Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

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CriterionPhreak
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#26 Post by CriterionPhreak » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:19 am

Regarding DVDBeaver's captures of Blackmail, if you measure the width and height of the image in the supposedly 1.20:1 version, you'll notice the aspect ratio is actually 1.10:1! Either DVDBeaver made an error in the captures, or Kino squeezed the image. The 1.33:1 version does have the 1.33:1 dimension, but it is horizontally stretched and not ideal for viewing.

I bought the Vudu streaming version (sound version) that also uses the Studio Canal print, and it is shown in the correct 1.20:1 ratio.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#27 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:49 am

So somehow even when offering two different aspect ratios, neither is the correct one? I haven’t watched my copy yet, but literal LOLs if true

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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#28 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:56 am

Yes, LOLs and WFBs (wait for BFI)

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knives
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#29 Post by knives » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Are you allowed to have an acronym in an acronym?

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#30 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 pm

M

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#31 Post by dwk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:18 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:56 am
Yes, LOLs and WFBs (wait for BFI)
Wouldn't it be WFSC as StudioCanal has the rights to the film (I think.) And, given their history, they likely will likely find some way to make it worse.

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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#32 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:28 pm

I assumed BFI because their name's been thrown around a lot with regard to early Hitchcock restorations but I have no idea beyond that

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kcota17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#33 Post by kcota17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:30 pm

I have the disc and yes it is completely jarring when watching it and looks very unnaturally scrunched in. The 1.33:1 looks better framing-wise when watching but is a worse transfer than the “1.20:1” so it’s a mess.

The silent version looks beautiful though.

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agnamaracs
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#34 Post by agnamaracs » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm

To make an unscientific comparison, I took the sound and 1.20 silent versions of Beaver's first screenshot (the one with handwriting), cropped them to specific points, and switched back and forth between the two.

They are definitely not the same ratio.

The question is whether these transfers are Kino originals, or if they're using the same ones the RB release will eventually use.

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Roscoe
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#35 Post by Roscoe » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm

So Kino will, as in the past, say there's no problem with the transfer until they release a Hitchcock Box Set that will address the problem with the transfer, and not offer an exchange for those of us who bought the problem discs.

I feel like we've been here before with Kino.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#36 Post by Glowingwabbit » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:52 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm
So Kino will, as in the past, deny everything until they release a Hitchcock Box Set that will include properly framed discs, and not offer an exchange for those of us who bought the incorrectly framed discs.

I feel like we've been here before with Kino.
Most definitely! haha. I'm surprised Kino Insider hasn't jumped in already to defend it. Although I'm still going to pick this up as the silent version is the best version anyway

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MichaelB
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Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#37 Post by MichaelB » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:57 pm

swo17 wrote:I assumed BFI because their name's been thrown around a lot with regard to early Hitchcock restorations but I have no idea beyond that
The BFI restored the Hitchcock silents a decade ago as an obviously important cultural project, but they don’t own the rights so can’t do anything with them commercially.

(If they did own them, they’d certainly have come out years ago!)

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#38 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:15 pm

kcota17 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:30 pm
I have the disc and yes it is completely jarring when watching it and looks very unnaturally scrunched in. The 1.33:1 looks better framing-wise when watching but is a worse transfer than the “1.20:1” so it’s a mess.

The silent version looks beautiful though.
The sound 1.33:1 version and the "1.20:1" are identical transfers, other than the change in geometry.

But yes, if this is not Beaver's mess up then Kino presumably have indeed taken a 1.19:1 master and offered it in two versions: stretch-o-vision and squish-o-vision.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#39 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 pm

Since I don’t have a Blu-Ray drive, I just took a tape measure to my TV (in one of the more ridiculous moments of my life). There is a bit of overscan on my TV, but I used the police letter writing frame (and could still see rough/rounded frame edge) and had 1.18 on the “1.20” version... so I think DVDBeaver’s caps might be to blame on this one

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denti alligator
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#40 Post by denti alligator » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:58 pm

Is BFI going to release the new restorations? If so, I'll wait for them.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#41 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Scroll up four posts

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denti alligator
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#42 Post by denti alligator » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:01 pm

Oh bummer. So who owns the rights in the UK?

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#43 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:03 pm

StudioCanal. I can see them releasing a Hitchcock box like they did for their UK Godard, Bunuel, and Melville holdings, but who knows

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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#44 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:38 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 pm
Since I don’t have a Blu-Ray drive, I just took a tape measure to my TV (in one of the more ridiculous moments of my life). There is a bit of overscan on my TV, but I used the police letter writing frame (and could still see rough/rounded frame edge) and had 1.18 on the “1.20” version... so I think DVDBeaver’s caps might be to blame on this one
To the extent you have overscan your measurements are biased high, taking it further away from 1.20:1

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#45 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:46 pm

Are you suggesting there was somehow a flaw in my idea to just hold a tape measure up to my screen

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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#46 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:47 pm

The only way I can tell for sure is if you post video of yourself doing it again


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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#48 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Immeasurably

CriterionPhreak
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Blackmail, Murder!, and the Early Films of Alfred Hitchcock

#49 Post by CriterionPhreak » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:50 am

It's not likely that DVDBeaver made a mistake, because his captures are in 1920x1080 resolution, which is what you expect. But the actual image area is closer to 1.10:1 than 1.20:1. This can be easily done with the Windows Paint program as shown below. I selected the image area (enclosed by the dotted line) and its dimension came out to be 1205x1071, which is about 1.12:1 ratio. (1205 divided by 1071 = 1.1251.)

Image

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