Silent Film Music

[HerrSchreck]

But obviously Hupperz is the man, and this rumored new score of his sounds intriguing. I don't mean to just ride Marty but he really should play the game.

Nobody has mentioned the fine Carl Davis scores for Turner, esp. The Wind (a birlliant piece of music) and The Crowd. Certainly orchestral scores for big pictures like this are ideal. But I really don't like scores (in silent or sound movies) that set out to fight the image (viz. Glass and Kundun, mentioned elsewhere.)

Schrecko, if I never hear another organ again I'll be a happy man. I was disabused of them at a young age. Paramount had a flagship 1920s movie palace in Sydney (demolished in the mid sixties) which roadshowed all their "A"list and Vistavision titles. I remember as a kid going to Saturday matinees at which an old tart called Maureen Hennessy (as in cognac) played organ medleys on a hydraulically elevated grand Wurly before the show. We used to pelt her from the balcony with candy, which was generally successful in shutting her up. There are still a couple of old cinemas doing this here with "classic" revival fare. The whole experience sounds hyper-camp. You wouldn't catch me there for quids.

I'm pretty sure I did mention Carl Davis. His rendition of Rabaud's original score for THE CHESS PLAYER was about as fine a full-orchestral revisitation-revival of an old original silent score as one can hope for-- absolutely fucking GLORIOUS. Every once & awhile you get scores to silent films you've never seen before (CHESS PLAYER was never released in the US, even originally) which are so excellent that it's a double-discovery. As well this are Davis' his work on the Lloyd's & Chaplins. Another nice score is Adrian Johnston's score for Anointe's LA TERRE. I'd say the group that seems to me to be consistently getting it Quite Right is the BFI-- I have most of Milestone's releases of absolutely fantastic BFI projects... CHESS PLAYER (transfer could be better though), HINDLE WAKES, YEVGENI BAUER, PICCADILLY (the score works ok for me but not as crazy about this one as you dave... something blank & self-consciously repetitive), LA TERRE, I believe SPARROWS has a decent Carter organ score... need to go gome and check the disc) and assume that all these scores were selected by the BFI and part of the masters licensed by MILESTONE. Most of their silent scores I've acquired are right on the money, and never irritating a la Zoyd.

Along a different line, among the sonorized silent films like MAN WHO LAUGHS, TABU, SUNRISE, KING OF KINGS, etc, I'd have to say Hugo Reisenfeld impresses me. I've owned the Fox SUNRISE disc since it became available (became an um 'reviewer' to skoink a copy, first & last time I've ever done such a thing... the release was just too important to play the buy four, send proof of purchase and sit and wait nonsense), and still have not gotten around to listening to the Brock score... and I admire Brock quite a lot!

Another early composer whose work I really admire is Wolfgang Zeller-- I love the VAMPYR score... as well as Pabst's MISTRESS OF ATLANTIS. His music is so utterly unique, moody, and highly exotic.

Here's a bizarro American rarity by Pabst I have a pretty decent VHS master of which I have my doubts will ever make it out on DVD, and am curious if anyone here has seen it: A MODERN HERO.

[marty]

Surely Marty was just being ironic/sarcastic.

Thanks Rufus. =D>

[HerrSchreck]

In a lot of cases striving for authenticity is futile: original scores have been lost, and the majority of viewers probably didn't see the film with its original score on initial release.

Where did you hear this idea, zedz? I've never come across this before in my (naturally incomplete, thus my interest in this) research on silent film. I mean, going all the way back to the Edison company, producers provided exhibitors complete preprinted promotional packages, marketing paraphanalia, mechanicals for program handouts, with elaborate plot renderings and cast/scene photos, lobby cards, etc, even for their one/two reelers... this went double if it was considered a plum release that operated as a real calling card of quality, so to speak, to stick in the head of the veiwer & distributor... as competition for selling reels even in the very earliest days was feirce.

The practice of writing music for full blown silent features (which of course were marketed even more strenuously to exhibitors with vast increases in budgets/means as the films went up over 4-5 reels and their own budgets exponentially increased as means evolved) was important for studios, as it had a marketing tie in in which additional revenue was generated: the selling of piano sheet music for A Signature Song-- placed somewhere in the film, maybe just before or after, or both-- to the everyday consumer, exactly the way film soundtrack albums are sold today. The sheet music came out at the same time as the film, rode the release bubble (just like KING KONG lotteries & Burger King action figures today) to maximize exposure and sales of sheets (which usually had the film poster, or star photo with the fillm logo, on the cover sheet)... The songs had their little moment in the sun just the same as today, being sung in saloons & parlors & family get-togethers with little Agatha showing off her piano lesson-progress while the family gathered round after dinner & cognac and sung to her awkward plunkings. Therefore it was critical for cinemas to play the cue sheets provided by the studios, for the studios' investment in the manufacturing and delivery to all exhibitors of both their sheet music cue dupes for the whole film as well as the consumer sheet music for "flagship songs" (i e. "Broken Blossoms" from the 1919 film of the same name, and "When Love Comes Stealing" from THE MAN WHO LAUGHS in 1928)... and of course cover costs for hiring songwriters.

[HerrSchreck]

Surely Marty was just being ironic/sarcastic.

Thanks Rufus. =D>

I think Rufus--to his credit-- was simply being generous to a fellow Aus.

[tryavna]

you've got scores written by young aspiring musicians who entered their compositions into a TCM scoring contest... and scored full orchestra on digital synth.

Interesting that Schreck brought this up in passing, as nobody else had mentioned it yet. What do people think of these "young composer" scores that TCM sponsors? Personally, I think they're pretty decent. The fact that older, experienced composers like Elmer Bernstein have served as advisors helps a lot, I'm sure. I just sometimes wish that TCM were looking for <ahem> better movies rather than some of the more sentimental ones they have been using.

Incidentally, TCM will be premiering this year's "young composer" movie later this month.

[htdm]

I found them to be generally good as well.

There have been exceptions though and, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Maria Newman a Young Film Composer selection? (I may have that wrong --I know she is Alfred's daughter which probably means wouldn't need the competition) Her score for Mr. Wu was perfectly awful -- aiming for stereotype over atmosphere, constantly overpowering the image, and just plain hard on the ears -- and it set off a cycle of deservedly negative posts over on the silent film newsgroup. But for every Newman, there have been many genuinely enjoyable scores.

I imagine that this competition must be difficult for the composers. On the one hand, they want to use this as an opportunity to do something more than simply turn in a seamless accompaniment. But at the same time, the better ones realize that their score must balance their artistic interpretation with expectations about silent film accompaniment in general as well as show sensitivity to the film.

The score for Camille was a good balance I found as was that for Laugh, Clown, Laugh (I was relieved that he didn't rely on the title song as I've heard others do, but surprised that he didn't even use it at all).

As for the program itself, I can't praise TCM highly enough for thinking of such a creative way to provide new scores for films that are languishing in their vaults with an opportunity for new musicians to reach a wider audience. I think this is a huge contribution to keeping interest in silent film alive.

[djali999]

The TCM Young Composers stuff often turns good results, I was especially pleased with The Cameraman and The Unknown from them. I can't deny I was somewhat disappointed at the announcement of the next TCM Archives being Laurel & Hardy, but pickers can't be choosers.

Some disorganized thoughts on silent film music:

The worst, by far the WORST original effort I've run into in creating a new soundtrack to a classic silent is the Kino disc of The Penalty - it's been touched on before in this thread but suffice to say it's distracting to the point of madness. Let's not forget that this, too, samples voice tracks... various shrieks, whining voices, and at one point what sounds like a, I kid you not, evil laugh from Doom II. The quality and superb lunacy of the film more than supports itself in such poor company, and the disc itself is well done, but damn if that isn't a significant blemish.

The absolute other extreme end of the spectrum is Carl Davis' work for Phantom of the Opera - like the film it sometimes plays right over the top and, like the film, this is weirdly arresting and entrancing. I especially approve of the union between image and music in the rooftop scene on Image's DVD, with the newly restored color tints... the wide shot of the Phantom's red cloak billowing in the wind as Davis' score thunders in the background gives me chills.

Nosferatu is a frustrating case. The image quality of Kino's DVD is excellent but it's impossible to enjoy the film with the provided soundtracks. I kept and find myself returning to Image's second DVD, which may not be great but at least allows me to sink into the atmosphere of the film. Schrek noted something interesting that I find especially true about Nosferatu: the older and more incomplete the thing looks the more weirdly engaging it is. For what it's worth I much prefer the unrestored Image version, with semi-incomplete title cards and characters that float in and out like a dream. Kino's restored version just explains too much of the mystery out of the film.

One score I like which is practically universally despised is the Club Foot Orchestra on Sherlock, Jr. Although I admit preferable accompaniment is easy to image in this case, it tends to avoid adding fakey "zips" to a lot of the jokes and really gracefully slides though that brilliant billiard-balls scene, which plays exactly as it should: suspenseful and hilarious. Generally the Keaton scores are pretty good, although many of them try too hard to add little percussive sounds every time the man performs a pratfall.

[zedz]

the majority of viewers probably didn't see the film with its original score on initial release.

Where did you hear this idea, zedz? I've never come across this before in my (naturally incomplete, thus my interest in this) research on silent film.

My understanding is that in many cases the official scores for big films would often be played at premiere engagements and then sit on the shelf (or disappear completely). A lot of cinemas wouldn't have the musical resources to deliver an orchestral score and would rely on an organist or pianist to semi-improvise an accompaniment based on well-known tunes, books of themes and a loose cue sheet (e.g. Ballroom scene - Blue Danube Waltz; Romantic Interlude). Many modern accompanists to silent films do the same thing. A signature song of the sort you mention would have been part of the mix (such as 'Always' in Lonesome), but it's a big leap from a signature song to a composed score. The organist at the local theatre wasn't learning several new symphony-length compositions every week.

There are several examples that spring to mind. I believe the Shostakovich score for New Babylon was only performed a couple of times (disastrously) when the film was originally released, and only rediscovered much later, with its kinks only finally ironed out in the last few years. The Criterion release of Haxan, as I recall, relates a similar story of early abandonment of the original score.

Big Hollywood productions certainly produced, and enthusiastically promoted, original scores for their films, but then, as now, big Hollywood productions were in the minority, and a lot of silent films didn't, to my knowledge, indulge in the extravagant expense of a bespoke score. The original accompaniment for many of these films was more likely to be one of those semi-improvised, semi-generic accompaniments mentioned above.

EDIT: Here's wikipedia on the differences between and relative popularity of Improvised, Compiled, and Composed scores in the silent era. This suggests that Cue Sheets were aimed at perhaps 25% of cinemas and their actual usage was haphazard at best.

[viciousliar]

You're so wonderfully down-to-earth, Gregory. Calm, collected and very bright. Not to mention benevolent. You're a great asset to this forum.

[Michael Kerpan]

The kinks in "Last Babylon" were due mainly to political censorship. Because of the very careful relationship between the score and the film (contrapuntal -- as opposed to mere "accompaniment) -- any slashes also impacted the coordination of image and sound.

[unclehulot]

The Criterion release of Haxan, as I recall, relates a similar story of early abandonment of the original score.

Ah, but here's the problem with many "original" scores, they're often quickly assembled hodge-podges better forgotten! Perhaps a better case can be made for it than Gillian Anderson's lazy effort at reconstructing this one ....when the composition (basically ONE for each reel) is done, she simply starts over. There's nothing remotely scene-specific in this approach, even if one prefers a different approach. The music the original "composer" selected is hardly inspired either.

Sure, there are some wonderful original composed scores, but the art in breathing life into many of these (many are merely cue sheets) is the manner in which they are woven into the performer's approach to performing a score. A FANTASTIC example is the Milestone disc of "The Adventures of Prince Achmed". I've seen the score to it, and it's wonderful music, but requires a MAJOR effort at editing to make it synch....much of the score has to be left out, or it would have to have been played at unidiomatic tempi.

By the way, another wonderful original score, marvellously played and synched is included on the French Gaumont DVD of L'Herbier's "El Dorado", composed by Marius-Francois Gaillard, a name otherwise unknown to me.

[zedz]

The Criterion release of Haxan, as I recall, relates a similar story of early abandonment of the original score.

Ah, but here's the problem with many "original" scores, they're quickly assembled hodge-podges!

Which was the other point I was making. Oh well: swings and roundabouts.

[Alonzo the Armless]

Well, here's one person who loves the Alloy Orchestra and the scores they did for silent films. I have no problem what kind of percussion they use, as long as they set the right mood for the scenes being shown. I admit I enjoy seeing them perform live with a film, but I still think their music works well on DVD.

Should STRIKE, UNKNOWN & Image's MAN W MOVIE CAMERA (though still better than Kino's Nyman edition) really have heavy rock drum solos with constant leaning on a swish cymbal (technical name for the cymbal he always hits which sounds like a garbage lid)?

If it works in setting the right mood, than, hell, yeah! Just because those sort of instruments weren't used at the time the story takes place doesn't mean that they don't convey the atmosphere of what you're watching onscreen. The music is stirring and rousing when needed and sad and melancholoy at the proper moments. The Alloy also has a sense of humor about them in their choice of instruments like toy whistles, which work perfectly in silent comedies.

I've always looked forward to the Alloy visiting Detroit and have introduced a few people (including my 8 year old nephew) to silent film that had never seen them before. They all fell in love with the movies and gave me the impression that the Alloy Orchestra had a lot to do with it.

[HerrSchreck]

My understanding is that in many cases the official scores for big films would often be played at premiere engagements and then sit on the shelf (or disappear completely). A lot of cinemas wouldn't have the musical resources to deliver an orchestral score and would rely on an organist or pianist to semi-improvise an accompaniment based on well-known tunes, books of themes and a loose cue sheet (e.g. Ballroom scene - Blue Danube Waltz; Romantic Interlude). Many modern accompanists to silent films do the same thing. A signature song of the sort you mention would have been part of the mix (such as 'Always' in Lonesome), but it's a big leap from a signature song to a composed score. The organist at the local theatre wasn't learning several new symphony-length compositions every week.

Big Hollywood productions certainly produced, and enthusiastically promoted, original scores for their films, but then, as now, big Hollywood productions were in the minority, and a lot of silent films didn't, to my knowledge, indulge in the extravagant expense of a bespoke score. The original accompaniment for many of these films was more likely to be one of those semi-improvised, semi-generic accompaniments mentioned above.

Of course only large cinemas in the silent era provided full orchestra accompaniment-- they were of course the minority. And absolutely, even a mid-20's Fairbanks big budget all-cylinders turning blockbuster would go out with two types of sheet music, one with an orchestral score for NY/Chicago/LA, etc./major European cinema venues (still the minority in those cities, you're absolutely right), and the piano-organ cue sheets for the rest of the world. And you're absolutely right that the former was the form of supplied sheet music that was a full-blown original "score" in the true sense of the word, while the majority of supplied paino/organ sheet music was a mixture of some original figures mixed with a hodgepodge of "sound-effects" ie piano notes mimicking doorbells, suspense to match onscreen action (music cues noting "catch" this or "catch" that), and a general filler soup of musical references from contemporary tunes & classics that the studio felt matched the feel of the film.

One thing: I seriously doubt that most of these guys playing piano were "learning/rehearsing" anything. If they could not go in with little rehearsal and play their cue-sheets by sightreading (like many professional studio musicians do today for the lighter side of jingle work), chances are they couldn't handle the job to begin with. The amount of material coming weekly precluded memorization. So that was not a point I'd ever tie to my inquiry.

But I don't know that most paid accompanists discarded the sheet music provided to them, for first run features in particular-- regardless of what the original-music-to-existing-figures percentile was on the sheet music itself. Following the cues provided allowed them to anticipate action onscreen and provide dynamic counterpoints & sound-effects, and taking the liberty of ignoring the sheet music and dooing your own thing could suck a lot of the liveliness out of the film for the audience, especially during the first few screenings of the film where the player hadn't seen the film yet and had no idea what was coming (which would allow him to correspond to/anticipate action onscreen). We all here are complaining about bad accompaniment because we know how it can interfere with your digestion of a silent film.

Which was why I was interested in hearing about that-- it would be a sustantial liberty taken by the accompanist, a replaceable schmo with a job description who is essentially being paid by the studios (via the trickle-down of exhibition profits) to play what he's told. It was a stricter job with existing parameters versus what we're used to today when we sit down & listen to Don Sosin in MoMa do whatever he feels like becuase he's A Silent Music Expert. Back then it was a clearly defined job, very much so when running first run features with sheet music and a large studio investment needing recoup. I wonder how much effort was put by the studios into making sure their sheets were being followed.

Well, here's one person who loves the Alloy Orchestra and the scores they did for silent films. I have no problem what kind of percussion they use, as long as they set the right mood for the scenes being shown. I admit I enjoy seeing them perform live with a film, but I still think their music works well on DVD.

Should STRIKE, UNKNOWN & Image's MAN W MOVIE CAMERA (though still better than Kino's Nyman edition) really have heavy rock drum solos with constant leaning on a swish cymbal (technical name for the cymbal he always hits which sounds like a garbage lid)?

If it works in setting the right mood, than, hell, yeah! Just because those sort of instruments weren't used at the time the story takes place doesn't mean that they don't convey the atmosphere of what you're watching onscreen. The music is stirring and rousing when needed and sad and melancholoy at the proper moments. The Alloy also has a sense of humor about them in their choice of instruments like toy whistles, which work perfectly in silent comedies.

I've always looked forward to the Alloy visiting Detroit and have introduced a few people (including my 8 year old nephew) to silent film that had never seen them before. They all fell in love with the movies and gave me the impression that the Alloy Orchestra had a lot to do with it.

It actually makes me feel somewhat better knowing people out there enjoy this group. I wouldn't dare debate your taste-- taste is taste, end of story. What bothers me most is the idea that maybe nobody is actually liking this stuff, and these soundtrack gigs get farmed out because they're a freind of the disc-producer's step-daughter or something like that. Some of these soundtracks-- PENALTY is a perfect example-- I swear it's simply because these discs are produced within a small social circle and they "keep it in the family" and use some dweeb with a Cobain haircut and a goatee and a dream, and let him wheedle away and live out his Composer Fantasy to his heart's content... and to everyone else's irritation.

[dave41n]

This thread has long been dead, but I have a question that I think is relevant. I recently saw MENILMONTANT screened with Arvo Pärt's "Fratres" and "Tabula Rasa" and was fucking blown away. Already one of my favorite films, this accompaniment sent me into the stratosphere. I've always disliked the score on the Kino Avant-Garde DVD, so a change was welcome. But I didn't expect it to work as well as this did. I've tried it at home and it works just as well in that environment. Usually I don't like anachronistic music or that which doesn't seem to be in the tradition of silent scoring or common to the period and many of you seem to be in agreement. But for the sake of discussion, I'm wondering if anyone here uses music from their own collection when viewing silents? Particularly classical music as it has relationship to silent scoring practice. I would imagine it's not common for most because of the kind of effort and knowledge it demands, but if anyone could provide ANY examples that would be great. Maybe an example from a screening? If not, my recommendation for the Pärt accompaniment to MENILMONTANT still stands. It's worth trying.

[markhax]

Has anyone seen really interesting live musical accompaniment for silent films?

Back in 1996 I saw Die Nibelungen screened at the Staatsoper unter den Linden in Berlin, with the original Huppertz score performed by the Babelsberg film orchestra. It was an unforgettable experience. Unfortunately the sound quality of that score on the Kino release is sub-par.

One of the most encouraging things in recent DVD releases is the recuperaton of the original film music where such exists--Metropolis (also Huppertz), Hans Erdmann's 1922 score for Nosferatu, the Meisel score for Potemkin, on which Eisenstein consulted, and tomorrow in NY, we will hear his score for Berlin, Sinfonie einer Großstadt, which I assume will come out on DVD.

[Tommaso]

But for the sake of discussion, I'm wondering if anyone here uses music from their own collection when viewing silents? .

Well, as you pointed out, with many films on the Kino Avantgarde sets it is almost mandatory to use your own accompaniment, at least if that Marotta guy did the 'music'. Something that almost always works for me especially with those avantgarde films is piano music by Erik Satie. Not the well known pieces like the "Gymnopedies" or "Gnossiennes", but try with a collection of his shorter and more playful music. I guess one of the reasons why it works so well is that Satie actually invented the concept of 'furniture music' (we would now call it 'ambient music', but it's essentially the same), music that doesn't have too much of its own value, but serves as a backdrop for other activities. And this is precisely what is needed for silent film music, of course.
If you come to a more 'passionate' or 'melodramatic' film, say of German origin, you might also try early (!) string quartets from Schönberg or Berg. Though these pieces are far too good to be used only as a backdrop.

[ogygia avenue]

A few years ago, I saw Tom Verlaine and Jimmy Ripp perform live accompaniment to some of the avant-garde shorts from the Rohauer collection. This was interesting -- they played very unusual music (within the context of silent film scoring) that complemented the films perfectly.

The Yo La Tengo scores for 1920s nature films are pretty fun. I'm fond of the Bill Frisell scores for Buster Keaton's movies, but I've never been able to get them to sync up to the DVDs.

I also really love the Alloys -- seeing their Metropolis helped me to fall in love with that movie at an impressionable age.

[Gregory]

A few years ago, I saw Tom Verlaine and Jimmy Rip perform live accompaniment to some of the avant-garde shorts from the Rohauer collection. This was interesting -- they played very unusual music (within the context of silent film scoring) that complemented the films perfectly.

Did you know about Kino's DVD of this project?

I'm fond of the Bill Frisell scores for Buster Keaton's movies, but I've never been able to get them to sync up to the DVDs.

I tried that once, too. They must have been projecting them at a slightly different speed. There's probably not much chance of those recordings ever being included on any officially released Keaton DVD, unfortunately.

[ogygia avenue]

There's probably not much chance of those recordings ever being included on any officially released Keaton DVD, unfortunately.

Why is that?

I just saw the Kino DVD of the Ripp/Verlaine shorts. Unfortunately, I have no money and would like to own that...

[Gregory]

In R1, Kino has already released the films and they almost never revamp any of their titles. Even if they eventually go to a new format, including that kind of feature just isn't something Kino would do. Maybe if Go West gets re-released in R2 it could happen but even if whoever produced the disc thought to include this music it might be too expensive to license it from Elektra/Nonesuch .

[HerrSchreck]

In R1, Kino has already released the films and they almost never revamp any of their titles. .

Correction-- they only revamp them only if they're completely insignificant like SHE (which I have fun w here & there too but it wasn't exactly screaming out for revisitation, missing footage or no), or NOSFERATU which has already been out in six gajillion releases.

And don't fuck with Mr. Terranova on needless releases-- forget about getting ME pissed...

[Gregory]

"Correction"? Anyway, I say the more precedents for Kino revamping the better. Especially with Nosferatu. If I had to pick one film from their DVD catalog to take to a desert island, that would probably be it, so the better they can get it in R1 it can only be a good thing for the state of the world. I'll personally be buying the MoC instead, of course.
I definitely know what you mean about other releases being more pressing, but with Kino you take what you get (as you already know of course).

Back on topic a little more, the DVD Talk review of the Verlaine/Rip releasehere (the only one I've found so far) is totally worthless. The reviewer claims that many of these films haven't been seen in decades, which isn't true (they've all been on DVD before in R1). All he really says about them, is that they're "mostly abstract" (the DVDs subtitle is "Music for Experimental Film") and that many are by Man Ray (there are two). And he spelled Bill Frisell's name wrong. Finally, he gives the DVD 2/5 stars for video quality because the original films were in disrepair.
I had quoted another part of the review but deleted them -- it felt just a little too mean-spirited. I'm going to dash off a quick email to him with the corrections.

[HerrSchreck]

You're right greg, reading back I shouldn't have used the word "correction". I was trying to say, in reply to your "they almost never upgrade": "Even worse than 'almost never'. They only do it when it's completely uncalled for."

Their old, shit cut of FAUST should have been upgraded far before NOS imho.

But thanx for linking to that review-- I didn't even know that disc had silents on it. I just thought it was a music doc/performance vid.

[Gregory]

No worries, I was just pushing your buttons a little.