2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

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colinr0380
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#51 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:41 pm

Watching the film again while it is on the television it was interesting to note that rather than the monolith only teaching aggression it also leads to the first act of premeditated murder following on from that dawning awareness among the group of apes exposed to the monolith's influence. I guess this is a satirical point in itself - that violence is a hallmark of human civilisation and even socialisation in a film sandwiched between Dr Strangelove on the one side and A Clockwork Orange on the other! (I like to think that Moonwatcher's gang of apes joining in and beating one of the other monkeys further after it has seemingly already been killed also might tie in with the mob mentality and bonding ritual of a shared crime that will later crop up with Alex and his gang of Droogs in A Clockwork Orange!)

To go back to Niale's point about HAL earlier, I think it is also interesting that the whole business of the failing AE-35 unit occurring after HAL raises questions about the mission and is rebuffed, and then the second trip leading to the coldly clinical death of Frank and the rest of the crew also feels as if it is suggesting not just that sentient artifiical intelligences can become dangerous when they have to weigh up human life versus the demands of their mission, but that they are also evolving and moving past their peers in a similar manner to the way Moonwatcher and his band of tool-wielding apes did earlier. But because HAL is a man-made creation, he is also inevitably embodying not just the brilliant pinnacle of advanced human technology but also all of the flaws of contradictory behaviour, paranoia and latent violence inherent in his own Creators (and I do think that I would agree that despite this HAL feels like the most sympathetic character in the film despite his murderous actions!).
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#52 Post by bamwc2 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:15 am

This might not be the best place to ask the question, but without a thread dedicated to the topic I'm not sure where else to put it. About six months ago I began collecting movie memorabilia (original posters, pressbooks, etc.). One of my biggest purchases so far is allegedly the original reel-to-reel master tape of Thus Spake Zarathustra used in 2001: A Space Odyssey. It came via an auction house with an immaculate record, but they admitted that they had not gone through the process of getting it authenticated. I would like to do that, however, with the entire sound department working on the film now dead, I'm unsure of where to go to get this done. Any ideas?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#53 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:36 am

Briefly, the recording used for the film is the Herbert von Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic recording released by Decca. It was previously released and Kubrick licensed it for the movie. For some reason, when MGM released the official soundtrack on LP, they reportedly used a recording by Karl Böhm and the Berlin Philharmonic.

With all that said, what you have may be a safety copy/dub of the actual first-generation recording. It's very possible that this was a dub sent by the record label to the film production and they worked off of that, but it's highly unlikely a classical record label would let a first-generation master escape their vaults. But even though it's not the recording's original master tape, for a collector, that may be fine - again, especially if the film production worked off a 1:1 safety (and again, presuming this is what you've got).

If you want to authenticate it, you'd need an archivist. Maybe a studio archivist?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#54 Post by djproject » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:01 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Watching the film again while it is on the television it was interesting to note that rather than the monolith only teaching aggression it also leads to the first act of premeditated murder following on from that dawning awareness among the group of apes exposed to the monolith's influence. I guess this is a satirical point in itself - that violence is a hallmark of human civilisation and even socialisation in a film sandwiched between Dr Strangelove on the one side and A Clockwork Orange on the other! (I like to think that Moonwatcher's gang of apes joining in and beating one of the other monkeys further after it has seemingly already been killed also might tie in with the mob mentality and bonding ritual of a shared crime that will later crop up with Alex and his gang of Droogs in A Clockwork Orange!)

To go back to Niale's point about HAL earlier, I think it is also interesting that the whole business of the failing AE-35 unit occurring after HAL raises questions about the mission and is rebuffed, and then the second trip leading to the coldly clinical death of Frank and the rest of the crew also feels as if it is suggesting not just that sentient artifiical intelligences can become dangerous when they have to weigh up human life versus the demands of their mission, but that they are also evolving and moving past their peers in a similar manner to the way Moonwatcher and his band of tool-wielding apes did earlier. But because HAL is a man-made creation, he is also inevitably embodying not just the brilliant pinnacle of advanced human technology but also all of the flaws of contradictory behaviour, paranoia and latent violence inherent in his own Creators (and I do think agree that despite this HAL feels like the most sympathetic character in the film despite his murderous actions!).
As 2001 has been called Nietzschean - in large part due to the "Introduction" from Richard Strauss's tone poem after Nietzsche's book serving as the de facto theme - there is a Nietzschean concept that can be found here: eternal recurrence. I noticed this when Floyd is chatting with the Russian scientists in the space station. The behavior exhibited by all parties show a subtext of suspicion. Obviously there is restraint (progress perhaps?) but it's a case where one tribe senses another tribe having something they possibly want, in this case information about the anomaly near Clavius. If it weren't for that restraint, the two would have fought for it much in the same way the apes fought for [living] space and water.

As far as HAL, I also sense an evolution on his part. And while I hadn't thought of it earlier, it does make sense to imply that the presence of the monolith would influence HAL much in the same way Moonwatcher was influenced by it two million years earlier. And it does make that the deaths he caused were motivated by survival as he sensed both Dave and Frank were going to disconnect him. As far as the AE-35 failure being a failure ... that could be anything at this point, though others have pondered this.

Then again, this is what makes it so fascinating, even after nearly fifty years.

By the way, is it safe to get it on Blu-ray yet? ;) =]

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#55 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:14 pm

djproject wrote: By the way, is it safe to get it on Blu-ray yet? ;) =]
The Warners Blu-ray is gorgeous; easily the best of their Kubrick home video releases. I wouldn't hold out for a deluxe version containing deleted footage, if that's what you mean, although the cut footage would be a nice addition to the inevitable 50th anniversary reissue in 2018.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#56 Post by djproject » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
djproject wrote: By the way, is it safe to get it on Blu-ray yet? ;) =]
The Warners Blu-ray is gorgeous; easily the best of their Kubrick home video releases. I wouldn't hold out for a deluxe version containing deleted footage, if that's what you mean, although the cut footage would be a nice addition to the inevitable 50th anniversary reissue in 2018.
Considering the way Warners celebrates their anniversaries, I'm not holding up for anything =]. (Though some kind of nod to the premiere cut would be nice.)

While it was asked facetiously, there was a seriousness to it as well. As this was a film shot in 65mm, the source quality should be second to none and especially in a film where there are noticeable details. Also given the way that digital presentations can do justice to 65mm (think Baraka or Playtime), the digital output should also be second to none. And again given how Warners can be very hit and miss with their presentations (I'm still holding out for A Clockwork Orange), you can understand why I'm hesitant. After all, there's a reason why I think of Stanley as a "cinematic father figure" ;) =]

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#57 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:53 pm

djproject wrote:...And again given how Warners can be very hit and miss with their presentations (I'm still holding out for A Clockwork Orange), you can understand why I'm hesitant.
I hear you. While your opinion may differ, I think the Warners transfer is excellent and appears to come from original 65mm elements. I saw a new 70mm print of this film screened in Toronto last November and the clarity and color were still not quite as strong as seen on the Blu-ray. By comparison, I agree that Warners' Blu-ray of A CLOCKWORK ORANGE is disappointing.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#58 Post by Moshrom » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:10 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
djproject wrote:...And again given how Warners can be very hit and miss with their presentations (I'm still holding out for A Clockwork Orange), you can understand why I'm hesitant.
I hear you. While your opinion may differ, I think the Warners transfer is excellent and appears to come from original 65mm elements.I saw a new 70mm print of this film screened in Toronto last November and the clarity and color were still not quite as strong as seen on the Blu-ray. By comparison, I agree that Warners' Blu-ray of A CLOCKWORK ORANGE is disappointing.
I attended a 70mm showing at the Bell Lightbox around Christmas and I thought it looked much better than the blu-ray. Colours were richer, and detail-wise it was simply gorgeous.

The biggest revelation, though, was perhaps the sound track: it sounded much more vibrant than the track on the blu-ray, with no traces of noise reduction -- exactly the sort of sound that the era's biggest musicals seem to have (The Sound of Music, West Side Story, etc. -- both sound no-noised on their respective BDs, but phenomenal on roadshow prints).

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#59 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:50 pm

The Blu-Ray is not bad at all, and honestly, it can be found for so cheap, why wait? Got mine brand-new on Amazon for $5, and if you're patient, it's pretty easy to get it for a similar price. Think of it as an indefinite rental. (Just to put that in perspective, I almost rented Defending Your Life in HD from Amazon for $3.99. Wound up buying the DVD instead.)

Having said that, the disc can look better. They started showing a DCP of 2001 around here a few years ago, and it was only 2k. The new Lawrence of Arabia restoration was scanned and I believe worked on in 6k, then made available in 4k DCP's (I think those numbers are right). They need to do that with 2001.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#60 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:01 am

Moshrom wrote:I attended a 70mm showing at the Bell Lightbox around Christmas and I thought it looked much better than the blu-ray. Colours were richer, and detail-wise it was simply gorgeous.

The biggest revelation, though, was perhaps the sound track: it sounded much more vibrant than the track on the blu-ray, with no traces of noise reduction -- exactly the sort of sound that the era's biggest musicals seem to have (The Sound of Music, West Side Story, etc. -- both sound no-noised on their respective BDs, but phenomenal on roadshow prints).
You're right about the soundtrack - as presented at the Bell Lightbox, the film sounded magnificent. I was saddened by some of the print damage and dirt seen in the reportedly brand-new 70mm print (the screening I attended was the first one for this particular print) which I assume were defects found on the elements used. The damage and dirt is not found on the Blu-ray image. However, I suppose it's unfair to compare the two. Projected 70mm film is special in its own way. I'll just say that I don't consider the visual experience to be compromised much by watching the current Blu-ray on a decent-sized screen at home.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#61 Post by bamwc2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:44 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into authentication over my Spring Break. In case anyone is wondering, here's the item that I was talking about. I'm very interested in memorabilia collecting, but since I'm only on a 1-year academic appointment have to take a break now.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#62 Post by goalieboy82 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:56 am

just watch 2001 last week. hope criterion puts it out on dvd someday.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#63 Post by barryconvex » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:28 am

...Though some kind of nod to the premiere cut would be nice....
does that footage still exist? i thought Kubrick burned all his unused outtakes etc...

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#64 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:23 am

barryconvex wrote:
...Though some kind of nod to the premiere cut would be nice....
does that footage still exist? i thought Kubrick burned all his unused outtakes etc...
Apparently, Douglas Trumbull revealed about four years ago that 17 minutes of cut footage had been discovered in a Kansas salt mine. This appears to correspond to the material excised from the premiere version. There are additional scenes that Kubrick deleted prior to the premiere version edit and I have no idea if those have survived.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#65 Post by Zot! » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:27 pm

goalieboy82 wrote:just watch 2001 last week. hope criterion puts it out on dvd someday.
Why wait for the fledgling DVD format to mature? you can pick it up on laserdisc today!

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#66 Post by swo17 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:40 pm

goalieboy82 wrote:just watch 2001 last week.
What you're asking me to do is impossible.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#67 Post by Zot! » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:07 pm

swo17 wrote:
goalieboy82 wrote:just watch 2001 last week.
What you're asking me to do is impossible.
You obviously haven't encountered any monoliths recently.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#68 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:19 pm

Image

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#69 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:01 pm

https://vimeo.com/44241842" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#71 Post by djproject » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:05 pm

So this is happening:
Somerville Theatre's (MA) official Facebook page wrote: The Somerville Theatre is thrilled to announce that it has commissioned a brand new 70mm print of Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey authorised by Warner Bros., to be newly created for our exclusive use. We anticipate receiving this print in time to help celebrate the 50th anniversary of Stanley Kubrick's science fiction masterpiece in 2018. Somerville Theatre has established itself as the premiere home of 70mm presentations in the Boston area, hosting the annual 70mm and Widescreen Festival each fall, and can now promise audiences the exclusive use of the ultimate film format presentation of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Known since its inception in the 1950s for its high-resolution picture quality, 70mm film showcases a sharpness and visual experience greater than possible with even the most modern digital cinema images. The format has experienced a resurgence in the last few years as groundbreaking filmmakers such as Christopher Nolan, Quentin Tarantino, and Paul Thomas Anderson have used 70mm and brought the epic film experience to a new generation.

With the opportunity to present this new 70mm print of 2001: A Space Odyssey in conjunction with Warner Bros., the Somerville Theatre has ensured that all generations of cinema enthusiasts in the Greater Boston area will continue to have the opportunity to see this remarkable movie in its native format.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#72 Post by beamish13 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:39 pm

That's great. The American Cinematheque in Los Angeles was gifted a new 70mm print of the film last year. I believe it's a multi-year loan that they must screen every few months.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#73 Post by matrixschmatrix » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:18 pm

Sommerville has been working really hard to push 70mm showings- they had a two week festival of them last year, and 2001 is the culmination of one this year, on October 1st. It's not my favorite theater in the Boston area- it's edged out by both the Brattle and the Harvard Film Archive- but it's a cool place with a balcony and an enormous screen, so it's really worth making an effort. They're showing 35 IB technicolor prints of both North by Northwest and Vertigo that same day, too.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#74 Post by lzx » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:21 am

Interesting. Warner must have been doing this all over the country then, since the Music Box also commissioned a new 70mm print and premiered it back in June.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#75 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Maybe this will lead to a new 4K transfer to be made in time for the 50th anniversary next year.

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