213 Richard III
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- Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:26 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
The fact that "Shakespeare" may not have written the plays in fact does indeed not do my argument any favors. But "Shakespeare", even if 'socially constructed', yet should be strictly confined to the words which we commonly call his, if we wish to use the reference with accuracy.
My argument remains, that if one wishes to call any film "Shakespeare's X", that it must have the words which we accept as Shakespeare's present within it, in such a way that a person with no familiarity with Shakespeare would apprehend those words that are considered to be Shakespeare's. This is uncontroversial - as anyone who would release a film entitled "Shakespeare's 'insert any name of Shakespeare play here' " would find, if she used NO WORDS AT ALL from Shakespeare's play in her dialogue. Using Shakespeare's words is so easily done with sound film that it's trivial: and it may be supplied by text intertitles in a silent film, or be indeed provided by live readers or by the post-production addition of the dialogue. But if the audience itself is asked to supply Shakespeare's words from memory, then that film (or indeed play, should a producer have the effrontery to produce a work of Shakespeare's, without using his words, and yet seek to retain the name of 'Shakespeare' on the marquee), whatever else may be said about it, is not Shakespeare's.
Shakespeare reduces to the words which he wrote: without the presence of those words, as appears to be the case with the 1912 silent "version" (judging from the clips I have linked to above), then it is NOT Shakespeare: it does not suffice to say, that I recall Shakespeare, whilst I watch; or that the film-maker claims that the actors seen were reciting the lines whilst filming and that you could if skilled lip-read along; or that the scenes convey the physical action of the play. Without the words, a shadow of Shakespeare, a ghost of Shakespeare: but no Shakespeare. If the audience cannot apprehend with their own senses the words used by Shakespeare, be they text or spoken, then the production may not be called "Shakespeare's", with accuracy.
Bodkins! Mayhap I have shaken my spear 'bout this point, too long.
My argument remains, that if one wishes to call any film "Shakespeare's X", that it must have the words which we accept as Shakespeare's present within it, in such a way that a person with no familiarity with Shakespeare would apprehend those words that are considered to be Shakespeare's. This is uncontroversial - as anyone who would release a film entitled "Shakespeare's 'insert any name of Shakespeare play here' " would find, if she used NO WORDS AT ALL from Shakespeare's play in her dialogue. Using Shakespeare's words is so easily done with sound film that it's trivial: and it may be supplied by text intertitles in a silent film, or be indeed provided by live readers or by the post-production addition of the dialogue. But if the audience itself is asked to supply Shakespeare's words from memory, then that film (or indeed play, should a producer have the effrontery to produce a work of Shakespeare's, without using his words, and yet seek to retain the name of 'Shakespeare' on the marquee), whatever else may be said about it, is not Shakespeare's.
Shakespeare reduces to the words which he wrote: without the presence of those words, as appears to be the case with the 1912 silent "version" (judging from the clips I have linked to above), then it is NOT Shakespeare: it does not suffice to say, that I recall Shakespeare, whilst I watch; or that the film-maker claims that the actors seen were reciting the lines whilst filming and that you could if skilled lip-read along; or that the scenes convey the physical action of the play. Without the words, a shadow of Shakespeare, a ghost of Shakespeare: but no Shakespeare. If the audience cannot apprehend with their own senses the words used by Shakespeare, be they text or spoken, then the production may not be called "Shakespeare's", with accuracy.
Bodkins! Mayhap I have shaken my spear 'bout this point, too long.
- kaujot
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:28 pm
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Re: 213 Richard III
As an aside, Bill Bryson's wonderfully funny (and short!) overview of Shakespeare has firmly convinced me that anyone claiming that Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare and wasn't the author of his plays is deluding himself/herself.
Edit: This is the book in question.
Edit: This is the book in question.
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- Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:26 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
I really do not want to seem like a rigid old cuss about this: I recommend that everyone read Shakespeare. If you won't listen to me about that, maybe these cute little guys will help to convince you to brush up your Shakespeare.
- jindianajonz
- Jindiana Jonz Abrams
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
Were there rumors that this film would be getting a blu-ray release soon, or am I misremembering things?
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
Confirmed by Criterion at the Wexner Center talk about 6 weeks ago
- triodelover
- Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
- Location: The hills of East Tennessee
Re: 213 Richard III
Was anything said about the other two Olivier Shakespeares?Gregory wrote:Confirmed by Criterion at the Wexner Center talk about 6 weeks ago
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
There's been a very nice Blu-ray of HENRY V out in the UK (ITV Studios) for 3 years, so I always figured that would be coming first from Criterion. Great that they confirmed RICHARD III (still no Blu-ray in the UK). They've also got to do BLIMP asap (same licensor).
- triodelover
- Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
- Location: The hills of East Tennessee
Re: 213 Richard III
I have the ITV Hamlet and it's quite good. I seem to remember that their Henry V got mixed reviews. Beaver had problems with the detail and the non-lossless audio, IIRC. Is that not the case?peerpee wrote:There's been a very nice Blu-ray of HENRY V out in the UK (ITV Studios) for 3 years, so I always figured that would be coming first from Criterion. Great that they confirmed RICHARD III (still no Blu-ray in the UK). They've also got to do BLIMP asap (same licensor).
Last edited by triodelover on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
I'm sure Criterion's encoding will be better, and they'll sort the audio out, but I saw the ITV Blu-ray of HENRY V this year (because it was 3 pounds) and was reasonably impressed!
- triodelover
- Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
- Location: The hills of East Tennessee
Re: 213 Richard III
I may look again at the ITV. If Crit replicates the color palette of their DVD release, I'm not sure that will balance out the other issues, assuming they improve over the ITV in those areas.peerpee wrote:I'm sure Criterion's encoding will be better, and they'll sort the audio out, but I saw the ITV Blu-ray of HENRY V this year (because it was 3 pounds) and was reasonably impressed!
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- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:36 am
Re: 213 Richard III
The Criterion BR of Richard III will probably sell well when it comes out soon, because the controversy regarding this king has been lately rekindled. Chances are high that the remains found underneath a Leicester car park are the king's. DNA test results are expected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-le ... e-20391935 to be published in mid January. I wonder if the BR will be delayed to include some extra related to the surprising discovery.
- MichaelB
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Re: 213 Richard III
It was a big story in Britain, but are that many people on the other side of the Atlantic really interested enough to make a significant commercial difference?
And the UK market is a write-off, not just because Criterion doesn't own the rights - their disc will be region-locked, and multi-region Blu-ray players are much less common than their DVD equivalents.
And the UK market is a write-off, not just because Criterion doesn't own the rights - their disc will be region-locked, and multi-region Blu-ray players are much less common than their DVD equivalents.
- jindianajonz
- Jindiana Jonz Abrams
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
I heard about it here in the states, but I wouldn't call it a big news story- it may have been at the top on google news for an hour or so.MichaelB wrote:It was a big story in Britain, but are that many people on the other side of the Atlantic really interested enough to make a significant commercial difference?
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: 213 Richard III
I saw the Film Foundation restoration of this at the NYFF this past October (a DCP projection), and it looked great. Some parts weren't as crisp as the others - this is because a good amount of footage was cut out of the film when it was re-released in subsequent years (forgot why - may have been for television broadcast) and they recovered much but not all of the original film negative for these missing bits. You'll be able to tell the difference, but otherwise, most of this should look fantastic on the Blu-Ray reissue. This was a VistaVision film and the density of the detail of course is excellent.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: 213 Richard III
so is the only thing that changed extras wise is the essay?
I guess this is also being rereleased on DVD because of the new restoration?
I guess this is also being rereleased on DVD because of the new restoration?
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- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:36 am
Re: 213 Richard III
Great news. Richard III is a marvelous film. Hopefully, interest in the CC upgrade (and sales) will be higher, at least in the US, when it comes out in April given the upcoming news about the DNA test results. It is strongly believed by many that the test will prove that the remains found under the Leicester parking lot are the king's. It is expected that the results will be announced in early February, but the announcement has already been postponed once.
And--responding to MichaelB--I would like to think that the upcoming media coverage will contribute to the commercial success of the upgrade at least among potential CC audience on this side of the pond (the US, that is).
And--responding to MichaelB--I would like to think that the upcoming media coverage will contribute to the commercial success of the upgrade at least among potential CC audience on this side of the pond (the US, that is).
- jbeall
- Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Atlanta-ish
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- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:36 am
Re: 213 Richard III
These news have made the headlines in the US (too). Good timing for the PR of the upcoming Criterion upgrade.
- Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
Yes, I wasn't planning to buy this, but now I'll get it plus 3-4 copies as gifts for friends and family.
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- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:48 am
Re: 213 Richard III
A friend has an inside source, and tells me there will likely be no change to the discs themselves as far as a featurette on the discovery of Richard III's remains. There is a chance, however, of the liner notes being updated, perhaps with a news article noting the discovery.
Either way, Richard III should get a nice shot in the arm on the heels of this news. Great, free PR for Criterion!
Either way, Richard III should get a nice shot in the arm on the heels of this news. Great, free PR for Criterion!
- Lemmy Caution
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 am
- Location: East of Shanghai
Re: 213 Richard III
The new cover?
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 213 Richard III
Get swimminghorses on the job. "RICHARD" in the first available Gothic font, the arms and spine as the "III".
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- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am
Re: 213 Richard III
I think that's the Repo Man cover.Lemmy Caution wrote:The new cover?
- Ashirg
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:10 am
- Location: Atlanta
Re: 213 Richard III
I'm surprised they don't have a facial reconstruction to go with the announcement. They reported to be working on it back in November. And it would also make great cover for upcoming Criterion.
- jindianajonz
- Jindiana Jonz Abrams
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm