491 Z

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Message
Author
User avatar
Mr Sausage
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#51 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:18 pm

Black Hat wrote:
Mr Sausage wrote:It's absurdist in its presentation ('and then there was martial law. The end'). It didn't seem like a part of the diegesis so much as a comment by the filmmakers on the political content of their own movie, that the kinds of things listed in the scroll of words are the inevitable result of the abuse of institutional power.

Or did you guys somehow seriously believe I'm of the opinion that banning books and curtailing freedoms isn't a very real and common thing?
No I certainly don't hence why I was confused by what you had written. Your point that the presentation was absurdist I don't think is correct either as the term places a trivial value on what is very much specific which I would argue was a logical continuation of a narrative based on realism.
There is something absurd in how the fall of western civilization follows so easily from the cover-up of one assassination, so much so that the movie can jump over everything in the middle as tho' it were unnecessary to even enumerate. And yet there is nothing about it that rings false. The ease and naturalness with which freedoms are lost ought to be absurd.

The disagreement with me comes, I suspect, because you're using oppositions that I'm not. More than that: absurdity has been the rhetorical vehicle of the most serious criticism, satire, and outrage for centuries, so consider our disagreement on this point to be fundamental.
Warren Oates wrote:I know what you mean, but at the same time these details are part of what I've also found most striking and prescient about the film. Isn't part of why they were so brazen and sloppy because it never occurred to them that they wouldn't get away with it? These plausibly deniable plain clothes paramilitary thugs agitating the crowd and striking in the open, with total impunity. We've seen these kinds of political enforcers in totalitarian governments around the world since -- especially the motorbike riding and truncheon wielding Basij in Iran during the Green Movement election protests in 2009. The staging of the attack also echoes the way so many other leaders around the world at the time were killed in front of or in the midst of huge crowds.
I very much said so in my post. I'm really not all that interested in comparing the movie to real political events (what's the point? I think we all know how accurate this movie is by now) but to similar movies, and it's instructive how slick later Hollywood makes assassinations in comparison. But then I think the method used in Z was based on a real one, so I've already wandered into a contradiction. Oh well.

User avatar
warren oates
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#52 Post by warren oates » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:47 pm

For me, when it comes to all of the Costra-Gavras films I've seen, one of the things I admire most is how he's able to capture troubling aspects of a particular historical reality and translate them into more universal terms. There's a long sequence in the beginning of Missing, for example, that, though it's set in the very particular time and place of 1973's Chile, also strikes me as the best example I've seen in a fiction film of what it feels like to be living in a country whose government suddenly collapses in a military coup. And it's that same "inspired by true events yet slightly abstract" accuracy I still admire in Z. Any idiot can tell a true story. But it takes a great director to understand and portray the essence of real events so that the audience can see them even more clearly. It's the difference between United 93 and Flight 93.

User avatar
martin
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:16 am
Contact:

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#53 Post by martin » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:03 pm

One ting I noticed while watching the film was the lack of use of subjective camera (in terms of POV). The film is mostly shot objectively, even during chase scenes where a POV would perhaps create more paranoia. This film has an ensemble cast, of course, and not just one protagonist like Hitchcock thrillers (such as The 39 Steps or North by Northwest). Therefore the use of objective camera makes sense, I guess. We are not supposed to identify with any particular character.

But there are a few subjective shots too, like when people are looking out of a window and we see their view. And there's a particularly striking early scene with Yves Montand sitting at the opposite side of a desk with a colonel. Yves looks up at a framed photo of a king and a queen hanging above the colonel. But the king and queen's faces are hidden - apparently because of light reflecting in the glass! This struck me as a very odd use of subjective camera. He doesn't see their faces. Does he see them as disfigured because they're ideologically distanced?

I was eager to hear if Costa-Gavras had anything to say about this, so I listened to his commentary track on the Wellspring DVD. He says the photo was a real photo of Greece's King Paul and Queen Federica, and Costa-Gavras decided to block their faces in order to hide their identity (and probably to avoid linking the film to a particular place and time).

I listened on, and a few minutes later he talked about Yves' flashback which may answer a question posted earlier in this thread:

Yves' real-life character (Grigoris Lambrakis) was apparently known for having many affairs, and Costa-Gavras wanted to reflect this in the film but didn't have much time for that part. Hence the brief flashback. What happens is this, I think: Yves sees an attractive girl in the window. As she places a wig, he remembers an earlier affair he had in his clinic. But he also remembers that his wife appeared at that very moment. The scene is supposed to tell us that Yves' character is flirtatious, but also that there is some sexual tension/jealousy between him and his wife (and perhaps some bad conscience too?). I agree it doesn't come through very well during this brief flashback.

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#54 Post by Drucker » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:47 pm

The way the camera moves absolutely stuck out to me early on, and one comment I was going to make but hadn't: early on it almost feels like a documentary. The camera is following these people, seems to occasionally switch focus and give its attention to something that seems separated from the primary action (the first time we see Trintignant, for example, it feels that way.) Another scene is after the attack that comes after the demonstration as we follow the people that chase down their would-be attackers, it really feels like a documentary/news crew following along. As the film goes on and the narrative takes different shapes, this feeling went away for me. But early on it was very engaging.

User avatar
Sloper
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:06 pm

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#55 Post by Sloper » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:42 pm

That moment just after the assassination when the camera decides to jump on the back of the truck is, for me, just about the best bit of the film, though in this case I'm not sure I agree that it has a documentary feel to it. Certainly there's a freewheeling spirit at work there, a sense that the film can decide (almost on a whim) to pursue whatever seems like the most exciting avenue at any given moment, even though we might have expected it to remain with Montand and his followers to see the aftermath of the attack, or at least to cut between them a bit. There's a good reason why it doesn't happen that way, of course - later on, we'll see the assassination again from various angles, and Manuel's testimony to the magistrate shows us what happens next, heightens the sense of tragedy (through that slightly overwrought slow-motion replay of Montand falling to his knees), etc.

But when we first see the assassination, Costa-Gavras' priority is to provide those 'genre thrills' Warren mentioned earlier, by plunging us into an action set-piece (not unlike the attempted killing of Manuel that precedes his aforementioned testimony) in which the very fact that we're not able to check in on the condition of the film's erstwhile protagonist only adds to the suspense. It might seem absurd to talk about 'suspense' in that context, because we're probably supposed to know, going in, that this is a film about an assassination rather than just a mild skull fracture - but that's why Gavras' handling of this moment is so clever. By getting distracted from what seems to be the central focus of the story, the film creates the sense that there is a lot at stake here, in a way that a more focused and linear approach might not have done.

However, this thrill-chasing spirit also gave me a feeling, at times, that the film was not actually that invested in the 'message' it was trying to put across. On a first viewing, Z struck me as belligerently, thrillingly didactic, and its tremendous vitality seemed inextricable from its ideology - as if the camerawork, editing, acting and so on were all animated by righteous anger. On a second and third viewing, I noticed that 'ideological detachment' was actually one of the central running themes in the film. It begins with the very dull talk on mildew, following which Pierre Dux's character carries on flogging this silly metaphor to within an inch of its life. It's hard to take him seriously as a master-villain when he keeps saying 'mildew' over and over again. With the exception of Dux's comically sycophantic right-hand man (whose exact title I forget - Colonel de la gendarmerie?) and the poor browbeaten guy taking notes ('no need - it's in the circular'…so why are you lecturing us, then?), almost everyone in the room looks bored to tears, and this is even more true of the CROC meeting we get a glimpse of later.

Even those at the top of the pyramid come across as clowns who have no real sense of what they believe or what is driving their actions, while everyone below them is simply trying to get by from one day (or one moment) to the next. The hired thugs are all poignantly uninvested in the cause they're supporting. It's the child-like fig-seller you have to feel most sorry for - look at the way he nervously fingers the toy bear (panda?) dangling from the rear-view mirror of the Colonel's car, while the latter threatens him into doing what he wants, and then look at his pathetically grateful smile as he receives the most meagre promises of reward, a renewed permit or something.

Then there's the fascinating pair of Yago and Vago. They're opposites, in a sense: Yago a terminally repressed hulk, Vago a sort of Loki-esque extrovert. There is a really ambiguous moment, when these two are pausing just on the fringe of the demonstration, before they drive in for the kill. Yago is fiddling with the three-wheeler, and he seems to pause as if listening to Montand's speech, just at the moment when Montand is saying that people like Yago and Vago are tragically oblivious to the way they're exploited, and to the fact that 'our cause is their cause too'. Is there some dim stirring of sympathy for such views in Yago's pause there? Does this moment of weakness help to explain why he stupidly, and completely unnecessarily, tells two separate people that he's been hired to commit a murder, even specifying (to Ilya Coste) whom he is going to kill, as if he kind of wants to be stopped, or caught? Anyway, Yago has this moment of thoughtfulness, and then he notices Vago looking up at the half-dressed young man in the window. 'One-track mind', he says in the subtitle, though I think the actual line might be something like, 'You're thinking about that, even now?' (I may have this wrong). Perhaps Yago is telling his colleague to keep his mind on the job; perhaps he's surprised that Vago hasn't also been drawn in by Montand's rhetoric. In any case, Vago doesn't care about the job or the cause or anything, he's simply a hedonist. The portrayal of his character is uncomfortably homophobic in some ways, but at the same time Vago is kind of the most attractive figure in the film - a lot like Aaron the Moor in Titus Andronicus, he has no meaningful allegiance except to his own desires.

My point is that no one involved in the conspiracy seems to really invest in what they're doing. And as for Montand and his crew, in some respects they do come across as righteous and sympathetic, but overall the emphasis seems far more on the way they bicker fruitlessly with each other, indulge in unhelpful sarcasm and unfocused diatribes (I'm thinking of Manuel, primarily), or are simply dull and ineffectual. Montand is charismatic, no doubt, but even he is brought down to earth by those flashbacks discussed above - not just the ones that show he hasn't been a particularly good husband and is still a bit of a womaniser, but also the ones that Papas has which show him in a more sympathetic light, displaying affection or humane wisdom. He's a flawed human being, capable of love and tenderness, and his wife feels his absence terribly; nice, but what does this have to do with his beliefs, his cause, all the stuff he dies for? To go back to Montand's speech, it's striking that we hear so little of it, and that so much emphasis is instead put on the tensions building outside.

Then there's the journalist. Watching the interviews on the Criterion disc, I was interested that Jacques Perrin saw his character as entering upon the story out of mercenary and exploitative reasons, but then becoming morally invested in what he's doing. This didn't ring entirely true for me… I thought he was an ambivalent figure from start to finish, curiously amoral given that he - along with the magistrate - is the most proactive and effectual 'seeker after truth' in this film. The only moment that really seemed to suggest devotion to the cause on his part was the news broadcast at the end, which as I think someone has noted has a sort of 'covert' feel to it. The moment when his voice is replaced is genuinely chilling, but I'm still left wondering whether he was fighting for the cause or just chasing a particularly exciting 'scoop'. Notice that Pirou tries to object when the journalist wants to publish the story in a popular newspaper; it's as though compromising your principles is compulsory if you want to expose the truth.

The thrust of my argument feels misguided, somehow. Of course this is a didactic film, of course it's committed to the message it's trying to put across. If it doesn't go too far into the specifics of the political issues in play here, and if it does use some distancing effects, that's hardly surprising given the controversial material being dealt with. And when Costa-Gavras says, in one of those archival interviews, that Z isn't a didactic film but simply a good story about a particular dramatic event, he's being at least a little bit disingenuous, and no doubt quite prudent. But he also says that a film should be like a monologue, manipulating the audience on an emotional level, but leaving them to think about the issues raised after the film is over. Perhaps this supports the idea that, while the film is undoubtedly polemical, its primary function is not to persuade us of something, but simply to observe and explore - in a spirit of almost impartial fascination and excitement - some aspects of the workings of power.

This, I think, is what the film is really about: specifically, it focuses on the dynamic between still, fixed points and the highly mobile 'antibodies' that swarm about them doing their bidding. Most obviously this applies to the conspirators and their minions from CROC, but it is also manifested in the relation between the impassive Montand and his nervy associates, or between the inscrutable magistrate walled off behind his tinted glasses and the puppy-eyed, gnat-like journalist.

I have a feeling that this dynamic governs the film's style as well. I'd have to watch it a few more times to back that up, but the title sequence provides one example: it begins with what looks like a cluster of dazzling suns, their light pounding down on us as Theodorakis' confrontational score sets the tone and pace; and yet, the focus shifts to reveal that we are actually just looking at a gaudy badge, a static and lifeless thing; but then the rapid montage of badges and medals imbues even these objects with a kind of dynamism; but the effect is comic, because the point of this imagery is to de-mystify these dazzling emblems of power so that they can be seen for what they are; and no sooner has the title sequence begun than we realise Theodorakis' score has not actually set the tone and pace for what is to come, because suddenly the music has vanished to a background murmur, and we're in a darkened room watching a screamingly tedious lecture about mildew, and then watching near-comatose men watching that lecture; but still, the eccentric close-ups, camera movements and low angle shots maintain that sense of momentum, and the bathos of the scene is offset by the combative non-disclaimer ('It is not coincidental - it is intentional') reminding us how much is at stake in this talk about mildew.

I'm suggesting that this all feeds into the film's observation of a particular dynamic, in which stillness is powerful, untouchable, while movement is vulnerable and exploited; but in which those still points can also, paradoxically, turn out to be comic, bathetic, standing on feet of clay, while those vulnerable and exploited antibodies might ultimately seem to possess a more effectual kind of power, precisely by virtue of their mobility and seeming insignificance.

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969)

#56 Post by Drucker » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:12 pm

Sloper, excellent post again. I'm not trying to reply directly to all of your points, but one thing that sticks out to me that I was trying to get across earlier is your pointing out of the dynamics of the film. I think it's one of the things that made the film so effective to me. The film has no problem upsetting the expectations of the viewer.

The focus early on, again, is on the political protest. After the murder, we have this powerful wife whose presence and recollections seem to have a strong impact on the film. We lastly have an excellent procedural led by the magistrate. But there's also the aside with the witness who tries to come forward. We get flashback sequences interrupting parts of the film.

What I'm trying to get at is that the film doesn't have a singular focus, but strongly comes across as one whole. Even within the sub-sections of the film, the action rarely flows in a truly linear fashion. But by the end, we have such a cohesive whole. A corrupt and often imbecilic political ruling class is able to wrestle control of the country away from the people in the name of supposed democracy. This isn't a unique story to this film, but the stylization is absolutely fantastic. I think it's what keeps the film engaging. While the beginning of the movie feels very us v. them with regards to the citizens, there are many characters in the film who don't really have a horse in the race politically, but know injustice when they see it. Their passion for justice is perhaps the most righteous.

User avatar
jindianajonz
Jindiana Jonz Abrams
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: 491 Z

#57 Post by jindianajonz » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:24 pm

Better late than never, right?

Although I found this film tense and enjoyable as a work of fiction, viewing it as a political work I couldn't get over how blatantly simple and propagandistic it was. One thing I want to say right off the bat: I know practically nothing about the Greek political situation in the 1960s, and and I do not at all mean to exonerate whatever attrocities the regime commited. But throughout the film, I saw evidence that Gavras was using the same tactics that he criticized the regime of using.

My skepti-sense was tingling from the very beginning of the film, when Gavras announced that similarities to real life events are intentional. Gavras is essentially telling the audience to take his word that what we are viewing is a reasonable approximation of how events were actually carried out, while at the same time admitting these aren't really actual events, they are just similar to them. Not only did I think this was asking a lot of the audience, but his desire to tell us he is a reliable narrator in such a slippery way made me enter this film with a fair but of skepticism.

Gavras is never anything but critical of the regime throughout this movie. Although this criticism may have been warrented, I can't help but noticed a bit of hipocracy in the way he does it- During the opening scene, we see a lecture that shows how the "enemy" dehumanizes it's opponents, comparing them to mildew that must be eradicated. Yet Gavras commits the same sin and never humanizes his own opponents- You'd be hard pressed to find a single positive attribute in any of the government officials. They are universally depicted as being driven by selfish, hateful reasons, with no redeeming qualities. Sure, we do see a single policeman that tries to arrest Yago, but as Peter Cowie says in the commentary, this officer is deliberately shown as young as evidence that he hasn't been corrupted by the regime yet. This character also struck me as more of a token inclusion to show how Gavras doesn't think all military/policemen are bad (and when has anyone ever used the sentence "I don't think all ______ are bad" in a way that wasn't offensive?) Additionally, I'd argue that the names of the two thugs, Yago and Vago, serve to make them seem like faceless appendages rather than individuals who may have differing motivations for siding with the regime. Although Gavras never openly states it in the film, it is clear that he believes the regime is also a mildew, and eradication is the only option left.

Gavras also oxymoronically depicts the junta as being both a formidable threat yet utterly incompetent- (two traits I often see modern right-wingers often throw at radical Islam, who never question how such a "backwards" civilization can pose such an immense threat to our entire way of life). The assassination is almost farcical in how clumsily it is executed, and the cover-up is very amatuerish. The junta even fess up to their poor governnance directly at one point, when the general says that no ballerina would ever defect to them since they would rather go to a more successful country. Even Yago and Vago admit that they are making the world they live in a worse place. Again, this is meant to build our anger at the regime, showing that even they supposedly admit they are sending their country to hell in a handbasket, while simulatenously depicting them as being parasitic, thriving on the chaos they have fomented.

Gavras opens his film by pressing the audience into the sweaty faces of military officials before shoving us into the tight and claustrophibic corridors that the opposition seems to exist in. Indeed, the opposition (and the audience) are never really given room to breath in this film until the final moments, when we visit the widow at her waterfront home. This style may be meant to give us a sense of just how boxed in the opposition is, but I also got whiffs of Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing" in that the claustrophobia is meant to make the audiance uncomfortable and irritable, although while Lee seemingly uses it to examine where rage comes from, Gavras wants to focus this anger at the dehumanized regime (all while accusing the regime of doing the same thing).

Gavras also employs violence in a variety of ways during this film- he shows the opposition as being completely opposed to violence, while the regime thugs absolutely revel in it. Look at the smiles on their faces when they first beat up the meeting attendees- I saw a hint of the Joker in the way Yago stoodback and gleefully kicked downed opponents whenever the opportunity arose. Yet Gavras also acknowledges the draw of violence, and uses it to craft two of the most exciting scenes in the movie- the fist-fight on the back of the truck, and the man getting chased through town by the sedan. Gavras also uses the film to show that working within the system and playing by the rules simply doesn't work for the opposition, with the final scene of the reportor showing how the oppositions efforts was all for not. Given the fact that the purpose of this movie seems to be to build up rage, my take on this repeated objection to violence is just a cinematic version of a man rolling up his sleeves while saying "I had hoped it wouldn't come to this...", an attitude that led to the left-wing terror throughout the world during the 70's.

One final part of the film that stuck out for me was the appearance of Z's widow. When we first hear about this arrival, the general makes a comment that the opposition will parade her around to build sympathy. However, after she is introduced, Gavras doesn't really do anything with her other than have her stand around and look sad. She doesn't have any meaningful impact on the course of the plot, she just serves as a reminder that this tragedy is not only a political one, but a personal one. It's a bit ironic that Gavras wended up exploiting her character just as much as the general predicted.

The most damning thing about the politics of this movie, however, is how completely devoid of issues this film is. It really is nothing more than a smear campaign against the government, criticizing them for being criminals and thugs rather than fighting them through broader ideological or policy reasons. Of course we should be against people who employ underhanded tactics! But aside from a few snippets that show Z wants to increase the pay of teachers and stay non-aligned, we never really see anything about the oppositions policies beyond "The old regime is terrible but we would be much better"- and how many times throughout history have revolutionaries said that?

Now, I'll readily admit that I am focusing way more on the politics of this film rather than its cinematic aesthetics, but since Gavras' intention is to blend cinema with politics, I don't think this focus is unwarranted. I also want to clarify that I am making no judgements on the actions of the regime at the time. I'm sure they were terrible, but I saw a lot of similarities between Gavras' accusations and his methods. I don't see much difference between Gavras and, say, Rush Limbaugh, in that both put their own version of facts on display, deny their opponents of any accomplishments, and try to build up anger in their audience. Because of this, I think this film pales in comparison to something like The Battle of Algiers, which made an honest effort to examine the issues at hand. I guess there is some sense of accomplishment in the fact that Gavras helped bring to cinema some of the same techniques that modern media pundits are still using today, but I don't see that legacy as a particularly proud one.

Also, the music in the film is fantastic!

User avatar
dustybooks
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: 491 Z

#58 Post by dustybooks » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:52 am

Do we know how long Criterion's DVD of this has been out of print? Has there been any speculation of an upgrade? I can't find anything, but then again, it's not the easiest film to search for!

User avatar
Wigs by Leonard
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:52 pm

Re: 491 Z

#59 Post by Wigs by Leonard » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:15 pm

dustybooks wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:52 am
Do we know how long Criterion's DVD of this has been out of print? Has there been any speculation of an upgrade? I can't find anything, but then again, it's not the easiest film to search for!
According to this thread it went OOP approximately in August 2018. And per the Forthcoming thread, it's speculated for an upgrade. Received a director-approved restoration in 2016. Restored DCP screened at least once earlier this year, but it's not currently listed on the Janus site.

User avatar
dustybooks
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: 491 Z

#60 Post by dustybooks » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:05 pm

Thank you so much!

Post Reply