The Departed (Martin Scorsese, 2006)

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exte
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm
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#126 Post by exte » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:20 pm

Joe Buck wrote:I freaking loved this film. Really knocked me out. I did not see the original, so I didn't see any of the twists and turns coming. Really shook me up. I'm still reeling from it all. Incredible piece of work. When you spend the whole year watching movies you think are good and then see a true master in action, you realize there is no comparison. This is movie making at its finest.
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

The whole country hasn't seen Infernal Affairs. Those that have don't even make up one percent, I would venture. I haven't even seen it, and I'm the foreign language film king - most of what I watch is not in English. Anyway, I put off watching the original until I could see Scorsese's version.

Hoberman does a good job of putting the Hong Kong/Scorsese relationship into perspective, I think. And, quite particularly, I don't give a rat's ass that it was a remake, as I know most people here have cringed at the idea.

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kieslowski_67
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#127 Post by kieslowski_67 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:27 pm

Scorsese did it again. He turned a top notch thriller into a deep personal film that featured a fantastic character study on Leo's character (again!). I cannot believe that he could have turned Leo into a perfect character actor whose expertise is to play tortured souls.

Leo is fantastic. Jack is at his game. Matt Damon is doing better than what his talent gives him. Masterful DP and editing. By far the best film of the year and I did not expect anyone to top Jia's "still life" just last week.

Roger_Thornhill
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#128 Post by Roger_Thornhill » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:58 pm

I'll glady misquote you, Roger_Thornhill because these, ultimately are my exact feelings. Scorcese's 'gangster' films often show a quite fantastic sense of black humour (!) but what you call the playfulness of The Departed, I call the silliness. So much of the humour is more in line with Tarantino and his imitators not with the black humour of say a Taxi Driver or a Casino.
There is a sense of humor of course to both Goodfellas and Casino, but I feel that both films were grounded in a sense of reality that is only superficially present in The Departed, perhaps because the earlier films were based on true stories. Goodfellas takes the POV of Henry Hill and consequently we see both the upside and later the downside of being a gangster. You're right Andre, Goodfellas is playful to some extent, but behind it is the harsh reality of living a life of crime and murder. In the beginning we see Pesci sadistically stab a man to death in the back of car and we hear Henry say in VO, "All my life I've wanted to be a gangster." The irony of course is the enthusiatic narration juxtaposed against the (I believe) freeze-framed image of Henry looking exhausted and scared. Scorsese is obviously asking, why would anyone want to be a gangster if you have to witness and participate in such inhumane acts? Scorsese's representation of the gangster's life is honest in that it shows the "glorious times" and the paranoid, frightening, and confusing times. No one would want to be a gangster if it was a life of complete and utter misery, but clearly Scorsese argues that the brutal reality of being a gangster is not worth the occasional joys or highs in the end. Furthermore, much of the humor in the first half comes from Joe Pesci's character, but as the film progresses it becomes quite clear that he's a complete and utter sociopath. Throughout The Departed that sense of humor and, for lack of a better word, playfullness (or silliness as Don Lope said) remains. The audience I saw it with loved Jack on the screen the entire time whether he's making rat faces, brandishing a black dildo in a porno theater, or coming up with witty one-liners that left people in stitches (it almost made me wonder at times if it was Jack in control or Scorsese). Goodfellas and Casino do not have that, especially the latter film where from the start Pesci is portrayed as a monster (the stabbing-the-neck-with-a-pen scene). Where Jack's character in The Departed is cartoonishly exagerrated, Pesci's in Goodfellas is simply over-the-top, but not a caricature like Jack is. Casino is a much darker film in tone than Goodfellas and especially The Departed. The violence in Casino so startled me (especially Pesci's death scene) that I had to look away, it was so savage that it made me sick. And as Don Lope pointed out, Casino and Goodfellas lack the clever one-liners of Jack and Alec Baldwin's characters that make The Departed feel more like a scripted Hollywood movie than the realism of Goodfellas and Casino. So while I'll agree there is a certain cinematic playfulness to Goodfellas and possibly Casino, I think those two films are vastly different in tone than The Departed. I hope that made sense because I think I was sort of rambling on. My apologies if it doesn't.

EDIT: Oh, thanks Andre (and others) for pointing out where "Gimme Shelter" was used in Goodfellas and Casino, I knew I heard it in one of his earlier films. I really have no problem using "Gimme Shelter" repeatedly, it's just that I remember Scorsese using pop music in more dynamic ways than, in my view, the pedestrian manner in The Departed. Can you imagine Scorsese using any other song than "Layla" in, as someone earlier called it, the-everyone-getting-whacked montage? I can't, it fits perfectly. I can easily see him using another song in the opening of The Departed and esecially in those sequences where the heavy-metal-Irish-folk song is used.

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kieslowski_67
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#129 Post by kieslowski_67 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:10 pm

exte wrote:This is Scorsese's best picture since Goodfellas. This is the picture that finally proves the fruits of his collaboration with DiCaprio.
Absolutely agree. He is turning DiCaprio into a truly remarkable character actor in our eyes.
exte wrote:This film will win the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay. Alec Baldwin will also win for Best Supporting Actor.
Alec Baldwin???
exte wrote:And if the Academy has any dignity left, it will award the Best Director Oscar to Martin Scorsese.
If the AMPAS has any dignity, at least I have never heard of that. Please name one, or two true auteurs that have won best director Oscars in the past. Maybe Billy Wilder, or John Ford belong to that club, but I am not sure that most of the cinephines buy that.

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#130 Post by David Ehrenstein » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:09 pm

It's a very good film, but it's not Casino

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Simon
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#131 Post by Simon » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:18 pm

kieslowski_67 wrote:If the AMPAS has any dignity, at least I have never heard of that. Please name one, or two true auteurs that have won best director Oscars in the past. Maybe Billy Wilder, or John Ford belong to that club, but I am not sure that most of the cinephines buy that.
Like everyone here, I spit on AMPAS, but if you can't consider directors like Ford working under the old studio system as auteurs, that leaves very little possiblities pre 50s. Welles maybe? I'll toss a few names as well, just for fun: Polanski, Bertolucci, Allen. And I skipped debatable ones like Eastwood, Coppola, Soderbergh, Stone ...

I loved The Departed by the way, I think it's Marty's best work since Goodfellas and I might like it better actually, although I need another viewing. I liked the gritter style, closer to Scorsese 70s movies instead of his overly slick stuff from the 90s. I was really impressed by Leo, Marty really turned his career around.

TedW
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#132 Post by TedW » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:27 pm

Whew. Now that his commerical period has reached its peak (the only place to go from here is a comic-book franchise), and presumably a suitable pension tucked away, can he get back to movies that have some actual weight? Something that seems like it happens right here on the planet Earth that I recognize? You know, like he used to make? I sure would like another one or two before he retires.

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kieslowski_67
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#133 Post by kieslowski_67 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:28 pm

Simon wrote:Welles maybe? I'll toss a few names as well, just for fun: Polanski, Bertolucci, Allen. And I skipped debatable ones like Eastwood, Coppola, Soderbergh, Stone ...
The only Ford movies that I really admire are "stagecoach" and "searchers". "How green was my valley", "informer" were, well, :P Welles never won an Oscar. Wilder is ok, at least he has "double indemnity" and "sunset blvd" under his belt. Polanski and Bertolucci won Oscars for lesser stellar works in their respective reportoire to say the least.

Eastwood? :oops: Stone? :evil: Soderbergh? Not there yet.
Simon wrote:I loved The Departed by the way, I think it's Marty's best work since Goodfellas and I might like it better actually, although I need another viewing. I liked the gritter style, closer to Scorsese 70s movies instead of his overly slick stuff from the 90s. I was really impressed by Leo, Marty really turned his career around.
I did not understand the pairing of Scorsese and Leo 5 years ago. Now I cannot see a better, more worthy young actor to star in a Scorsese film. :)

Personally I feel that "departed" might be Scorsese's second best work after "raging bull". It's slightly better than his other masterworks, "age of innocence", "taxi driver", and "goodfellas".

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souvenir
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#134 Post by souvenir » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:24 pm

Re: The Departed and pop music - I thought the use of "Comfortably Numb" was perfect and memorable, more so than "Gimme Shelter" in this particular film

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flyonthewall2983
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#135 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:43 pm

Is there a Robert Plant song in the movie, specifically from his 2002 album Dreamland? If so, I think he might have performed it when I saw him open for The Who back in '02.

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Simon
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#136 Post by Simon » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:54 pm

kieslowski_67 wrote:Welles never won an Oscar.
My Welles comment was poorly worded, I meant he might be one of the early auteur that was slighted. As for the others, well what is your definition of an auteur? Because I hate Oliver Stone movies doesn't make him less of an auteur, at least if you follow the Cahiers du Cinema definition. And Cahiers has been praising Eastwood, naming Unforgiven as one the best movies of the 90s.

How about the Third Man 'homage' in the funeral scene? All I knowis that if some other directors did a scene like that, they would be called cut and paste directors or rip off artists :)

Roger_Thornhill
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#137 Post by Roger_Thornhill » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:04 pm

souvenir wrote:Re: The Departed and pop music - I thought the use of "Comfortably Numb" was perfect and memorable, more so than "Gimme Shelter" in this particular film
Yeah that worked nicely, anyone know which version of "Comfortably Numb" it was? It sounded like Gilmour was singing it instead of Waters.

I looked it up on IMDB and it's neither Gilmour nor Waters but Van Morrison and The Band.
Simon wrote:How about the Third Man 'homage' in the funeral scene? All I knowis that if some other directors did a scene like that, they would be called cut and paste directors or rip off artists :)
I remember Soderbergh had a much more obvious homage to it in Ocean's Twelve, complete with zither music I believe.

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jorencain
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#138 Post by jorencain » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:55 pm

Roger_Thornhill wrote:I looked it up on IMDB and it's neither Gilmour nor Waters but Van Morrison and The Band.
I believe it's the version from Roger Waters' "The Wall Live in Berlin". It's too bad I hate that version of the song (which also made me hate Van Morrison). My anger over Scorsese not using the original Pink Floyd version briefly took me out of the movie, which I otherwise loved.

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tavernier
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#139 Post by tavernier » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:00 pm

It was obviously cheaper to get the non-Floyd version; or maybe Gilmour balked at its use.

I'm glad it wasn't the original version, which will now never be ruined by images of Vera and Leo screwing.

Greathinker

#140 Post by Greathinker » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:09 am

TedW wrote:Whew. Now that his commerical period has reached its peak (the only place to go from here is a comic-book franchise), and presumably a suitable pension tucked away, can he get back to movies that have some actual weight? Something that seems like it happens right here on the planet Earth that I recognize? You know, like he used to make? I sure would like another one or two before he retires.
Right. I thought this movie played out more like a graphic novel adaptation than anything, with no sign of the social realism present in Taxi Driver. It seems as if Scorsese wasn't yet done with the over-the-top characterizations he used in Gangs of New York that he had to use them inappropriately here. Does anyone feel that this was intended or had purpose? Or, I hope not, is he just letting his overinfatuation get the best of him? What's ironic is that I read this quote of his in an article the other day:

"I don't see any connection between the themes and the characters I'm doing now and the films they want to make in Hollywood."

Yeah right. It's exactly what they want to see. What's funny is that this film might get him the Oscar, which would cement just how hollow those awards are. But at least he may stop making these hollywood fare films if he gets it.

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Joe Buck
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#141 Post by Joe Buck » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:46 pm

There were a couple of points that I felt the music was out of place and jarring. Perhaps that was the intention. Like, I love the Beach Boys, but "Sail on Sailor" didn't particularly fit. It's like he was just using the song for the sake of using it. I'm not one to complain, though, and it's good that the Beach Boys more obscure rock oriented 70's catalog got some exposure. Lennon's "Well Well Well" also seemed to take me out of that particular scene. More of a distraction than an enhancement. Just me, maybe.

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Faux Hulot
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#142 Post by Faux Hulot » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:51 pm

Enjoyable pulp, but it's no Goodfellas (and that final shot is unforgiveable). On balance I'd rather see this.

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#143 Post by Antoine Doinel » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:54 pm

Hong Kong Director Praises, Criticizes Scorsese's Adaptation

Andrew Lau, the Hong Kong director whose Infernal Affairs served as the basis for The Departed, has given Martin Scorsese a thumbs-up for the adaptation, according it an eight on a scale of ten. "Of course I think the version I made is better, but the Hollywood version is pretty good too," Lau said in a telephone interview with the Hong Kong English-language tabloid, the Apple Daily. "I have to admit that Martin Scorsese is very smart. He made the Hollywood version more attuned to American culture," he added. The Departed closely follows the plot of Infernal Affairs, which won a best actor award for Tony Leung Chiu-Wai in 2003, although it moves the setting from Hong Kong to Boston. Lau also criticized the amount of profanity in the Scorsese film.

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Don Lope de Aguirre
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#144 Post by Don Lope de Aguirre » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:06 pm

Enjoyable pulp, but it's no Goodfellas (and that final shot is unforgiveable). On balance I'd rather see this.
Faux Hulot to quote Edward G Robinson:

You spoke a mouthful!

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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#145 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:13 pm

IMDb Studio Briefing wrote:Hong Kong Director Praises, Criticizes Scorsese's Adaptation

Andrew Lau, the Hong Kong director whose Infernal Affairs served as the basis for The Departed, has given Martin Scorsese a thumbs-up for the adaptation, according it an eight on a scale of ten. "Of course I think the version I made is better, but the Hollywood version is pretty good too," Lau said in a telephone interview with the Hong Kong English-language tabloid, the Apple Daily. "I have to admit that Martin Scorsese is very smart. He made the Hollywood version more attuned to American culture," he added. The Departed closely follows the plot of Infernal Affairs, which won a best actor award for Tony Leung Chiu-Wai in 2003, although it moves the setting from Hong Kong to Boston. Lau also criticized the amount of profanity in the Scorsese film.
Surprise, the IMDb doesn't know the difference between Andrew Lau and Andy Lau. And isn't the Apple Daily a Chinese-language paper?

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#146 Post by Cinesimilitude » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:38 am

just got back from this, and I hadn't seen the original before hand. Leo is great. Wahlberg is amazing, but not given enough screen time, and Jack brings his usual class, but the rest of the cast just didn't cut it for me. And I wanted it to end so differently. There were quite a few loose ends, and It just overall wasn't very satisfying. I thik at one point i noticed it change from 24 to 30 fps for a few shots, which took me right out of the film. The music was also jarring at a few scenes, not to mention poorly edited.

If this gets Scorsese his oscar, then I'm glad, but it was quite forgettable for me.

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Andre Jurieu
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#147 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:04 am

SncDthMnky wrote:The music was also jarring at a few scenes, not to mention poorly edited.
Could you elaborate on that a bit? I thought the abrupt stalls in the music were quite deliberate on Scorsese's part. As was mentioned above, it appears that with The Departed, Scorsese seems to be quite playful and almost mischievous in his filmmaking technique by constantly drawing attention to the aggressive tactics that he's been criticized for in the past.

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justeleblanc
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#148 Post by justeleblanc » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:29 pm

The poor editing of the music was a Godard moment. I'm not sure I buy his calling attention to that for which he's been criticized.

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#149 Post by Cinesimilitude » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:08 pm

thinking back on it, the print I saw might have been more jarring than what you all saw... there were constant skippings of words, and at one point the audio was changing channels like mad in a simple dialogue scene. It might have been a faulty audio track on the print, so I think what I'm going to do is reserve judgement and discussion on this until I can see the dvd, which will surely be exactly what Scorsese intended.

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#150 Post by Cosmic Bus » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:12 pm

SncDthMnky wrote:there were constant skippings of words, and at one point the audio was changing channels like mad in a simple dialogue scene.
I experienced this as well, but assumed our awful local theater was to blame.

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