DC Comics on Film

[domino harvey]

Being defensive does not improve your arguments

[captveg]

You guys are the one making it about me.

Perhaps if you had said "Accounting aside, what about x y and z" the conversation would have moved in that direction. Instead, you needed to draw a contrast between how I behaved relative to everyone else.

[captveg]

In regards to a serialized film series outside of Disney oversight being a narrative or artistic success - so far DC is well below being one outside of having a beneficial IP. That much is pretty clear.

Wonder Woman is next batter up, and it needs a solid double critically. Jenkins has consistently spoken to the character's inherent qualities such as kindness and strength of will, and even if the film uses the origin story template, it'll be Jenkins' ability to connect audiences with her lead character that the film's success likely rests.

The biggest fault of Suicide Squad is giving the audience any substantive reason to buy into the characters bonding as "family". They generally cast the film well, but Ayer never gives the characters basic logical actions for us to witness any real bonding. When Deadshot decides to not kill Harley nothing has been presented to us at that point to convince us he'd jeopardize his daughter for Harley. When did she become more family than his literal daughter? There is no such scene.

This is THE primary mistake Wonder Woman can't make. Get people on board with this hero and it could start to build that bridge the series needs going into Justice League.

[matrixschmatrix]

I do want to cop to having at least participated in the part of this conversation that is about accounting, bringing that up was not a non sequiter on captveg's part. I guess the point I was trying to make is that, in the wake of Marvel's success, the majors all wanted to jump on the interconnected universe bandwagon- the Garfield Spider-man movies were going to do that, Universal is still I big it a whirl with monsters, and WB went in on DC. So far, none of those highly marketing driven attempts have been especially successful- and I'm happy for that, because they represents an even further development in the minimizing risk with familiar ip groove that movies have been in since the 80s. We are currently more or less still in a place where the top 20 is made up of two movies each from five mega franchises and a handful of kid's films, but I think if DC got really successful, we'd be much closer to it. I don't want that.

[dx23]

WB/DC is now in a position to keep doing what they are doing, which has been mediocre to horrible, and be a Transformers-type of franchise, that make money but aren't good films at all. Or they can try to right the ship and be like Disney/Marvel, which have a proven formula of using their IP and creating good to great films. I'm not saying all their movies are good, cause they have had some very mediocre ones (I'm looking at you Iron Man 2) but they have figured out a way to embrace the character's histories, bring great actors and directors to take the helm and have one person making sure everything falls into their long-term plan. Like I've said before, WB needs to embrace their properties and not be ashamed by them. They have done that throughout their history to results like Batman & Robin, Catwoman, an almost complete abandonment of the Looney Tunes, and a complete disconnection between their own properties. I've mentioned time and time again how well Marvel has used their ties to Disney, ABC, ESPN and other sister companies. Warner Bros has been a complete clusterfuck for decades but even more after the whole AOL/Time Warner merger.

I have some faith in Geoff Johns but not on WB, who are prone to change their minds on a whim. It's been mentioned that they have a "plan" Well, they have had many plans before and they have been derailed by underwhelming results, company shakeups and mediocre leadership. It's no surprise as to why they have been so inconsistent as a company overall.

In somewhat related news, how the hell did Suicide Squad win best makeup and hair designs at the Oscars? I've seen tons of cosplayers with better makeup and design that the Hot Topic look that the film had.

[captveg]

Definitely hoping DC heads more towards righting the ship the way you describe. No matter one's opinion on Snyder's now aborted outline for the series, it did at least come from a perspective of trying to be true to what he appreciates in the characters. What he values just isn't broad and centered enough in the idealistic versions of those characters. Justice League's job as a film is to basically end with all the characters at those ideal, centered place.

As for Squad's makeup win - I gotta think the tattoo work pushed it over the top. Body makeup is often a tiebreaker for voters.

[Luke M]

WB has at least 4 movies (5 if he's in "THE BATMAN") featuring the Joker in development, and 3 of them are with Jared Leto...

I’ve heard these are mostly rumors though. Can’t see even one Leto-led Joker getting made.

[Ribs]

Apparently Scorsese is only involved in some misguided attempt to get Leonardo DiCaprio to be in a WB movie

[flyonthewall2983]

Isn't he doing a Captain Planet movie?

[Ribs]

I don't believe he was ever supposed to be starring in it, as that would be literally the most insane thing to have ever happened.

[domino harvey]

Does anyone who's followed DiCaprio's career really believe he'd show up in any superhero movie, much less one directed by the Hangover guy?

[flyonthewall2983]

I don't believe he was ever supposed to be starring in it, as that would be literally the most insane thing to have ever happened.

*coughs*

[dx23]

Well, Leo is starting to look like his buddy Jack Nicholson in some photos, so playing the Joker would somewhat parallel their careers too.

[Never Cursed]

Gavin O' Connor of The Accountant to write and direct the sequel

[cantinflas]

JUSTICE LEAGUE - Official Heroes Trailer

[Luke M]

So, Rotten Tomatoes will announce their score of Justice League *after* reviews are released. It’s an interesting move forcing fans to read reviews instead of relying on the score even though in all likelihood it’s cause Warner expects a poor score.

[Big Ben]

From what I've been seeing on Twitter with critics first impressions it's probably going to be exactly what you can expect from this line of DC movies. That stuff involving Rotten Tomatoes should tell you all you need to know.

[cdnchris]

That's really "conspiracy theory" stuff and I doubt Warner is telling them to delay it (that's along the lines of the fanboys who say Marvel/DC pay off critics), especially since the reviews I've seen so far haven't been scathing if not heaping praise. They seem to be saving its "unveiling" for their new weekly program called See It/Skip It, I assume to get a shit-ton of views, and this is a good film to do it with. If they unveil it sooner I doubt they will get much.

[solaris72]

That's really "conspiracy theory" stuff and I doubt Warner is telling them to delay it (that's along the lines of the fanboys who say Marvel/DC pay off critics), especially since the reviews I've seen so far haven't been scathing if not heaping praise. They seem to be saving its "unveiling" for their new weekly program called See It/Skip It, I assume to get a shit-ton of views, and this is a good film to do it with. If they unveil it sooner I doubt they will get much.

Given that Warner owns a 30% stake in RT's parent company I wouldn't call it a "conspiracy theory" to think that past DCEU RT ratings might've played some role in this decision.

[cdnchris]

I still seriously doubt that, though. If they didn't want it to get out they would either embargo the reviews or not screen it for critics. It makes more sense that RT just wants the views for what I'm sure will be the debut of really stupid weekly show they want to launch.

[McCrutchy]

So, it looks like Justice League is, financially, a total bust, looking at $96 million for the weekend, which, according to Forbes, is "$70 million less than Batman v Superman, $37m less than Suicide Squad, $32m less than Man of Steel and $7m less than Wonder Woman". This is on a reported $250-$300 million budget (albeit affected by reshoots), and the film, which made about $185.5 million overseas, is looking at $281.5 million worldwide come Monday, when it was tracked to be at $325 million worldwide. Supposedly, the film needs at least $700-$750 million to break even for WB, and I don't know if it will get there.

I saw it yesterday morning, with a grand total of about five people in an IMAX DMR showing, and it was an utter failure for me, mostly because despite it's reported budget, you don't see nearly that amount of money on the screen. I was surprised that there is very little obvious international location work in a film that requires disparate heroes to band together and engage in fighting. Most of the film takes place inside sets, or via shoddy CGI backgrounds, and there is very little sense of an epic adventure, even though there is one sequence blatantly in Northern Europe (it's Iceland), this is in service of Batfleck recruiting Aqua(lung)man, and you basically see everything they do with the location in the trailers. As a non-comics fan, none of the new heroes interested me enough to go see a solo film, though I've just found out Nicole Kidman will be in Aqua(lung)man next year, so depending on how big her role is (I imagine she'll do most of the Acting in the film) I may go see it.

It is also painfully obvious which sequences were originally shot by Zack Snyder, and which were reshoots done by Joss Whedon. I saw a list of changes online, and was totally stunned by how many were obvious to me as I remembered the film. There are sequences where actors (mostly Affleck) look uncomfortable, and scenes where hairstyles change from shot to shot due to the reshoots. Finally, there is a painfully bemusing issue with a mustache on Henry Cavill, which had to be digitally removed for the reshoots, rendering Cavill's mouth like a video game character. I genuinely feel bad for the effects houses on this film, because I'm sure some of the issues are down to studio interference (and again, reshoots), but there is still no excuse for a top-tier tentpole film to look this bad. The production also made the perilous decision to have an all-CGI villain, and the end result is as underwhelming as the character is. The soundtrack by Danny Elfman was all over the place, too.

Truly, it is a mess of a franken-film, and that it is at all watchable is down to some surprisingly serviceable acting. Still, to me, this is proof that only a small contingent of fans appreciate what DC, WB and Zack Snyder did for three of the previous four "DCEU" films, and that most people got so burned by the horrorshow that was Batman v Superman that not even DCs answer to Marvel's Avengers could save the series.

[Luke M]

Saw Justice League today and it’s really as bad as everyone says it is. Pretty much agree with everything McCrutchy wrote above. God, the cgi mouth on Henry Cavill was incredibly distracting to the point where nothing else in a scene matters. The all CG villain was a terrible decision. Marvel is out there getting Cate Blanchett to play their villain and DC responds with a cartoon. I did like some of the supporting cast and there’s some potential there for fun standalone Flash or Cyborg movies.

[cdnchris]

Marvel is out there getting Cate Blanchett to play their villain and DC responds with a cartoon. I did like some of the supporting cast and there’s some potential there for fun standalone Flash or Cyborg movies.

It was pretty shitty for a number of reasons, but the endless cartoon look may have been the biggest reason. Hearing that Hinds was playing the villain seemed promising but it's just a voice performance sadly because, like you said, he's a cartoon. Even my kids commented the film looked like a video game.

Worst of all it was dull. It rushed through everything with one lazily written scene after another, never building up much, and it feels like they're just trying to get through the film as quickly as possible (which is a bit of a blessing, thank God the film is under 2 hours).

I come back to the last Guardians movie and think about how that film was essentially all CGI but there was a life to it, an actual world/universe. That CGI raccoon has more personality (and a surprisingly complex one at that) than all of the characters in this movie combined. And the villain was a planet and yet they didn't go the cartoon route with him.

[dx23]

Agree completely on the Justice League assessment. And Chris, it looks like a video game because the powers that be at WB saw how much the Injustice video game series sold and they wanted the DCCU to replicate that. That has been how most of the DC staff that I know told me firsthand during conventions. After the negative reaction for everything they had done pre-Wonder Woman, and the box office and critical success that WW got, they decided to change the course and be more like Marvel. Again, the main problem besides the bad CGI, miscasts (I'm looking at you Affleck and Ezra), and bad direction by Snyder, is the fact that they deviate so much from the rich source material. It pains me to see this as I'm as big or more of a DC Comics fan than Marvel. Wonder Woman was so great because Gadot did an amazing job, the direction was great and the source was use heavily on the story. I heavily suspect that DC is going to do a in-story reboot for their universes soon as Affleck seems kin on leaving the role and the other films are having issues getting off the ground.

Infinity War on the other hand seems very interesting, not only because of all the heroes appearing in the film(s) but because it's bringing closure to this 10 year story arc. The fanboy in me would love to see these films bring back the red-headed stepchild, Agents of SHIELD, back to the main story and be part of the movies, even if it is just a cameo. Ditto for the Defenders and Punisher.

[McCrutchy]

As someone who is no big fan of comics, if there must be more movies, then really all I am interested in is getting more Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman (I think they're colloquially known as the Trinity) movies, until DC can show me a solid standalone feature with somebody else. While I actually thought Watchmen was very good, I think WB were outright foolish to stick with Zack Snyder for three straight disappointing blockbuster films, when, in most situations, directors are lucky to even make one such film, let alone be allowed to compound their failures twice over.

I really wish all traces of these films not related to this "Trinity" would be wiped off the face of the planet, but the problem is that WB continued to show poor judgment by overlapping the production and release of Justice League with the production of Auqaman. In Justice League, Aquaman was fairly uninteresting, and basically existed to be shirtless, and to remain on land 90% of the time, so I'm not really enthused for a follow up film. While Nicole Kidman (!) being in it may convince me to see the film, I'm going to have to be impressed by the tone, visuals and the rest of the cast list before I decide to see it, and even then, I'm concerned about WB not making a proper effort to reset themselves if the Aquaman film does well, so that my desire to not add to its box office take may outweigh my desire to see it, regardless.

But honestly, right now, the only comic book movie I am excited for is Deadpool 2. I'm sure I'll end up seeing Avengers: Infinity Pool as well, because the Marvel movies aren't going away, and I did really enjoy Thor: Ragnarok (at least as much as Logan), as well as a few of the other bigger ones. But the Disney Marvel movies really are starting to run together now, and unfortunately, Black Panther is probably the best example of that--a film that looks incredibly generic, based on a hero that has only a cult following, and is probably being made now, only to shoehorn more diversity into the Marvel Universe right before Infinity Pool.

At least with Deadpool 2, the R-rating, comedy genre and larger budget could allow the film to go off in new, inventive directions. Add to that the fact that I found Ryan Reynolds' performance in the first film to be great, and you have a film that is exciting in its possibilities. The only thing that has me nervous is the "sequelitis" that is so common in films, and the issue with Tim Miller departing, and being replaced by David Leitch, but my hope is that with Reynolds and the holdover cast returning, Leitch won't be able to alter the successes of the first film in any damaging way.

But I do miss the days before all these comic book and fantasy films came out. I often wish we could return to the 80s when the box office used to be topped for weeks on end by films like Beverly Hills Cop, and there weren't nearly as many mediocre films being pushed out for a month and then tossed out onto video weeks later. I guess I just wish that studios would go back to taking more time on these projects, and allowing for success over greater periods of time, rather than forcing out a ton of family-friendly films to attract heavy opening weekend crowds at virtually all costs.