The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

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oh yeah
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#404 Post by oh yeah » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:39 pm

I finally watched this. Absolutely loved it; I think it's my favorite Fincher, with all due respect to Gone Girl and Zodiac which are right up there. Didn't catch it in theaters and held off for a while because I have a hard time watching rape scenes and this one sounded awful. Well, it is awful, but in the right way. There's absolutely no hint of titillation, no sexualization, glamorization. It's possibly the most horrific thing I've seen in a film in recent memory; I watched Irreversible years ago and though my memory of it is faded I have the impression even that was not quite so definitively stomach-churning in its portrait of sexual violence as Fincher's film. Particularly hard to take were Lisabeth's anguished screams and howls and grunts throughout as she tries in vain to do anything, anything at all, to get out even though she knows she can't. That moment when he handcuffs her and she realizes what she's in for and we track slowly away from the closed door... absolutely chilling. In short, I don't think this scene was mishandled at all, though I can see myself skipping it over on re-watches.

Visually and in terms of the editing, the film, like Gone Girl and Social Network, shows Fincher getting better and better as he carves out his own style and evolves it further. I mean, he's been a distinct auteur since the 90s but I think there's clearly a switch of aesthetics between Panic Room and Zodiac (though I haven't seen Button, which seems like an outlier) -- and then the last three flicks, with their continuity of the wonderful Reznor/Ross scores and crisp RED-filmed image, seem to me very different from Se7en, The Game and Fight Club, more mature and complex in their play of images. I was just so drawn into this film; Fincher's fast-paced editing style is invigorating without ever being manic and unreadable, every shot carries a certain weight to it, it's just like a masterclass of cinema. And I'm a long time skeptic of the director, but recently I just can't avoid how brilliant the last few films have been in taking on a kind of new style of their own; information-packed, digitally shot treatises on the cruelty and double-crosses and traps of the modern world, scored by this perfectly, sometimes oddly upbeat electronic music which, in a way, recalls a new incarnation of all those Tangerine Dream-scored films in the late 70s/early 80s. The major-key uplift and chugging forward movement of the score goes perfectly with the tenor of the editing which is so relentless and scientifically exact. It's some of the most precise filmmaking out there.

And the cast, yes, wonderful. I dunno, I really need to see this a second time to give a more coherent and balanced response perhaps, but for now I just found this film an embarassment of riches.
SpoilerShow
Also, did anyone else get reminded of Mann's Manhunter in the scene of Craig being held captive while Enya plays? not only the white, white wall behind him (like Lecter's cell in that film), plus Fincher's general debt to Mann, but also the incongruous choice of music, as with Iron Butterfly at the climax of Manhunter.
Further on that, I bet Mann watched this film at least a few times in preparation for Blackhat. Both are brilliantly incisive portraits of our digitized, globalized world. Both Mann and Fincher imbue technology with both awe and a sense of alien eeriness in their depiction of isolated loners with a mastery of the technical coming together with another person for the greater good and forming a tentative bond that's not guaranteed to last. And both may be my favorite films of the decade thus far, for what that's worth.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#405 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:48 pm

Sony is releasing this (and Panic Room) on 4K Blu October 30th.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#406 Post by Lost Highway » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:26 am

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:48 pm
Sony is releasing this (and Panic Room) on 4K Blu October 30th.
Cool, I’m more interested in Panic Room finally getting a blu-ray release.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#407 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:16 am

I'd think any release of Fincher's movies on 4K would look damn sharp. Especially the recent ones, since he shot them in that format.

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tenia
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#408 Post by tenia » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:23 am

Gone Girl would be litterally the perfect choice for UHD, since it's one of the only movies to have had a full 4K workflow (Blade Runner 2049 is close enough, but still is 3.4K, not 4K).

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domino harvey
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#409 Post by domino harvey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:10 pm

The 4K has been cancelled-- tell me again about how Criterion is going to start releasing UHD discs when these can't even get off the ground

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Monterey Jack
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#410 Post by Monterey Jack » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:34 am

Panic Room is one of the films I've been waiting for a Blu release of the most...it's the last standard-def holdout in my Fincher collection. The film was a big hit when released, so I don't know what the holdup is.

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Roscoe
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#411 Post by Roscoe » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:54 am

I could swear that I heard someone, in a discussion about film preservation and the importance of film on actual film in terms of preservation, claim that PANIC ROOM's original digital files (you know what I mean) were not properly maintained and the film basically didn't really exist anymore outside of a few DVDs, which is why the film hasn't appeared on Blu-Ray.

Can anyone back that up, or tell me how very wrong I am?

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solaris72
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#412 Post by solaris72 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am

Roscoe wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:54 am
I could swear that I heard someone, in a discussion about film preservation and the importance of film on actual film in terms of preservation, claim that PANIC ROOM's original digital files (you know what I mean) were not properly maintained and the film basically didn't really exist anymore outside of a few DVDs, which is why the film hasn't appeared on Blu-Ray.

Can anyone back that up, or tell me how very wrong I am?
It seems to be available to stream in HD.

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#413 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:09 am

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:10 pm
The 4K has been cancelled-- tell me again about how Criterion is going to start releasing UHD discs when these can't even get off the ground
Don't ask me to tell you again, because I absolutely will \:D/

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#414 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:54 pm

solaris72 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
Roscoe wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:54 am
I could swear that I heard someone, in a discussion about film preservation and the importance of film on actual film in terms of preservation, claim that PANIC ROOM's original digital files (you know what I mean) were not properly maintained and the film basically didn't really exist anymore outside of a few DVDs, which is why the film hasn't appeared on Blu-Ray.

Can anyone back that up, or tell me how very wrong I am?
It seems to be available to stream in HD.
Given that Panic Room was released theatrically in 2002, there had to have been numerous 35mm prints shipped to cinemas (even if the film was shot and finished digitally). If a protection print is not in storage and the digital files are, indeed, corrupted beyond use, a decent restoration could still be done using exhibition prints.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#415 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:05 pm

Revisited this a little over the weekend. It plays a little more disjointed, and the more disturbing scenes which I just barely tolerated because of how I saw it worked into the bigger picture, I just skipped completely. It's still a strong work to some degree, and for me better than the Swedish original, and works as a stand-alone instead of the first in a trilogy as was amazingly expected. And it's prescient to any number of things in our face in the news everyday, but perhaps errs a little too much on the side of the kind of fantasy lives of journalists-turned-authors and the idealized Goth manic pixie dream girl to hold up in today's light. Jury's still out a little bit on all that, and I'm catching up on some of the more well-thought critiques laid down here years ago.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#416 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:07 am

Revisited this for the first time since theatres, and my feelings have completely flipped toward the positive. I really liked the Swedish version in college and a few years later hated this colder, cleancut adaptation that felt diluted and frustrating in its minimization of characterization and elimination of shreds of warmth between characters found in the first film. However I now see these stylistic choices as supreme strengths, giving the material and characters exactly what they deserve, and I don’t mean that in a condescending way.

I get the posts in this thread that paint the story as journalistic detective fantasy but the ‘journalists-as-superheros’ is going a bit too far. Craig and Mara are both bland enough to destroy romanticism through their ordinary details. This may seem like a silly thing to say about Lisbeth but Mara plays her with an admirably restrained internalized performance that is all murky idiosyncrasies underneath a loud exterior. Fincher keeps the focus on the mystery after setting up the sparks that drive each character to be passionate about their work and lives, which seems to be one in the same. So watching Craig and Lisbeth, who have barely emerged from their banal shells except for reactionary emotions born from self-preservation (bankruptcy, coercion and sexual assault; oppressed positions robbing these people, whose blood runs on a liberated license to roam under the code of journalistic integrity, of their freedoms) finally coming alive and developing colors as they become excited about the process of discovery, is what this film is all about and where it beats the prior version‘s default into expanding character and dynamics.

Fincher’s sterile approach meets the characters where they are at, and like Zodiac he trusts that we can notice the subtleties of energies changing, enthusiasm growing, bonds forming. They get their pleasure from the work, and I read Lisbeth’s initiation of the first sexual encounter with Craig as a fusion of admiration for his genuine commitment to the work after the injury, and a blossoming sapiosexual attraction following his ‘impressive’ choice to dig into the parade angles (on top of the seizure of interpersonal control in power-dynamics and mechanical logic of the act giving pleasure, which feeds the trauma-reactivity and antisocial components of her character).

Fincher thrusts us through this narrative at such a rapid pace, with no time wasted on fleshing out complex characters, so that the dullness must coexist, and even inform, the spectacle and vibrancy of the mission. I loved this film, and respected it, so much more on this watch for allowing the complications in characterization (or relationship progression) to stay hidden like the narrative itself, only coming out into visible space in small doses when earned through actions of intelligence. Craig’s clumsiness and fear after following a lead in the last act is not that of a confident hero, but the willingness to follow it in the first place despite the risk is dignified action. This doesn’t translate to self-preservation and the successful catharsis that follows only happens through an affinity of intelligence and willingness by Lisbeth, by trusting her instincts and instincts alone.

The speech downstairs on how we “don’t trust our instincts” and make fallible mistakes against self-preservation based on social niceties is where Craig fails, but Lisbeth’s personality, and the arid atmosphere of the film, are the skill that actualizes results. The key is not a unidimensional omission of emotion, for Lisbeth opens up in the very next scene, just enough to show us a grey picture that refutes a simplified reading of character or uncharitable decree of the film’s philosophical stance.

Instead Fincher’s film gives permission for Lisbeth to keep her humanity and trust her instincts as mutually exclusive entities, not forcing her to either be a robot or a victim. In a sense Fincher destroys the stigma of antisocial personalities (in real life and in fictional stories) by carefully presenting us with one and gradually showing us that shades exist, without defaulting to traditional and easy methods to artificially draw a composite, which would undermine the film’s strategy. It’s a deceptively thin tonal exercise, where the vibe sneaks up on you to reveal something more robust. People can be and are more complex than we accredit them outside of spoonfeeding animated developmental transparency, which is a cinematic falsehood; and the enigmatic paradoxes of humanity exist primarily in the monotonous, which is anything but vapid. The juxtaposition of style and content to arrive here is risky, imbuing another contradiction as Fincher doesn’t play by some rules while strictly following others to arrive at something entirely opaque and thematically dense appearing as passable ornament.

nitin
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#417 Post by nitin » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:16 am

Your post is far more interesting to read than this movie is to watch for me. It's pretty competently made but I do think Fincher was hampered by the convoluted but not very interesting mystery plot (Zodiac in this regard is a good comparison piece since it did not have to resolve its plot) and without the OTT tone of Gone Girl, I find it a bit of a slog given it's length.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#418 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:06 pm

I don't disagree with any of that, and still don't think this is a great film, but it seems to be a more appropriate method to tell a cold story in a cold way than the 2009 film. If memory serves, the Swedish film grants more gravity to the mystery by meditating on the details and granting the case a lot of power. In Fincher's film a major complaint I had, that I also noticed this last watch, is that after the first breakthrough in going to the parade photos, all the subsequent journalist-detective reveals aren't given the space to impact us on their own, thus destroying any excitement we'd get from plot by aloofly presenting everything to us objectively without passion. So the forward momentum is strictly resigned to the narrative of the characters rather than the case, and it's watching the characters' eyes light up, their bodies move differently, and humanity emphasized in these moments that's of interest. Maybe the story just wasn't very interesting after I had seen it once, or perhaps my memory of the original is not accurate, but what drew me into liking Fincher's film this time was in such strong opposition to how I've been trained to enjoy these kinds of films and stories that it's hard to describe, and definitely makes sense that it took another revisit and some rope to acclimate to what (I believe) he is doing here. Having said all that, I agree that he dissects complex themes and attends to narrative better in both Zodiac and Gone Girl, by a country mile.

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#419 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm

When I think about this film I tend to think about its ending, and how it works even better now that there will never be another two films with this cast playing these characters.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#420 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:01 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm
When I think about this film I tend to think about its ending
Me too. I'm a little blown away by its ability to evince a bittersweetly crestfallen mood without slowing Fincher's typical momentum. Really lovely stuff.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#421 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:05 pm

That more downbeat ending rings so much more true than the 2009 film did with it's rather triumphant conclusion.

One thing which sticks in my craw a bit, and maybe could do with a bit more explanation, is Fincher saying on the commentary track that Lisbeth's sexuality is inherently tied to her stunted emotional growth. I can't remember the exact quote but that's an approximation of what he said. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't meant to suggest bisexuality is inherently an immature act, as he's not so prone to make such blanket statements.
Last edited by flyonthewall2983 on Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#422 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:08 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:05 pm
bisexuality is inherently an immature act
Who are you, my ex-wife? *straightens tie*

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#423 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:27 pm

I haven't listened to the commentary track, but I don't think that kind of broad comment is alluding to bisexuality. It seems to me that Lisbeth's social development has been quite traumatic and she's blocked herself off emotionally through defense mechanisms that are healthy in promoting her independence but unhealthy in allowing her to be vulnerable in connecting with other people or sharing her authentic self. Sexuality, not just from sexual trauma, seems to be an interpersonal intimacy that she just doesn't know what to do with, so she succumbs to sex with the help of drugs in a club, or initiates sex with Craig based on a blend of sapiosexual resolve and compassion for his injuries, which suggests an emotional connection yet she uses logic to explain it to him when he questions her antisocial pragmatic mounting without foreplay or flirtation.

And yes, the ending is perfectly in step with the rest of the film, not only in tone but pacing and construction/deconstruction of character. Now that the journalistic investigation is over, the vibrancy that fills their attraction has dissipated. However, the twist is that Lisbeth has emerged from her cocoon enough to be vulnerable with him outside of this practical working relationship, taking the time to prepare the jacket as a gesture that proves she's thinking about him when they're not together. So it's all the more soul-crushing that she finds evidence to directly support her deep-rooted defense mechanisms, reinforcing distrust when she was just beginning to face and progressively ascend them.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#424 Post by Monterey Jack » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:28 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:53 pm
When I think about this film I tend to think about its ending, and how it works even better now that there will never be another two films with this cast playing these characters.
Agreed. Considering how bloated and meandering the third book was, I'm glad we never got the "trilogy" Sony wanted. The first book had the "meat" of the series, and that shot of a crestfallen Lisbeth witnessing Mikael and his wife together is one of the best unexpected "bummer endings" in a piece of accessible popular filmmaking since The Last American Virgin.

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Re: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (David Fincher, 2011)

#425 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:29 pm

oh yeah wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:39 pm
Visually and in terms of the editing, the film, like Gone Girl and Social Network, shows Fincher getting better and better as he carves out his own style and evolves it further. I mean, he's been a distinct auteur since the 90s but I think there's clearly a switch of aesthetics between Panic Room and Zodiac (though I haven't seen Button, which seems like an outlier) -- and then the last three flicks, with their continuity of the wonderful Reznor/Ross scores and crisp RED-filmed image, seem to me very different from Se7en, The Game and Fight Club, more mature and complex in their play of images. I was just so drawn into this film; Fincher's fast-paced editing style is invigorating without ever being manic and unreadable, every shot carries a certain weight to it, it's just like a masterclass of cinema. And I'm a long time skeptic of the director, but recently I just can't avoid how brilliant the last few films have been in taking on a kind of new style of their own; information-packed, digitally shot treatises on the cruelty and double-crosses and traps of the modern world, scored by this perfectly, sometimes oddly upbeat electronic music which, in a way, recalls a new incarnation of all those Tangerine Dream-scored films in the late 70s/early 80s. The major-key uplift and chugging forward movement of the score goes perfectly with the tenor of the editing which is so relentless and scientifically exact. It's some of the most precise filmmaking out there.
Using the most technologically advanced techniques out there, to contrast the base human needs of his characters, is what's most appealing on a dramatic level to me about those three films. It's a dichotomy a few others have explored, but less explicitly so in serving the narrative. I don't think even Scorsese did much in these terms when it came to his application of digital technology on The Wolf of Wall Street or even The Irishman, which feel more experimental (not in a bad way, they are still great films for it) in these terms than just how comfortable Fincher is in using these new toys.

Reznor and Ross' work outside of their work with him is interesting enough in they aren't taking the most commercial stuff that comes their way (despite having a Disney movie coming up), but what appeals to their own sense of how to apply music to the material they are given to work with. Their work on the HBO Watchmen series for example is as daring and unconventional as ever for television. And with Fincher, and the work on those three films, have really established a new iconic director/composer relationship not seen for awhile.

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