Prince (1958-2016)

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ando
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#201 Post by ando » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:52 pm

hearthesilence wrote:He had the potential to make groundbreaking dance-pop on the same level as Michael Jackson's Off the Wall, but unfortunately FutureSex/LoveSounds turned out to be a peak rather than a harbinger.
Never saw that kind of vision in him. He does enough to stay on the radar but he's hardly transformative.

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Timberlake explaining away his Superbowl performance on Jimmy Fallon's show. Prince could be corny, too, but damn...


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ando
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#203 Post by ando » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:02 pm

Been enjoying the Blast From The Past series; most are 4 disc sets of outakes, extended versions of previously released/album versions and anomalies. 4.0 & 5.0 are standouts.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#204 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:30 am

Old news now, but that album will be an informal solo piano & vocal recording from 1983. Unfortunately this recording has been circulating since the '90s, so nothing really new. At least it's in better quality (though it sounds like it's sourced from a cassette, which may be how it was recorded).

Forgot to mention this in my Showgirls post, but I was impressed that not only did it have a good Bowie track ("I'm Afraid of Americans," apparently as a rough mix of a recording from the Earthling sessions - the song would become an official Bowie release two years later), it also had TWO Prince tracks, the best of which was "3121" which appeared on The Gold Experience. I'm not alone in thinking it's a great album, but unfortunately its release was marred by his struggles with Warner Bros. and it fell out-of-print for decades. It was eventually put out on Tidal's streaming service but now Sony has agreed to re-issue it this year as part of a distribution deal that includes 19 previously released album titles originally released between 1995 and 2010.

Other titles to be reissued this year: the excellent Emancipation, the mediocre Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (keepers: "Prettyman," "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold," "Baby Knows"), the awful The Rainbow Children (keepers: "The Work," "She Loves Me 4 Me") and the excellent 3121, as well as titles originally distributed by Sony including the very good Musicology and somewhat lackluster Planet Earth (keepers: "Chelsea Rodgers," "Guitar," "The One U Wanna C"). Additional album titles from the 2014-2015 era will also be distributed with worldwide rights under the deal in the future.

Starting in 2021, Sony/Legacy’s distribution rights will be expanded to include 12 classic Warner-era non-soundtrack albums including masterpieces like Dirty Mind, 1999 and Sign 'O' the Times but it will not include Purple Rain, Batman, Parade and Graffiti Bridge as they are subject to different terms. (Also missing are a few titles like The Black Album.) The agreement also includes rights to “other previously released material recorded post-1995 including singles, b-sides, remixes, non-album tracks, live recordings and music videos.”

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#205 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:02 pm

hearthesilence wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:30 am
...Forgot to mention this in my Showgirls post, but I was impressed that not only did it have a good Bowie track ("I'm Afraid of Americans," apparently as a rough mix of a recording from the Earthling sessions - the song would become an official Bowie release two years later)...
The pedantic in me feels the need to comment that "I'm Afraid of Americans" was originally written and recorded for Bowie's 1995 album Outside, so the "rough mix" you're referring to probably came from the sessions for this album, not the later Earthling.

Thanks for the Prince news!

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#206 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 pm

YES, you are right, they used a recording from the Outside sessions, and I actually typed that but I must have made a cut-and-paste mistake when I re-edited that line for clarity. Honestly, how many films prominently feature a good Bowie AND Prince track, and not in a superfluous way?
Last edited by hearthesilence on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#207 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 pm

Ugh. Have to wait at least three years to get a remastered Sign O’ the Times.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#208 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:20 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 pm
Ugh. Have to wait at least three years to get a remastered Sign O’ the Times.
Didn't they reissue it on vinyl recently? I thought those recent Rhino/WB vinyl releases were supposed to sound great. I haven't heard them myself, but I know Purple Rain was done on high quality vinyl from the original masters and by a really good cutting engineer.

Anyway, I wouldn't wait for a remastered digital release - chances are, they're going to compress the hell out of it. I'm hoping I'm wrong but just look at that deluxe 3-disc reissue of Purple Rain - a great package, but the mastering is terrible.
Last edited by hearthesilence on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#209 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:31 pm

Just checked, it was indeed reissued AND remastered, back in 2016 and it's still available everywhere.

The mastering/cutting engineeer is Kevin Gray, who does a lot of audiophile reissues for Analogue Productions and other specialty labels - he's good, so if vinyl is your format of choice, pick this up. I doubt you can do any better.

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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#210 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:01 pm

Thanks for info. But not a vinyl collector. I'll have to wait for the CD if it ever comes.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#211 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:52 am


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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#212 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:54 pm

For some strange reason SiriusXM plays only the single edit of "When Doves Cry". If I ever heard it on the radio it was usually the whole song. Certainly the case for the video.

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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#213 Post by mteller » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:02 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:54 pm
For some strange reason SiriusXM plays only the single edit of "When Doves Cry". If I ever heard it on the radio it was usually the whole song. Certainly the case for the video.
I bet they're sourcing it from The Hits 1

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tarpilot
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#214 Post by tarpilot » Thu May 09, 2019 4:15 am

ando wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:10 pm
Spotify does have all 3 of the Prince backed The Time albums:

Image
Amusingly I've come across two separate interviews recently by veteran drummers who said they'd tried for a very long time to nail "777-9311" till they realized it was a drum machine (surely not the only ones!)

Jon Wurster
wrote:CP: What’s another of your favorite songs from Minneapolis?

JW: “777- 9311” by the Time. I haven’t heard the song in forever and I bought the single when I was a junior in high school or something. The drumming on it is really weird. I think that’s what caught my ear. What’s going on with the high hat is especially crazy. I went to the Wiki page tonight and I learned so much about this song. Basically Prince plays on the entire thing, and Morris Day sings. But this crazy drum thing is a pre-programmed preset that came with the drum machine. It’s not even a person. I spent at least a month trying to learn it and could never learn it and I felt terrible. Then I learned tonight it wasn’t even a human playing it, so I shouldn’t feel that bad.
?uestlove (I know I've seen another one too where he expands a bit. Maybe an excerpt from his autobiography?)
wrote:16. “Now there’s this thing called the drum machine, you don’t need good rhythm to sound real mean.”

Prince’s greatest gift to hip-hop (and most post–civil rights R&B) was his peerless and boundless ability to program and mix drum machines. He used his guitar effects to get new sounds out of them. He often substituted sounds for others (high-pitched tambourine was hi-hat, snare rim shot were congas, lowered cowbells were tom-toms). Not to mention, the actual programming was done so precise you too thought it was done by a human (not even gonna speak on spending three months in 1982 tryna master “777-9311” to find out it was a machine).

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ando
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#215 Post by ando » Thu May 09, 2019 3:16 pm

tarpilot wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:15 am
ando wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:10 pm
Spotify does have all 3 of the Prince backed The Time albums:

Image
Amusingly I've come across two separate interviews recently by veteran drummers who said they'd tried for a very long time to nail "777-9311" till they realized it was a drum machine (surely not the only ones!)

Jon Wurster
wrote:CP: What’s another of your favorite songs from Minneapolis?

JW: “777- 9311” by the Time. I haven’t heard the song in forever and I bought the single when I was a junior in high school or something. The drumming on it is really weird. I think that’s what caught my ear. What’s going on with the high hat is especially crazy. I went to the Wiki page tonight and I learned so much about this song. Basically Prince plays on the entire thing, and Morris Day sings. But this crazy drum thing is a pre-programmed preset that came with the drum machine. It’s not even a person. I spent at least a month trying to learn it and could never learn it and I felt terrible. Then I learned tonight it wasn’t even a human playing it, so I shouldn’t feel that bad.
?uestlove (I know I've seen another one too where he expands a bit. Maybe an excerpt from his autobiography?)
wrote:16. “Now there’s this thing called the drum machine, you don’t need good rhythm to sound real mean.”

Prince’s greatest gift to hip-hop (and most post–civil rights R&B) was his peerless and boundless ability to program and mix drum machines. He used his guitar effects to get new sounds out of them. He often substituted sounds for others (high-pitched tambourine was hi-hat, snare rim shot were congas, lowered cowbells were tom-toms). Not to mention, the actual programming was done so precise you too thought it was done by a human (not even gonna speak on spending three months in 1982 tryna master “777-9311” to find out it was a machine).
Nice. Another live breakdown.

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ando
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#216 Post by ando » Thu May 09, 2019 8:49 pm

Chris McBride & his band nail it without the drum machine.

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tarpilot
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#217 Post by tarpilot » Thu May 09, 2019 8:56 pm

That was great, thanks! Not even disappointed it wasn't Chi McBride

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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#218 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:59 pm


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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#219 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:34 pm

Saw this too. It's not my ideal box set, but it'll do. Unfortunately, legal reasons may be why it falls short of what I hoped for:

1) Prince's original vision of a triple-LP (which would have been a two-hour double CD) isn't recreated - all of the individual tracks aren't even included. Same goes for Dream Factory. But supposedly it's a right issue as several key tracks from both were included on Prince's 1997 outtakes collection (also titled Crystal Ball) which meant Warner Bros. would have had to license them, so either they couldn't get permission or didn't want to pay the fee.

2) The film for Sign 'O' the Times is not included but again that's a right issue - Warner Bros. either didn't want to license it or pay the fee. At least it got a proper BD release elsewhere, and I guess the upshot is that it freed up space for the live DVD that was included.

Apparently the cover was an actual creation done years ago by original photographer Jeff Katz and not something mocked up for this box set. It still looks tacky to me, but I guess for historical reasons its usage has some value.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#220 Post by Rayon Vert » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:11 pm

26 discs?? What are those LPs, cds?

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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#221 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm

I believe the 26 are for the LPs.

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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#222 Post by Rayon Vert » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:24 pm

I was a very reluctant and slow convert to cd's from vinyl in the (late) 80s (1990 was really the year I stopped all vinyl purchases), but stocking space was one reason, and man do I still not regret it!

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#223 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:28 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm
I believe the 26 are for the LPs.
There was a misprint - they accidentally listed each side as a whole LP. Still, 13 LP's add up to a lot of plastic - the CD version has 8 CD's, and the two discs covering the album-as-released are at half capacity with a total run time of 80 minutes and 6 seconds. (Had they gone with the original Crystal Ball instead of Sign 'O' the Times, it would've been 14 LP's vs. 8 CD's.)

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whaleallright
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#224 Post by whaleallright » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:33 pm

It is kind of wild that this isn't going to include the film! That would seem to be the most essential part of the set to me (aside from a remastered version of the original double LP).

Once upon a time, Some Guy on the Internet put together "Homemade Deluxe Editons" of the Warners-era albums, sourced (inevitably) from CD, vinyl, and other bootlegs, and they are pretty magnificent. The Sign o' the Times edition included the following, for comparison's sake:
Disc 1: Sign O’ The Times

This is a rip of an original US vinyl issue of the Sign O’ The Times album. All declicking was performed manually. Each side was normalized before tracks were seperated so the presentation should mirror that of an actual LP.

Disc 2: B-Sides and Non-Album Tracks

Tracks 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10 and 11 are taken from T’s 12” Archive V2.0 compilation. Tracks 2 and 6 are taken from the official Crystal Ball compilation released in 1998. Track 9 is taken from the soundtrack to Bright Lights, Big City.

Disc 3: Dream Factory

This is the version of Dream Factory issued by Thunderball Records.

Disc 4: Camille

This version of the Camille album was assembled by myself from the following sources. Tracks 2, 3 and 7 are taken from the US CD issue of Sign O’ The Times. Track 8 is taken from the US CD issue of The Black Album. Tracks 4 and 5 are taken from T’s 12” Archive V2.0 compilation. Track 1 is taken from Work It 2.0 compilation. Track 6 is an edit of the version of Good Love that appears on the Bright Lights, Big City soundtrack and was made to reflect the length of the version that appears on the 1998 Crystal Ball compilation. All edits are based on assumed data about the official Camille album which remains unreleased in full and is not in wide circulation within the Prince fan community.

Disc 5: The Black Album

This is a rip of an official 1994 German vinyl release of The Black Album. All declicking was performed manually. Each side was normalized before tracks were seperated so the presentation should mirror that of an actual LP.

Disc 6: Outtakes

Tracks 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 13, 15, 17 and 18 are taken from the Work It 2.0 compilation. Tracks 5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 16 are taken from FBG’s Box O’ Chocolates compilation with kind permission granted from all parties associated. Tracks 1 and 2 are taken from the Crucial bootleg.

Disc 7: Additional Outtakes

Track 3 taken from T’s 1987 compilation. All other tracks taken from the Work It 2.0 compilation.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Prince (1958-2016)

#225 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:18 pm

whaleallright wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:33 pm
It is kind of wild that this isn't going to include the film! That would seem to be the most essential part of the set to me (aside from a remastered version of the original double LP).

Once upon a time, Some Guy on the Internet put together "Homemade Deluxe Editons" of the Warners-era albums, sourced (inevitably) from CD, vinyl, and other bootlegs, and they are pretty magnificent. The Sign o' the Times edition included the following, for comparison's sake:
Disc 1: Sign O’ The Times
Disc 2: B-Sides and Non-Album Tracks - Track 9 ("Good Love") is taken from the soundtrack to Bright Lights, Big City.
Disc 3: Dream Factory
Disc 4: Camille - Track 6 is an edit of the version of Good Love that appears on the Bright Lights, Big City soundtrack and was made to reflect the length of the version that appears on the 1998 Crystal Ball compilation. All edits are based on assumed data about the official Camille album which remains unreleased in full and is not in wide circulation within the Prince fan community.
Disc 5: The Black Album
*snip*
It's definitely a major omission - Prince made the film specifically to promote the album in lieu of a full-fledged tour. The label, the band, virtually everyone pleaded with him to tour behind the album in the U.S., but he declined specifically because he believed the film would suffice. A shame because the handful of shows he did perform in Europe were arguably among the best that he's ever done, and they may even be the best ever for those who can make that comparison. Still, getting the film in return isn't a bad trade-off for those of us who were born too late. It's just crazy that the unorthodox financing behind it meant the film was never entirely in Warner's hands - I forgot whom, but I think the American rights eventually fell into the possession of an industrial company outside of the music business.

That fan-made box set is impressive, as good as one could hope for without real access to Prince's vault. Notice that they fit the album on to one CD - though the total running time is over 80 minutes, there's enough silence spread out after most (but not all) of the tracks to squeeze it down by another 9 seconds minimum, but then it becomes a question of whether you're disrupting the pacing between songs.

"Good Love" is one of my favorite non-LP Prince tracks, and that soundtrack is the only place where it was released unedited. (It was edited and compressed to hell on the 1998 compilation. Personally I wouldn't have edited it for a re-creation of Camille.)

Also Disc 5 doesn't belong here. To be fair, one track ("Rock Hard in a Funky Place") originated from Camille and was later included in the original Crystal Ball - again I would have preferred that to have taken up the first two CD's of any box set - but I don't think that should justify having the rest of The Black Album included the set.

I doubt Warner Bros. will do this since they're about to lose the rights, but a multidisc box set for the next officially released album, Lovesexy, would be easy and pretty great too: you'd have The Black Album on one disc - this is where it really belongs - and the B-Sides and edits on another, one or two discs of outtakes, two discs dedicated to the most celebrated Prince bootleg ever (the "Small Club" after hours show from this tour) and the DVD would be that German broadcast of an entire show.

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