Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

[Trees]

They can't replace him for JL1 nine days before they start shooting, because they'd need to fire him and Deborah Snyder as producers for the whole DC slate, too. They'd lose far too much money for their shareholders if they did that.

Much less trouble to reign in the budget to $150-175m, push the light/fun formula onto Terrio's script and Snyder's direction, and just roll with it.

Basically, they need to treat him like Marvel treated Whedon on A:AOU, because the brand demands it.

Then he can be there the producer while other, more pliable directors play in their cash machine sandbox with lower budgets and more standard characterizations.

He's not directing JL2. I wager he doesn't even want to anymore.

Warner Bros did very well when they brought on a talented and even then fairly powerful filmmaker, Chris Nolan. Maybe they should be looking for "talented" instead of "pliable" directors and they might not be crying at the box office, like this weekend.

[captveg]

Different era; connected universes have changed the game.

They can be talented, but they have to understand that formula/brand is king when the bugdet gets to $125m+. You can't have Edgar Wright types messing with that. Check any visionary status at the door.

[Trees]

Well you say that, but Nolan's pictures made mountains of money, while these studio-controlled Snyder films are biting dust at the box office relatively speaking.

[captveg]

And Nolan's films will continue to make such money, because he's his own brand at this point. Snyder will never be that. So he'll deliver the light/fun JL the studio wants, he'll feel frustrated by it as an artist, and he'll go do smaller budgeted, non-DC films for WB.

Can they find another Nolan? Doubt it. They know they got lucky. They'll play it safe going forward - formula films, directors that can work within that formula. Rinse repeat, and watch the money roll in. Affleck and his Batman film(s) will be the exception.

All other visionary directors can play at the studio, but not at a budget above $100-125m, and not with such well known properties.

[Luke M]

How concerned should we be that the reviews are still embargoed?

[captveg]

Embargo ends tonight I believe. An embargo is really only of concern if it's held until 24 hrs before release. Anything up to the beginning of the week of release is pretty normal.

[Luke M]

Good to know. There's been some positive tweets but hoping to see the reviews soon.

[captveg]

I fully expect a mixed response. Many are gonna think it's a fun ride, others will think its too empty, and yet others will think it's good, but not worth the hype. I think it will be generally better received by comic book fans than BvS because it tells a more general audience friendly story, but I wonder what critics will think, because I don't think it'll satisfy that crowd fully, either.

[tenia]

Marvel does a great job with humor in Avengers and profits heavily.

A great job at what ? Having unfunny jokes that bombs every time ? If there is one thing Marvel movies haven't improved upon since 2005's Fantastic Four, it's upping their game on humor, Avengers, and even more Age of Ultron, being probably the worst of the bunch with their cheap bad sitcom-esque humor. Ant-Man was much more effective at this simply because it felt it wasn't trying so hard to have one-liners and punchlines, but just trying to be light-heartedly funny.

As for the humor, I believe it's a case-by-case basis. Why shouldn't we have lighter movies ? For sure, the Nolan Batman movies weren't funny and were dead-serious instead, but that was the take Nolan took and remained consistent with it. But Suicide Squad is a different movie, outside of these 3 movies, with most likely a different take and tone so why not ?

Superman is not meant to be a dark, brooding, humorless character like Batman.

I found Nolan's first two Batman films to be much more enjoyable fare that had me smiling a lot if not often laughing whereas Man of Steel was a bloated and somber mess that left me feeling depressed. I know the film has its champions, but I just didn't find it enjoyable. If I want to feel that way during a movie I'll watch Cries and Whispers instead of a comic book superhero movie.

But why not ? Many printed material are evaluating this side of Superman, I don't understand why film adaptations couldn't do the same. Should adaptations be limited to the most general aspect of the character ? "He's mostly lighter than Batman, so that's what I expect from the adaptation, not an adaptation picking within the few comics where he's dark and brooding" ?
It reminds me of people who "don't go to the movies to see things they can see in the real life", like a social drama by Ken Loach or the Dardennes.
Why not ? Why couldn't super-hero movies be deep and dark (if well done of course) ? It isn't even something new, Burton did it twice 35 years ago.

When the films work they bring in the dough and critical favor.

I'm personally waiting for the day Marvel Cinema will go bankrupt as Marvel Comics did in the 90s because people got tired of the huge amount Marvel was releasing at the same time that people just were in general tired with super-heroes. I'm quite certain the day will come for the MCU to have become simply too big and cloated and viewers will be tired of simply watching movies which are 2h trailers for the next movie, and every 5 of them you have a 2h30 cross-over trailer for the next 5 movies.

I'm still surprised it's working so well with them, especially when looking at the dismal quality of most of the Phase 2 movies. It probably doesn't help having a Thor movie directed by Alan Taylor (with the 1st one by Kenneth Branagh and the third by... Taika Waititi ? Are they randomly chosing the Thor directors ?), Civil War by the Russo brothers, and I'm reading Doctor Strange will be directed by... Scott Derrickson ?!
In some weird consistant way though, it fits nicely with getting directors like Peyton Reed who directed... Yes Man.
I much prefered, retrospectively, Man of Steel than many of those Marvel movies.

In 2017, there will be 3 movies and about 7 TV shows. Agents of SHIELD are getting related to Civil War and bringing in Ghost Rider. Guardians of Galaxy 2 will most likely be tied to Infinity War. The Netflix TV shows are very likely to cross-over at some point (most evidently Jessica Jones with Luke Cage and Iron Fist), up to the point they will merge into The Defenders as the individual movies merge into Avengers or Civil War. Miss one of the humpteen Marvel thing and you won't be able to follow the next one.

When Feige says on future MCU films, "it is still a big chess board for 2020 and beyond", it says a lot about what the movies are worth individually and I'm quite sure the whole thing will collapse under its own weight as Marvel Comics did back in the time. It surprises me Marvel is actually basically doing with the MCU what creatively brought their Comics division to crash at the time (and forced them later to go through the House of M + Decimation story-arc to voluntarily reduce the number of mutants they had to write for).

[mfunk9786]

Wellp, critics are either shrugging or slaughtering this one. I haven't seen a superhero film theatrically since Captain America back in 2011, and it looks like that streak continues - there's no way LQ would entertain seeing a bad movie just so I can gawk at Margot Robbie (though she did make me sit through Magic Mike XXL....)

[matrixschmatrix]

To judge from everything I've seen and heard, this movie is going to be Robbie, Will Smith, and Viola Davis cast adrift in an endless sea of awful ideas

[Luke M]

Boy, the reviews are brutal. I'll probably still check this out because of Robbie but I was really hoping for a decent movie.

[domino harvey]

Wellp, critics are either shrugging or slaughtering this one. I haven't seen a superhero film theatrically since Captain America back in 2011, and it looks like that streak continues - there's no way LQ would entertain seeing a bad movie just so I can gawk at Margot Robbie (though she did make me sit through Magic Mike XXL....)

Your wife made you see one of the best films of the year it was released?! That monster!

I assume perusing the inevitable parade of GIFs of Robbie from this film will give the same amount of entertainment as sitting through 2+ hours of this without the time investment, so unless I hear a compelling defense from someone whose taste I generally match up with, that's the route I plan to take

[mfunk9786]

Some high[and low]lights from early reviews:

"Meanwhile we have this thing, this garish, overstaffed, overstuffed, blithely sadistic corporate directive disguised as a PG-13 summer movie for all ages. (You'd be pretty stupid to let anyone under 13 see it. Actually you'd be pretty stupid to let anyone over 13 see it too.)" - Michael Phillips

"Robbie steals the movie from most of her co-stars, but the real scene-stealer is Viola Davis, playing soberly dressed federal apparatchik Amanda Waller: it’s an excellent, coolly menacing performance." - Peter Bradshaw

"Suicide Squad is yet another movie about destroying a big glowing beam of energy in the sky. The final battle takes place in a backlit cloud. It’s like watching people fight in a steam room through foggy glasses." - Matt Singer

"“Own that shit!” Harley Quinn barks at El Diablo after the pyro interrupts an uncharacteristically organic scene in order to share his origin story. Her words are delivered with such woodenness that they might as well be written on the side of her baseball bat." - David Ehrlich

"Although the film marks a departure for writer-director David Ayer from his usual turf of combat and/or street realism (Fury, End of Watch), its grungy, gritty texture not only feels related to his usual milieu but also to the malevolent, eternally nocturnal world conjured up by the Batman: Arkham video games." - Todd McCarthy

"Harley Quinn’s entrance is the best moment in Suicide Squad. After that, you can leave. Robbie is a criminally appealing actress, likable in just about every way, but that intro aside, Suicide Squad doesn’t serve her well. It serves no one well, least of all its audience." - Stephanie Zacharek

Bummer. This looked like the first enthusiastically campy comic book film in years but it sounds like it gives itself over to the same uninspired bleakness that has become the trademark of so much of this stuff.

Wellp, critics are either shrugging or slaughtering this one. I haven't seen a superhero film theatrically since Captain America back in 2011, and it looks like that streak continues - there's no way LQ would entertain seeing a bad movie just so I can gawk at Margot Robbie (though she did make me sit through Magic Mike XXL....)

Your wife made you see one of the best films of the year it was released?! That monster!

If only I'd been able to see it your way. ...I did not. The first one remains a very, very good film though.

[domino harvey]

The Telegraph's review makes it sound like a fascinating trainwreck, I'm afraid curiousity may win out at some point after all

[The Narrator Returns]

Plus David Ehrlich suggests in his review that the movie is practically a highlight reel of Robbie ass shots, so it might just be a domino must-see.

[mfunk9786]

Now now, let's not be crude - this is online, have some decorum

Turns out we're seeing this Friday night because it hits just the right note of "Fine, if you buy my ticket." Huzzah! *satisfied chef finger kiss*

[captveg]

I usually agree the most with Wesley Morris, Mark Hughes, Richard Roeper and Peter Travers when it comes to written reviews, in that order. Morris, unfortunately, has been on hiatus since Grantland shut down. Hughes liked it, Roeper and Travers didn't. Gleaning those three reviews indicates to me that I'll probably like it but have some specific issues with it.

[Self]

Wesley Morris is the Critic at Large for the New York Times. He doesn't write reviews as frequently but I remember one for The Shallows a few weeks back.

[carmilla mircalla]

Not that anyone should even rely on movie reviews but with an Ayer movie it's pointless. He's one of the biggest bonehead directors and coming from the guy who made End Of Watch, Sabotage and Fury it's a real "take what you can get" thing with his movies. Basically anticipating that a movie of his will not be so good is on par with predicting that you will get burned if you touch a scorching hot surface.

That being said considering the costume design and character designs and the terrible dialogue in the trailers albeit out of context though I can't imagine within the film will fare any better and the fact that three of the worst actors of all time: Leto, Kinnaman and Smith are in it what are we really supposed to think about it other than pure hackery?

[Luke M]

Not that anyone should even rely on movie reviews but with an Ayer movie it's pointless. He's one of the biggest bonehead directors and coming from the guy who made End Of Watch, Sabotage and Fury it's a real "take what you can get" thing with his movies. Basically anticipating that a movie of his will not be so good is on par with predicting that you will get burned if you touch a scorching hot surface.

That being said considering the costume design and character designs and the terrible dialogue in the trailers albeit out of context though I can't imagine within the film will fare any better and the fact that three of the worst actors of all time: Leto, Kinnaman and Smith are in it what are we really supposed to think about it other than pure hackery?

Well that escalated quickly

[domino harvey]

And somehow none of the three are Jai Courtney

[captveg]

Wesley Morris is the Critic at Large for the New York Times. He doesn't write reviews as frequently but I remember one for The Shallows a few weeks back.

Thanks. He just seems to do so few these days.

[thirtyframesasecond]

And somehow none of the three are Jai Courtney

Haha, that was EXACTLY what I was about to say!

[The Narrator Returns]

A Warner Bros. source tells the Hollywood Reporter about behind-the-scenes drama, including the studio bringing in a trailer-editing company to handle final cut.