he had exchanged it for the second copy at the store, label scratch or no label scratch.
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- Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:16 am
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Received my BD yesterday but not had chance to watch it.
Had assumed until the post above that we were referring to 'scratches' on the playing surface of the disc.
I did happen to notice with my copy the playing surface being free from scratches yet on the label side about 2 deep scratches which had gouged away part of the label.
Am just hoping this will have no effect with playback but won't get chance to watch disc for a few days or so!!
Had assumed until the post above that we were referring to 'scratches' on the playing surface of the disc.
I did happen to notice with my copy the playing surface being free from scratches yet on the label side about 2 deep scratches which had gouged away part of the label.
Am just hoping this will have no effect with playback but won't get chance to watch disc for a few days or so!!
- Peacock
- Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:47 pm
- Location: Scotland
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
So how does the Criterion compare with the Axiom?
- ShellOilJunior
- Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:17 am
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Bad pressings are rare but they do happen.
Several years back I went through 3 defective Metropolis discs- Kino version from Barnes and Noble.
In each case the film would go completely green and freeze during the whore of babylon scene.
Several years back I went through 3 defective Metropolis discs- Kino version from Barnes and Noble.
In each case the film would go completely green and freeze during the whore of babylon scene.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
It's not the only one.ShellOilJunior wrote:In each case the film would go completely green and freeze during the whore of babylon scene.
- jbeall
- Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Atlanta-ish
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
So, um, about the film...
Wings of Desire left me a little underwhelmed. It was by no means bad, but (possibly unrealistic) expectations combined with the misfortune of having seen City of Angels back when it came out, combined with an aversion to characters who speak/think in poetry, meant that I just wasn't that into it. Or perhaps the movie is dated?
I'll watch the extras tomorrow, and maybe that'll help me appreciate Wings... more. In the meantime, I was hoping to elicit some discussion as to why this film is so highly regarded.
Wings of Desire left me a little underwhelmed. It was by no means bad, but (possibly unrealistic) expectations combined with the misfortune of having seen City of Angels back when it came out, combined with an aversion to characters who speak/think in poetry, meant that I just wasn't that into it. Or perhaps the movie is dated?
I'll watch the extras tomorrow, and maybe that'll help me appreciate Wings... more. In the meantime, I was hoping to elicit some discussion as to why this film is so highly regarded.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
I'd love to offer a defense, but how do you argue for the poetry of a film against the pejorative use of "poetry" as a descriptor? I don't even understand the criticism to be honest-- you would have preferred your film about angels to be a little more grounded in earthly dialog?
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- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
I'm also a little baffled by that criticism. Did you expect documentary realism? Although what you say brings up an interesting notion, and who knows, maybe it'll help your appreciation.
Personally, I like the poetics of the "observing angel" segments of the film. It captures a whole different way of perceiving, when one is limited to seeing and hearing (to cinema). An angel has a life which becomes an act of observation. They derive joy and wonder from the most fleeting moments and details -- the way the light hits a stream or something a child says to its mother. One of my favorite scenes is where the two angels share stories while sitting in a car. Mostly, though, these observations (and the emotions they elicit) are expressed through poetic voice-over. The choice of poetry has several effects. First off, I think we are naturally inclined to associate something like angels with a more elevated form of speech, something detached from practicality; the nature of the world Wenders' develops supports this separation. So poetry is both a signifier and a divider -- they are angels, and they are apart from us. Secondly, the poetry often possesses beauty, a beauty which is used to soothe the souls of humans (both diegetic fictional humans, and perhaps us) and to evoke the austere wonder of the angels' lives.
At the same time, however, I think the poetry serves another function which runs counter to these effects. It has to do with the division (between angel/human) that its usage suggests. The poetry is perhaps beautiful, but we might also find it stale, sometimes dreary, eventually tiresome. We might have the reaction you had, where we don't want to hear poetry, we just want to hear people speak. And I think this approach strongly supports the primary narrative and thematic thrust of the film, the angel leaving its rarefied position to accept mortality and the human experience. We abandon poetry when the angel becomes a man -- he speaks awkwardly if at all, people have normal and completely unpoetic exchanges. It lacks the self-aware elegance that the angelic poetry does, but the frame is filled with color and we feel much closer to these people, now that they talk like we do.
Essentially, I feel like the poetry simultaneously expresses the beauty and the limitations of the angelic lifestyle, so to speak, created by the film. We may find beauty in it but we find respite and familiarity in the color sequences, the human life. The angelic world is a fine place to visit, but we wouldn't like to live there. We only come close to poetry again once, I think: when the man (formerly an angel) confronts the trapeze girl. It's the scene in the film I'm most ambivalent about, but maybe it's a different sort of poetry, a different sort of transcendent experience.
That's how I see it, and I admire how the film uses the poetic language on so many levels all at once.
Personally, I like the poetics of the "observing angel" segments of the film. It captures a whole different way of perceiving, when one is limited to seeing and hearing (to cinema). An angel has a life which becomes an act of observation. They derive joy and wonder from the most fleeting moments and details -- the way the light hits a stream or something a child says to its mother. One of my favorite scenes is where the two angels share stories while sitting in a car. Mostly, though, these observations (and the emotions they elicit) are expressed through poetic voice-over. The choice of poetry has several effects. First off, I think we are naturally inclined to associate something like angels with a more elevated form of speech, something detached from practicality; the nature of the world Wenders' develops supports this separation. So poetry is both a signifier and a divider -- they are angels, and they are apart from us. Secondly, the poetry often possesses beauty, a beauty which is used to soothe the souls of humans (both diegetic fictional humans, and perhaps us) and to evoke the austere wonder of the angels' lives.
At the same time, however, I think the poetry serves another function which runs counter to these effects. It has to do with the division (between angel/human) that its usage suggests. The poetry is perhaps beautiful, but we might also find it stale, sometimes dreary, eventually tiresome. We might have the reaction you had, where we don't want to hear poetry, we just want to hear people speak. And I think this approach strongly supports the primary narrative and thematic thrust of the film, the angel leaving its rarefied position to accept mortality and the human experience. We abandon poetry when the angel becomes a man -- he speaks awkwardly if at all, people have normal and completely unpoetic exchanges. It lacks the self-aware elegance that the angelic poetry does, but the frame is filled with color and we feel much closer to these people, now that they talk like we do.
Essentially, I feel like the poetry simultaneously expresses the beauty and the limitations of the angelic lifestyle, so to speak, created by the film. We may find beauty in it but we find respite and familiarity in the color sequences, the human life. The angelic world is a fine place to visit, but we wouldn't like to live there. We only come close to poetry again once, I think: when the man (formerly an angel) confronts the trapeze girl. It's the scene in the film I'm most ambivalent about, but maybe it's a different sort of poetry, a different sort of transcendent experience.
That's how I see it, and I admire how the film uses the poetic language on so many levels all at once.
- jbeall
- Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Atlanta-ish
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Wow--fantastic reply, karmajuice. Thank you so much.
FWIW, I don't regard poetry as a "pejorative descriptor." I wasn't commenting on it in any aesthetically evaluative sense, but rather my initial personal response.
However, I am resistant to the notion that poetry is inherently better than or elevated over prose, an argument that has an irritating persistence in lit circles. I get that this division between poetic and prosaic speech is central to the film's aesthetic, but at the same time, Damiel says that the angels learned language from humans, so it's not as if poetry then exists, even within the film, as a "pure" language that's then corrupted into prose. If anything, it's the poetic language that's somehow inferior precisely because as you point out, it's detached from the practicality of everyday use, a fascinating twist to be sure. If the angels learned language--both prosaic and poetic--from humans, then their use of the latter is a conscious choice rather than the result of an aptitude limited by their celestial status. There's an essentialism manifested in the angels' poetic language that just doesnt' ring true to me.
Just to be clear, none of what I'm saying contradicts your argument, which is very convincing. I'm just saying that even within the logic of Wings's aesthetic, I find the division between angelic/poetic and human/prosaic speech less effective than the use of b&w vs. color or the ability of humans to touch objects vs. the "pretense" of an angel picking up a pen.
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughtful reply, which has indeed helped me to appreciate the film a great deal more (even as I quibble with it).
FWIW, I don't regard poetry as a "pejorative descriptor." I wasn't commenting on it in any aesthetically evaluative sense, but rather my initial personal response.
However, I am resistant to the notion that poetry is inherently better than or elevated over prose, an argument that has an irritating persistence in lit circles. I get that this division between poetic and prosaic speech is central to the film's aesthetic, but at the same time, Damiel says that the angels learned language from humans, so it's not as if poetry then exists, even within the film, as a "pure" language that's then corrupted into prose. If anything, it's the poetic language that's somehow inferior precisely because as you point out, it's detached from the practicality of everyday use, a fascinating twist to be sure. If the angels learned language--both prosaic and poetic--from humans, then their use of the latter is a conscious choice rather than the result of an aptitude limited by their celestial status. There's an essentialism manifested in the angels' poetic language that just doesnt' ring true to me.
Just to be clear, none of what I'm saying contradicts your argument, which is very convincing. I'm just saying that even within the logic of Wings's aesthetic, I find the division between angelic/poetic and human/prosaic speech less effective than the use of b&w vs. color or the ability of humans to touch objects vs. the "pretense" of an angel picking up a pen.
I'm also ambivalent about this scene, probably because not long before, she was taking delight in the worldly pleasures of drinking with her fellow carnies and feeling alive. She comes across as a little too idealized, even after Damiel, now a human, meets her in real life. Perhaps it's a different sort of poetry, but to me this scene works against so much of what the film's been doing for the previous two hours.karmajuice wrote: We only come close to poetry again once, I think: when the man (formerly an angel) confronts the trapeze girl. It's the scene in the film I'm most ambivalent about, but maybe it's a different sort of poetry, a different sort of transcendent experience.
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughtful reply, which has indeed helped me to appreciate the film a great deal more (even as I quibble with it).
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Further to this, poetry / prose is another one of the many, many divisions and dualities around which the film is structured - Heaven / Earth; youth / age; weight / weightlessness; colour / black & white - and which the action of the film works to reconcile / resolve. Though the fundamental division - that between West and East Berlin - would take a few more years and a sequel to sort out.
- Will Barks
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Some things I asked myself after viewing:
Why are English titles used for a German film? (I thought CC would always release the most original version of a film.)
Why did Criterion use DNR? I thought they respect the original grain?
Aside from that this film was a revelation and I'm very happy that Criterion decided to release it on Blu-ray.
Why are English titles used for a German film? (I thought CC would always release the most original version of a film.)
Why did Criterion use DNR? I thought they respect the original grain?
Aside from that this film was a revelation and I'm very happy that Criterion decided to release it on Blu-ray.
- Highway 61
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:40 pm
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Wenders had the designer of the titles create unique versions for various languages. He also didn't like the way "The Heavens Above Berlin" sounded in English, so he renamed the film Wings of Desire. He says all this at the beginning of the commentary track (or at least on the earlier MGM one), even saying that he has come to prefer the English title.Will Barks wrote:Why are English titles used for a German film? (I thought CC would always release the most original version of a film.)
- ccfixx
- Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:37 pm
- Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
Also, Wim Wenders approved the transfer that Criterion used, so I can't imagine that leaves too much room for argument toward the final product that Criterion released to the public.Will Barks wrote:Some things I asked myself after viewing:
Why did Criterion use DNR? I thought they respect the original grain?
- mikkelmark
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:00 am
- Location: Denmark
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
But does Wim Wenders know what DNR and EE is? Could ask the same question for many of the other directors/dp who approves Criterions prints.ccfixx wrote:Also, Wim Wenders approved the transfer that Criterion used, so I can't imagine that leaves too much room for argument toward the final product that Criterion released to the public.Will Barks wrote:Some things I asked myself after viewing:
Why did Criterion use DNR? I thought they respect the original grain?
- zachhh
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:41 pm
- Location: florida
Re: 490 Wings of Desire
i ordered my copy yesterday and the b&w looks so nice and crisp. the old MGM transfer looked greenish
- Spielbergo
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
I watched this film two days ago and experienced playback issues on my Samsung BD player.
It was shortly after the old man gets out of the public library and tries to find that old platz of his younger years. The frame freezes for a few seconds and then skips either seconds or minutes - and the subtitles get stuck for a considerable amount of seconds...
It was shortly after the old man gets out of the public library and tries to find that old platz of his younger years. The frame freezes for a few seconds and then skips either seconds or minutes - and the subtitles get stuck for a considerable amount of seconds...
- cdnchris
- Site Admin
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Re: 490 Wings of Desire
That's the exact same spot I was running into issues when I was taking screen captures. It played fine on the PS3, but when I went to take captures it hosed up at that spot. Through force and sheer will I was finally able to get it to work.