The Big Sick (Michael Showalter, 2017)

[domino harvey]

Michael Showalter's new film the Big Sick is this year's Sundance success story: After a bidding war, Amazon has picked it up for $12 million

[mfunk9786]

Not sure if you've ever heard Emily or Kumail recount that harrowing story on a podcast or other interview format, but count me as not surprised that it holds a heck of a lot of narrative heft.

[mfunk9786]

Trailer

Saccharine trailer music aside, this looks pretty great. Definitely have a better sense of why Amazon paid so much money for it, anyway. I am extremely ready for Kumail Nanjiani to be a gigantic star. Release date is June 23rd, which is prime "plays for 6 weeks at suburban arthouses" territory, too.

[mfunk9786]

This was good! Not the great film that some critics seem to believe it is, but perhaps it's my own prejudices that are keeping it from that level. There've been one too many films in this era (along with the whole podcast and streaming universe, etc) that have focused on characters who are either stand-up or improv comedians, and the formula of "when the plot isn't happening, you're just going to see guys sitting around wisecracking" has gotten so tired, and so stale, that despite this being very much a true story of Kumail Nanjiani's life, I wish someone in the writing process would've encouraged making some sort of modification to his character's career. Judd Apatow no longer seems all that concerned about constructing even a thin veneer for a bunch of funny people to exist in despite it being so successful in his early work - the electronics store in The 40 Year Old Virgin or the flagging internet start-up in Knocked Up, for example (not to mention something non-Apatow like Silicon Valley) - but it seems like since Apatow made Funny People, anything he writes or produces with a stand-up comedian or comedy writer results in just telling a story about a stand-up comedian or comedy writer, with no energy put into providing the audience with something they haven't seen a thousand times in the last few years.

That said, the other merits are rock solid - Zoe Kazan and Nanjiani are very good (even if Nanjiani is occasionally out-acted by talented veteran character actors around him), and the story is well told and affecting. There are a few one-liners that, when seen with a crowd, absolutely destroy - Nanjiani and Gordon's screenplay and Michael Showalter's direction take numerous opportunities to seize upon the tension inherent in the circumstances of the plot to land well-placed jokes with a lot more bombast than if the audience were at ease. And Showalter occasionally has some very clever visual ideas (one example that stands out is seeing a character on stage on the left side of the frame, his body language providing the punchlines to a conversation going on about him on the right side of the frame), especially considering that this is largely from the school of well lit, brightly colored, point and shoot 1.85:1 romantic comedy that doesn't often exceed the visual ambition of a Netflix series. One wishes it had more opportunities to rise above that kind of fare. The 40 Year Old Virgin or Pineapple Express, this is not.

[Black Hat]

Holly Hunter & Ray Romano saved this film in a way I can't remember supporting actors pulling off. What was great about their performances, perhaps speared by being smaller roles, was it left room for you to fill in the blanks with what they were going thru. Remarkably even the subplot with the two of them which in most films you'd ask yourself, was that really necessary? Worked fantastically well.

The other interesting part of this movie, how these two figured it out, was entirely left to our imagination. How do you make a film telling a love story that leaves out the story? What part of the relationship we did see largely worked because of Zoe Kazan's charming presence.

I was incredibly conflicted by the representation of Pakistani/Muslim Americans. I can totally see people walking out of this movie thinking 'this bitch was in a coma and this dude's crazy muslim family still disowned his sorry ass'. Does it happen? Yes. Is this story true? Sure, but when we're trying to make the case that 'the other' is just like us movies like this make that a tough sell because the seed of this absurd behavior is now planted as normal. This leaves aside why this practice is condemned, but is it really any different than a Jewish person's family wanting them to marry another Jewish person or a Catholic? Or any other expectation a family puts on their children to marry inside racial, religious or nationality lines. Happens all the time.

On another note am I the only person who likes Judd Apatow a lot in interviews or his twitter feed and has a lot of respect for his love/knowledge of comedy, but doesn't think anything he's ever been involved with has ever been funny? Dude took Amy Schumer under his wing, come on man.

[mfunk9786]

Well, I’m not touching that final paragraph with a 10 foot pole, but re: the Muslim family - I left with warm feelings about them, and I think the final scene we see them in is a strong indicator that their relationship is in a healing process. Not sure whether that’s how it’ll play for everyone, but I think they got a very fair shake.

[knives]

Saying a muslim can't show a muslim family dynamic in a self deprecating light in a small little romantic comedy is just a sort of racist right hand to the left hand you're arguing against.

is it really any different than a Jewish person's family wanting them to marry another Jewish person...

I imagine it features a lot less singing.

[Black Hat]

Well, I’m not touching that final paragraph with a 10 foot pole, but re: the Muslim family - I left with warm feelings about them, and I think the final scene we see them in is a strong indicator that their relationship is in a healing process. Not sure whether that’s how it’ll play for everyone, but I think they got a very fair shake.

Don't get the 10 foot pole comment, about Apatow? Yeah I've heard people feel the way you do, but I wonder how the crowd who isn't woke will take it.

Saying a muslim can't show a muslim family dynamic in a self deprecating light in a small little romantic comedy is just a sort of racist right hand to the left hand you're arguing against.

I never said they can't. I guess I just wish there was a story told with people from the mid east where their heritage is in the background. Have you seen the film? Because it's not self deprecating, nor is the movie in any way 'a small little romantic comedy'.

[mfunk9786]

So you want Nanjiani to push his culture to the side even though it’s obviously a big part of his life? I guess I still don’t see the point.

[knives]

I'll admit I haven't seen it and based those comments on the trailer, but as to your first sentence that sort of erasure is a major problem with the American mindset from both left and right. It's why I dislike the idea of a melting pot and prefer a metaphor of a salad wherein each part weighs in on the other while remaining distinct allowing the intensity of the diversity to be the core of the please. Why should a Pakistani American (which by the way is not the mid-east), especially one who is or seems to be from the trailer anyway first generation, not have as a a major part of their character Pakistani culture and concerns? Why should that be left to the background if it is a part of the artist's character? That would be like saying Moonlight shouldn't have focused on the black heritage so much. If you do that all your left with is the Huxtables and nobody wants that.

As a Jew this sort of thing in film is something I'm hyper aware of given the complicated history in Hollywood with that. For decades Jews weren't allowed to be scene except in a crypto fashion in Lubitsch and Three Stooges comedies. When they finally were allowed it would either be entirely offscreen (e.g. Crossfire) or as aliens (e.g. Gentleman's Agreement). Even that was only due to the Holocaust pity party. That's why in many respects I prefer the radio and television depictions of that era because you got see real American Jews like in The Goldbergs. That's also why I cherish Woody Allen so much even if he isn't perfect. Unlike his best contemporaries like Kubrick and Polanski he never bothered with having his character's Jewishness signaled through metaphors and winks. Being of a middle eastern ethnicity was in the foreground (even if his is of a more European culture) with the differences highlighted in an honest way that is often therapeutic (this is also why I really hope we can finally get a big Sephardi filmmaker out there talking about being Sephardic which has a number of different experiences from Ashkenazim).

That I feel this way even though there's been about thirty years of foregrounded representation means that for Muslims, Bedouins, Christian Arabs, and all the rest they must be going mad due to the lack of a foregrounded, real representation. For example, I didn't like Sam and Amira which I assume is this film's greatest precedent, but I can emphasize entirely for those Muslims who were very satisfied in Amira's very normal presentation that did nothing to ignore her specific cultural experience. Sorry for going on so long, but as I guess has some obviousness to it this question of representation is deeply personal to me.

edit; what Mfunk said more succinctly.

[Black Hat]

Nah, who cares about him? I just wish producers were down to make movies where middle eastern people are just Americans kind of like Rami Malek in Mr. Robot, but again even there you have the female muslim character.

[knives]

Clearly you care if that was a detraction of the film for you.

[Black Hat]

I'll admit I haven't seen it and based those comments on the trailer, but as to your first sentence that sort of erasure is a major problem with the American mindset from both left and right.

I'm not saying erasure dude, I'm saying I imagine not every Pakistani family shares the same mindset as the family in The Big Sick. In other words what goes on in this film will further cement a stereotype. There are plenty of progressive Middle Eastern families and I think it would be way cooler for their stories to be told.

Full disclosure this topic is one I've given a lot of thought as tho born in NYC my family is from Iran. Now outside of one night years ago at a lower east side dive where a swinger couple from Cincinnati wanted to simultaneously fuck and kill me* I've never had anybody say shit to me, but I also don't fit any middle eastern stereotypes.

*To be fair most of my exes share in this conflict, but my ethnicity has nothing to do with it!

What has happened tho is with a couple of girlfriends my background made them if not uneasy, at least skeptical. One girl droned on and on about how my family would accept her, I was like 'bitch you ain't meeting my moms but it's not cause of that' and the other was afraid of how I would treat her because people from my part of the world 'behead and stone women'.

Now granted one girl was Staten Island trash, the other refuse from Middle Village but still if I've heard this, someone who most Iranians think is half European or American, what are other people hearing?

[Black Hat]

Clearly you care if that was a detraction of the film for you.

I think you're trying to have a different argument with me than one about the point I raised, which was I felt conflicted with respect to this aspect of the film. Never said it detracted from it, in fact the only thing I felt was lame about the movie was there wasn't much meat to the love story part of it.

Also hard to discuss a film with someone who is basing his views on the trailer, but I digress.

[knives]

I'll admit I haven't seen it and based those comments on the trailer, but as to your first sentence that sort of erasure is a major problem with the American mindset from both left and right.

I'm not saying erasure dude, I'm saying I imagine not every Pakistani family shares the same mindset as the family in The Big Sick. In other words what goes on in this film will further cement a stereotype. There are plenty of progressive Middle Eastern families and I think it would be way cooler for their stories to be told.

Full disclosure this topic is one I've given a lot of thought as tho born in NYC my family is from Iran. Now outside of one night years ago at a lower east side dive where a swinger couple from Cincinnati wanted to simultaneously fuck and kill me* I've never had anybody say shit to me, but I also don't fit any middle eastern stereotypes.

*To be fair most of my exes share in this conflict, but my ethnicity has nothing to do with it!

What has happened tho is with a couple of girlfriends my background made them if not uneasy, at least skeptical. One girl droned on and on about how my family would accept her, I was like 'bitch you ain't meeting my moms but it's not cause of that' and the other was afraid of how I would treat her because people from my part of the world 'behead and stone women'.

Now granted one girl was Staten Island trash, the other refuse from Middle Village but still if I've heard this, someone who most Iranians think is half European or American, what are other people hearing?

Well certainly it is true that no culture is monolithic, but that's clearly Nanjiani's experience which is an experience no less valid than any other. While it would be good to get a mix of cultural experiences out there we are sadly at the point where any experiences are a novelty. I think that goes back to what I said about Allen and how however imperfect or different from my own his portraits are at least Annie Hall isn't another Holocaust flick.

As to your last thoughts, well, yeah, that is the misfortune of America. That's why light skinnedness is such a huge topic among African Americans or not being too Jewy is common dinner conversation in some Jewish communities. If I understand your reason for bringing it up, which is a huge caveat, than yeah that is a major reason why a multitude of experiences should be told. At the same time that isn't any reason for dishonesty and if the more stereotypical 'I will disown you' experience is Nanjiani's than that should be seen as valid as well.

[John Shade]

This conversation is taking some interesting turns. I'm still looking forward to the movie: all I can add to the previous arguments I'll keep brief. I think in season one of Master of None, Aziz Ansari makes a point about wishing the main character of a romantic comedy could be an Indian dude and not Ryan Gosling, so cheers for that happening at least.

On another note am I the only person who likes Judd Apatow a lot in interviews or his twitter feed and has a lot of respect for his love/knowledge of comedy, but doesn't think anything he's ever been involved with has ever been funny? Dude took Amy Schumer under his wing, come on man.

When I was a kid I loved the movie Heavyweights. I'm sure even now I'd find some of its stupidity and Ben Stiller's antics funny.

[mfunk9786]

The idea of a body of work as sprawling and long-running as Apatow’s having absolutely nothing that works for you strikes me as dishonest, especially when the cheapest shot possible (Schumer) is the example given.

[The Narrator Returns]

Also, a body of work with goddamn Freaks and Geeks in it.

[mfunk9786]

And, as previously mentioned, fucking Heavyweights! Never let anyone sign your checks!

[knives]

Honestly I would put Heavyweights leagues ahead of his two shows which aren't as compelling for me.

[Black Hat]

[*]

The idea of a body of work as sprawling and long-running as Apatow’s having absolutely nothing that works for you strikes me as dishonest, especially when the cheapest shot possible (Schumer) is the example given.

Hold on now I did say I like his public persona and respect him a lot so I wasn't taking cheap shots. Amy Schumer has always been bad, even before recent controversies and if you back her the way he has you deserve to be knocked for it. I respect Freaks and Geeks but it wasn't my thing. Heavyweights I have not seen, but will. I just think his his films are either corny or way too long, hire that man an editor!

The one Apatow vehicle I did love was Undeclared but it's probably his least successful venture to date so I guess I'm a weirdo.

[domino harvey]

Browsing his film CV, I only like (and just "like") Bridesmaids, but on the TV end there's the Ben Stiller Show, the Critic, and the Larry Sanders Show, which are all three fantastic in their own fashions

[Black Hat]

This conversation is taking some interesting turns. I'm still looking forward to the movie: all I can add to the previous arguments I'll keep brief. I think in season one of Master of None, Aziz Ansari makes a point about wishing the main character of a romantic comedy could be an Indian dude and not Ryan Gosling, so cheers for that happening at least.

I haven't seen season 2 yet, but Ansari and Yang do a much better job of reppin in my view than this film. I also reject this film being called a romcom it's a Terms of Endearment style dramedy with a happier ending.

[Black Hat]

Browsing his film CV, I only like (and just "like") Bridesmaids, but on the TV end there's the Ben Stiller Show, the Critic, and the Larry Sanders Show, which are all three fantastic in their own fashions

How involved was he on those shows? I know he wrote Sanders, was not aware of him being in the mix with the other two.

[knives]

Browsing his film CV, I only like (and just "like") Bridesmaids, but on the TV end there's the Ben Stiller Show, the Critic, and the Larry Sanders Show, which are all three fantastic in their own fashions

I thought you enjoyed Forgetting Sarah Marshall?