Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

[matrixschmatrix]

I mean, it kind of looks like if you murdered Margot Robbie and petrified her, which I'm assuming is the primary interest for the target market here

[knives]

I didn't know King Herod was still alive.

[Jeff]

The fallout from the response to Batman v. Superman has begun. Warner has ordered reshoots to Suicide Squad in order to make it more "fun."

[captveg]

Bullshit.

No one cobbles together reshoots within a week on a movie this large in response to critic reviews of another film.

Reality: they've had reshoots scheduled for weeks. If anything, it's a response to the rough cut of the film vs. the response to the trailer. It has nothing to do with BvS, as Suicide Squad was *always* intended to have a dark comedy edge to it.

Of course, DC failing gets media clicks, as it's the go-to for negative press and spin. I guess the goal is to get 52 Marvel films every year. Because funsies!

Faraci is such an anti-DC blowhard. There's no way whatsoever that a film with The Joker and Harley Quinn has only the 5 or so jokes that were in the trailer. If you believe that you're, straight up, a complete idiot. Like a toddler, Faraci whines whenever anything isn't brightly colored and a joke. Can't stand him.

[DarkImbecile]

I love that the Marvel and DC partisans are the new liberals and conservatives.

[Jeff]

I love that the Marvel and DC partisans are the new liberals and conservatives.

I was always partial to Betty and Veronica myself.

[DarkImbecile]

I love that the Marvel and DC partisans are the new liberals and conservatives.

I was always partial to Betty and Veronica myself.

I was ardently pro-Betty in my naive youth, but as I've gotten older, gained responsibilities, and seen how the real world works, I've come across to the Veronica side.

Just kidding, Betty or nothing.

[captveg]

I love that the Marvel and DC partisans are the new liberals and conservatives.

It's now verboten on the internet to like both in some circles. It drives me crazy. I like *all 12* of the MCU films so far, but I don't need DC to be the same exact thing, which Faraci and his ilk seem to want. (He also wants the X-Men films to have the MCU vibe). It's like the success of Iron Man and The Avengers suddenly caused comic book film websites to declare "No other tone/style is acceptable, thus saith the nerds."

[domino harvey]

Any side that is not Betty is the wrong side

[Luke M]

I could like DC in the same way I could like Republicans - they'd just have to change everything that makes them them.

[Trees]

As evidenced by Deadpool's staggering box office numbers, comic book superhero fans are dying for some humor and fun in these pictures. Marvel does a great job with humor in Avengers and profits heavily.

I think James Bond fans are dying for some humor, too.

[SpiderBaby]

Do we really need humor in the Batman world again? Not every character needs to be Robert Downey Jr.

[RossyG]

Bruce Wayne could have some wit and charm. I wouldn't want him to go the Tony Stark route, though, and have him addressing people by the name of films and underwear brand names, which I find quite weird. Is it an American thing this "Hey, Reindeer Games... hey, Underoos" stuff?

[Trees]

Christopher Reeve Superman had a lot of humor and fun. But it's all been stripped away, as it has from James Bond.

[captveg]

We can only hope to return to Superman "Bad vibrations?" moments...

[flyonthewall2983]

I don't think the problem is dark and serious vs. fun and sense of humor. It's really just good movie vs. bad movie.

This is in the Batman v. Superman thread, and it really sticks out as how I feel about all this talk about tone. I love the Nolan movies and I really really liked the first two Iron Man movies (third one is okay). Those had a balance of each side of what we're talking about, and were good movies.

[Trees]

There wasn't much humor in The Dark Knight, though some of the Joker's antics were amusing. I think Nolan was able to get away with the lack of humor because Batman is a much darker character than Superman to begin with, and because Nolan's films were so well made, audiences didn't feel the lack of humor or fun.

With Superman, at least for me, some of the humor and fun from the Christopher Reeves days is badly lacking in these current films. Superman is not meant to be a dark, brooding, humorless character like Batman.

Also, humor, fun and panache are badly lacking from the James Bond franchise.

[captveg]

Deborah Snyder said the following about SS films two weeks ago:

"David Ayer’s Suicide Squad has such an amazing, brash tone. It’s fun and it’s about the villains, and it’s super-different than Patty Jenkins’ Wonder Woman, which is an origin story and tells her story."

[matrixschmatrix]

Also, humor, fun and panache are badly lacking from the James Bond franchise.

You know, we're having fun talking about the thing this thread is about, but I'm really curious about what you think about the James Bond movies

[Trees]

Max, I'm making a point that this is a trend, and not just with superhero films....

[HitchcockLang]

There wasn't much humor in The Dark Knight, though some of the Joker's antics were amusing. I think Nolan was able to get away with the lack of humor because Batman is a much darker character than Superman to begin with, and because Nolan's films were so well made, audiences didn't feel the lack of humor or fun.

With Superman, at least for me, some of the humor and fun from the Christopher Reeves days is badly lacking in these current films. Superman is not meant to be a dark, brooding, humorless character like Batman.

Also, humor, fun and panache are badly lacking from the James Bond franchise.

The Dark Knight had a suitably dark atmosphere but was not totally devoid of humor. Rather the humor was organic and fit characters rather than being forced for the sake of comic relief. Off the top of my head, there's Bruce's "it was a... big dog" comment along with the in-joke regarding protecting him from cats, Lucius' rebuttal about blackmailing a rich and powerful man who spends his nights beating criminals to a bloody pulp with his bare fists, as well as many instances of dark humor like the S in front of laughter and the scene where Joker makes the men fight for the last available spot in his crew.

I always thought Nolan's films embraced the darkness of Batman's mythology without forcing it to be dark. It felt organic. Whereas WB electing for a "no jokes" policy in their DC universe until that failed at which point they are now going to superficially force in jokes like some kind of quota. It all feels too scientific to be good human filmmaking. I found Nolan's first two Batman films to be much more enjoyable fare that had me smiling a lot if not often laughing whereas Man of Steel was a bloated and somber mess that left me feeling depressed. I know the film has its champions, but I just didn't find it enjoyable. If I want to feel that way during a movie I'll watch Cries and Whispers instead of a comic book superhero movie.

[Trees]

I always thought Nolan's films embraced the darkness of Batman's mythology without forcing it to be dark. It felt organic. Whereas WB electing for a "no jokes" policy in their DC universe until that failed at which point they are now going to superficially force in jokes like some kind of quota. It all feels too scientific to be good human filmmaking. I found Nolan's first two Batman films to be much more enjoyable fare that had me smiling a lot if not often laughing whereas Man of Steel was a bloated and somber mess that left me feeling depressed. I know the film has its champions, but I just didn't find it enjoyable. If I want to feel that way during a movie I'll watch Cries and Whispers instead of a comic book superhero movie.

What can you expect from a modern Hollywood studio? Their track record is fairly dismal these days, in terms of quality. You need powerful, talented directors -- like Nolan, Fincher, Iñárritu -- to get high-quality pictures out of the Hollywood system.

[captveg]

Hollywood is discovering that formula is king. Star Wars, Marvel, Jurassic World - keep it breezy, light, snarky, and fun and hire the directors that stick to that. When the films work they bring in the dough and critical favor; when they don't, hey, at least you didn't impact them negatively for your next formula film (I'm looking at you, Thor: The Dark World).

It's too risky at this budget level to hope that every auteur brings the masses like Nolan, or the critical prestige like Miller. Those are the exceptions, and it's a world of rules. Or know the characters that are an exception to the audience already, such as Batman.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Terrio and Snyder handle WB's "light and fun" directives for JL.

[Trees]

Don't be too surprised if Snyder is replaced for JL, or JL 2.

[captveg]

They can't replace him for JL1 nine days before they start shooting, because they'd need to fire him and Deborah Snyder as producers for the whole DC slate, too. They'd lose far too much money for their shareholders if they did that.

Much less trouble to reign in the budget to $150-175m, push the light/fun formula onto Terrio's script and Snyder's direction, and just roll with it.

Basically, they need to treat him like Marvel treated Whedon on A:AOU, because the brand demands it.

Then he can be there the producer while other, more pliable directors play in their cash machine sandbox with lower budgets and more standard characterizations.

He's not directing JL2. I wager he doesn't even want to anymore.