Twin Peaks

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swo17
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Re: Twin Peaks

#751 Post by swo17 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:59 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:LQ's primary complaint is that the way she carries herself, walks, emotes - is in no way resembling how an FBI agent would do any of those things. She's got a chewing gum walk and absurdly tight clothes, we've already had a gratuitous shot of her butt - I can't say I disagree that it's sort of a bizarre character considering that she was made up from whole cloth for this season, one that has a lot of inspired casting all over it - Laura Dern, Naomi Watts, etc. Why her?
I've seen lots of stuff describing her as Lynch's new "muse." They've collaborated together on music projects since the '90s.

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Foam
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Re: Twin Peaks

#752 Post by Foam » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:03 pm

I have to agree with LQ. For me this is one of those perennial uncomfortable questions with Lynch: when are we dealing with the straight-up, old school male gaze factory at its purest, and when are we dealing with something more interesting? Tammy--in conception and execution--for me seems thoroughly in the former category so far. And I think of myself as someone who has a pretty low bar for this sort of thing.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#753 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:04 pm

If it were the male gaze factory at its purest, why cast her as a buttoned up FBI agent?

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Foam
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Re: Twin Peaks

#754 Post by Foam » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:15 pm

So the male gaze can have something to assert itself upon in the FBI scenes as well!

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Twin Peaks

#755 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:15 pm

I'm guessing for no other reason than it would be the only way she shares the most screen time with Lynch.

cdobbs
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Re: Twin Peaks

#756 Post by cdobbs » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:36 pm

Albert ogling Tammy's ass was a low point of The Return thus far. That and some of the "tough dame" cracks directed at Diane and Janey-E represent rare instances this season where Lynch and Frost show their age in a negative way.
mfunk9786 wrote:I can't think of a character that more people have despised based on so little screen time than Tammy, by the way. Reading Twin Peaks group comments, etc every week means absolute nonstop bile. She's not lighting her scenes on fire, but she's not ruining them, either. ...right?
It probably wouldn't be Twin Peaks if there wasn't an ostensibly cool young character that the fans can't stand.

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R0lf
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Re: Twin Peaks

#757 Post by R0lf » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:47 pm

I won't have a chance to watch this until it hits blu ray but I thought from screen grabs that the Tammy character was Monica Belluci...

!!!

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All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks

#758 Post by All the Best People » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:00 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:LQ's primary complaint is that the way she carries herself, walks, emotes - is in no way resembling how an FBI agent would do any of those things. She's got a chewing gum walk and absurdly tight clothes, we've already had a gratuitous shot of her butt - I can't say I disagree that it's sort of a bizarre character considering that she was made up from whole cloth for this season, one that has a lot of inspired casting all over it - Laura Dern, Naomi Watts, etc. Why her?
I find her a hilarious pastiche of the "vamp" type just for the reasons you state. Also, every line she utters sounds like a come-on, no matter its content. She's a refugee from some forgotten 50s "bad girl" B-movie, randomly thrown into the FBI, where she's actually a competent agent.

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All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks

#759 Post by All the Best People » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:02 pm

cdobbs wrote:Albert ogling Tammy's ass was a low point of The Return thus far. That and some of the "tough dame" cracks directed at Diane and Janey-E represent rare instances this season where Lynch and Frost show their age in a negative way.
I don't think it's their age, it's just that Lynch forever has one foot in cultural representations from and of the 50s, and (for instance) "tough dame" is completely in line with that.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Twin Peaks

#760 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:33 am

All the Best People wrote:
cdobbs wrote:Albert ogling Tammy's ass was a low point of The Return thus far. That and some of the "tough dame" cracks directed at Diane and Janey-E represent rare instances this season where Lynch and Frost show their age in a negative way.
I don't think it's their age, it's just that Lynch forever has one foot in cultural representations from and of the 50s, and (for instance) "tough dame" is completely in line with that.
Also, in a recent interview Lynch didn't deny that Gordon Cole has a "dubious history with younger female agents" ("oh, you don't want to know" is his exact response when asked), so he's at least conscious of this dynamic whether he intends it to be negative or not.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#761 Post by denti alligator » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:01 am

Between episodes 8 and 9 I re-watched season 1. Coming on the heels of those early episodes, episode 9 fit perfectly in terms of tone and style. I loved it.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#762 Post by whaleallright » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:30 pm

The various references to "tough broad," etc. feel like ham-handed attempts to remind the audience that Lynch and Frost have created "empowered" female characters (who, in the case of Janey-E, also act like harridans much of the time). On that note, the repartee among Diane and the FBI agents—especially the running "fuck you, ___" joke—likewise strikes me as especially lame. (This whole Diane plot feels like the kind of fan service the show otherwise has admirably been confounding.)

In general, this series seems to be bundling together some of David Lynch's best and worst traits, as we might expect from an 18-hour (!) sort-of-film. There are scenes that are among the most visually inventive and haunting ever to appear on television; others that seem amateurish in their acting, staging, framing, and/or editing; and still others that are just puzzling. The scene with Betty Briggs in the most recent episode was staged and shot like a daytime soap, including the sudden appearance of heavy underscoring that seems to want to quickly nudge the audience toward some (unearned) emotional epiphany. As with the odd moment when Bobby Briggs sees the photo of Laura Palmer, it's hard to know if we're watching a knowing citation of soap conventions, or just Lynch relying, clumsily, on a kind of dramatic shorthand—though given how lame such scenes are, I'm not sure it matters.

Was I the only one who, in response to the exposition-heavy episode nine, stopped wondering or even hoping that the various plotlines were ever going to converge or resolve, and rather wished that the mysteries would keep multiplying? As of this episode it's possible to sort of imagine how things may start coming together, and it all seems set to be less compelling than the enrapturing strangeness of episode 8. Of course, who really knows. I was heartened by the introduction of a new set of characters at the end of the episode.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#763 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:47 pm

I'm much less concerned with mysteries being solved (even less so than the show seems to have been so far!) than I am with the plot progressing in a substantive way. Those two things are different, even if they're adjacent to one another.

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Finch
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Re: Twin Peaks

#764 Post by Finch » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:26 pm

Anyone else realise that 16 July was the day the Trinity test was carried out in 1945? And tonight's Part 10 is called Laura is the One. I wouldn't mind another Gotta Light?-style episode, especially after last week's somewhat boring Part 9.

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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Twin Peaks

#765 Post by carmilla mircalla » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:06 pm

I have high hopes we're going to get a pretty meaty episode tonight with more of the returning cast and perhaps ones we have not seen yet.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#766 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:32 pm

Part 10 was the best “plot” episode of the season so far (since two of them are essentially Lynch art exhibitions and those are superior to episodes that have moved the plot along, in my opinion), not a moment wasted. And totally bone-chilling at times. Hoping that Lynch is in the mood for a Tarantino-esque round of comeuppance by the end of the season for a few characters.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#767 Post by oh yeah » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:31 pm

Huh. I thought this was easily the worst part thus far, Lynch in full-on ugly and abrasive mode (c.f. parts of Wild at Heart). A strong contrast to last week's Part 9, which was to me one of the best and most beautiful of S3, with a great number of warm, gentle character moments - confused me as to why it was seen as purely an exposition hour (I thought Part 7 was far more guilty of that).
SpoilerShow
I love Naomi Watts in everything, even here, but keeping on with DougieCoop one more episode to do a stupid sex joke you've seen a million times before? Totally absurd. Too cliche'd to be funny, and also in incredibly poor taste. He's got the mental capacity of an autistic child, at best. (Imagine if the genders were reversed!).
All in all, this episode was pretty tone-deaf and wholly unpleasant, and it's the first one I don't really look forward to re-watching.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#768 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:01 am

"Wholly" is a bit too far, but it was definitely uncomfortable to watch at certain points. But I've found moments like that in all of his work, so I've come to expect it to a degree.

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Quot
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Re: Twin Peaks

#769 Post by Quot » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:16 am

Couldn't disagree more. I actually found Watts and MacLachlan's romantic scenes as moving as they were funny. Without the context (the doctor's exam) and payoff (a sweet goodbye kiss), I might agree, but they totally sold it, especially MacLachlan, who continues to impress. I agree with mfunk, I thought this episode was outstanding. It seems like Lynch is embracing some of the "bad acting", same as in the original series.

I found it hard not to love any scene with the Candie triplets.
Last edited by Quot on Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Twin Peaks

#770 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:20 am

I'm confused at some people's reactions to tonight's ep and last week's, basically after ep 8. Seems people feel it's all just plot dumping right now and I know what that entails but did NO ONE guess early on that the most likely course was going to be having the first half of the season setting up numerous plots/mysteries and new characters and then assumign the second half of the season was going to bring everything together? I have not disliked an episode yet at all since it all flows together pretty easily for me. I loved tonight's ep so much and it's only getting better. I have no qualms with how things are connecting right now betwen certain individuals and events and it's only making me increasingly impatient for the next week's episode

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#771 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:14 am

Agreed - I think the only question so far is how much can be tied together before we run out of time. Is this going to be a huge collection of unusual loose ends or does Lynch intend on landing this carefully, knowing it could be the last Twin Peaks content ever produced? We will find out, but I don’t think the plot has nearly as many interesting wrinkles as the asides (even if they’re episode-long) do. Which feels in line with the original series to me.

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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Twin Peaks

#772 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:32 am

I think the other problem is so many people are stuck thinking with that they want to happen rather than letting go and having fun with the new series. That to me has been what has worked the most. This is the most fun I've had with a tv show or movie in a long while. I also feel like if the pace is kept up with how many connections they made tonight it wont be so abrupt or cheating if we get very close to the end having everything finally connected.

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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Twin Peaks

#773 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:57 pm

well this didn't take long but people already claiming Coop was raped by Janey-E because he "couldn't consent"

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Re: Twin Peaks

#774 Post by oh yeah » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 pm

carmilla mircalla wrote:well this didn't take long but people already claiming Coop was raped by Janey-E because he "couldn't consent"
What is so inherently absurd about this? It was a misjudged, gross scene. We have no reason to believe he could consent. Again, I must say: imagine the reaction if the genders were reversed.

Tired of this particular double-standard and this is all I will be saying on the matter

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Re: Twin Peaks

#775 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:07 pm

Agreed. The scene found comedy and squeamishness in how morally uncomfortable it was. That was the whole point.

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